New intercooler alternatives..

[Thomasio]

This is a little Photoshop montage for your viewing pleasure.

Two of the three photos are early prototypes, and details have been hidden to protect the guilty.

[Thomasio]

Originally Posted by 9and3

Wouldn't cooling the intake air (without a software update/upgrade) also have no long-lasting benefits?

Or perhaps my basis is just an internet rumor?

The intercooler / Aquamist / intercooler tube system is designed to keep your intake air temperatures cool, even under hard driving conditions.

It isn't making any more power than an Exige S with a cool intercooler... but it will make more power than an Exige S that is experiencing heat soak. The system prevents a car from losing power due to the rising intake air temperatures of a heat soaked intercooler.

On the other hand, the same system could be used in conjunction with an undersized supercharger pulley to produce more boost safely. In that case, I believe that you would want a special ECU tune from CharlieX to take advantage of the increased boost.

[9and3]

Originally Posted by Thomasio

The system prevents a car from losing power due to the rising intake air temperatures of a heat soaked intercooler.

Ahhh... Now I get it. Thanks!

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by LBC111

Never been a fan of this piece because it is not sectional, like the roof. Once installed, you cannot easily remove the hardtop.

You just take out the rear 2 screws and it comes off with the top... would take an additional 30 seconds... As long as my car doesn't leak the top is never coming off...

[dmh]

We have utilized wather/meth injection, triggered by boost, on more than a few Minis (Eaton M45 supercharger) that see track time. We find it necessary to retune the ecu to keep the a/f ratio optimal at high rpm/boost/load – especially with a supercharger under-drive pulley.

For those who drive on the track it is imperative that the tank doesn’t run dry. We found that the washer fluid reservoir is too small thus we utilize a 1 3/4 gallon reservoir with a dash dummy light.

[Thomasio]

Originally Posted by dmh

We have utilized wather/meth injection, triggered by boost, on more than a few Minis (Eaton M45 supercharger) that see track time. We find it necessary to retune the ecu to keep the a/f ratio optimal at high rpm/boost/load – especially with a supercharger under-drive pulley.

For those who drive on the track it is imperative that the tank doesn’t run dry. We found that the washer fluid reservoir is too small thus we utilize a 1 3/4 gallon reservoir with a dash dummy light.

Thanks for the information, I'd like to mention two points:
1) a boost-triggered system is only capable of an "on / off" function, therefore is not optimized. Below a certain rpm, the system is using too much H2O/meth, and above that rpm the system isn't using enough. That is why the Really Light Stuff(TM) water/meth injection system uses fuel injector duty cycle to meter the H2O/meth injection amount. This accomplishes two things: the H2O/meth lasts longer and the engine makes optimal power. No retune is necessary, unless you will be overboosting. With low concentrations of methanol (15% mehtanol / 85% H2O for example), the A/F ratio is not affected much. For a 50%/50% mix, tuning for A/F can *add* power, yes.
2) the ideal ratio of H2O/meth - to - gasoline is from 10% minimum to 15% maximum (for a 50/50 H2O/meth mix). Therefore, and to keep math simple, a 1 gallon reservoir of H2O/meth mix will be used in the amount of time that 10 gallons of gasoline are use *at wide open throttle*. The Lotus has a gas tank that is less than 10 gallons, and it would be impossible to drive at wide open throttle non-stop. A stock washer tank will last as long as a tank of gasoline for most driving conditions for the Elise / Exige. If it doesn't, then too much H2O/methanol is being used and would lead to a slight power loss.

[dmh]

Originally Posted by Thomasio

Thanks for the information, I'd like to mention two points:
1) a boost-triggered system is only capable of an "on / off" function, therefore is not optimized. Below a certain rpm, the system is using too much H2O/meth, and above that rpm the system isn't using enough. That is why the Really Light Stuff(TM) water/meth injection system uses fuel injector duty cycle to meter the H2O/meth injection amount. This accomplishes two things: the H2O/meth lasts longer and the engine makes optimal power. No retune is necessary, unless you will be overboosting. With low concentrations of methanol (15% mehtanol / 85% H2O for example), the A/F ratio is not affected much. For a 50%/50% mix, tuning for A/F can *add* power, yes.
2) the ideal ratio of H2O/meth - to - gasoline is from 10% minimum to 15% maximum (for a 50/50 H2O/meth mix). Therefore, and to keep math simple, a 1 gallon reservoir of H2O/meth mix will be used in the amount of time that 10 gallons of gasoline are use *at wide open throttle*. The Lotus has a gas tank that is less than 10 gallons, and it would be impossible to drive at wide open throttle non-stop. A stock washer tank will last as long as a tank of gasoline for most driving conditions for the Elise / Exige. If it doesn't, then too much H2O/methanol is being used and would lead to a slight power loss.

No argument here...just like many others who work with Eaton superchargers we use water/meth solutions when necessary...they are simple solutions anyone can buy and install...15 lb all in and full...just noting considerations...

The systems we use are mostly progressive...you will be over-boosting if a smaller pulley is used...headers tend to lean out the mixture...all it takes is for the a/f to be off just a bit in the open loop and...

Lotus racing cells are 18 gallons which allows for just one pit stop in a 90 minute enduro. Not forgetting to refill the system is just one more time consuming practice not to be forgotten. It’s one reason why they are more popular among street and track guys rather than racers.

With your kit are you planning on mounting the pump and reservoir in the trunk area?

[Eddie Haskell]

Originally Posted by wildwhl

Of course, the 2 pushers are inside the duct work. No pics of the additional inlets yet (in progress - playing with the kids on a sunny day and the 2 wheels that wanted to play in the dirt took precedence today).

Spal Fans - 5.2". PWM controller stashed under the intercooler brackets. Someone will ask - my guess is <5 lbs.

WW,
Nice work, I'll be curious on your results.

One question, did you "feddle" the opening and remove additional fiberglass to increase the air flow from the roof (between where the hardtop meets the rear clam)???

[Thomasio]

Originally Posted by dmh

With your kit are you planning on mounting the pump and reservoir in the trunk area?

The location allows for the pump to stay nice and cool, we will be posting photos before too long.

[Thomasio]

In response to those who have PM'd me and those who may be wondering, Really Light Stuff(TM) sells all of the components separately: CF full "big scoop" roof, glass full "big scoop" roof, a yet-to-be-revealed mohawk derivative, the high-capacity intercooler, the lightweight intercooler tubes, and the high performance water/methanol injection system. Each is designed to compliment the other, of course, but many people already have bits and pieces so each piece is available separately.

[Thomasio]

Really Light Stuff(TM) Intercooler: price announced.

Exige S Intercooler Upgrade (Cup - like)

[shay2nak]

Originally Posted by Thomasio

It isn't making any more power than an Exige S with a cool intercooler... but it will make more power than an Exige S that is experiencing heat soak. The system prevents a car from losing power due to the rising intake air temperatures of a heat soaked intercooler.

well if it will prevent heatsoak, doesn't that mean the air coming out of the IC is much cooler than stock config. Also, wouldn't this new system also lower IC exit temps even further when there would be no heatsoak? Seems as if you have a more efficient IC and liquid injection, you would be reducing the temps over the stock setup no matter what. And wouldn't this mean an increase in power because you're getting cooler/denser air into the engine? Just like ProAlloy A2W IC. That alone gave 20hp over stock. I'm not saying 20hp for RLS items, but seems you could gain a few at least... or is my thinking wrong?

[wildwhl]

Originally Posted by Eddie Haskell

WW,
Nice work, I'll be curious on your results.

One question, did you "feddle" the opening and remove additional fiberglass to increase the air flow from the roof (between where the hardtop meets the rear clam)???

Increase the intercooler efficiency of your S....

Beginning at post #37...many moons ago

WW

[ace996]

Originally Posted by Thomasio

1) a boost-triggered system is only capable of an "on / off" function, therefore is not optimized. -Thatis not true...the older systems were on/off but the current offerings from Coolingmist/Aquamist/Alkycontrol/Snow/etc are now progressive controllers that increase spray with increased boost, and are sometimes programable on the ramp-up of spray.
I am more a fan of the MAF voltage based controller than boost, though. And your use of the IDC is also a very good system when used correctly.Below a certain rpm, the system is using too much H2O/meth, and above that rpm the system isn't using enough. That is why the Really Light Stuff(TM) water/meth injection system uses fuel injector duty cycle to meter the H2O/meth injection amount. This accomplishes two things: the H2O/meth lasts longer and the engine makes optimal power. No retune is necessary, unless you will be overboosting. With low concentrations of methanol (15% mehtanol / 85% H2O for example), the A/F ratio is not affected much. For a 50%/50% mix, tuning for A/F can *add* power, yes.
2) the ideal ratio of H2O/meth - to - gasoline is from 10% minimum to 15% maximum (for a 50/50 H2O/meth mix). -depends on you goals. I go through more than 1 gallon of fluid (66meth/34water) in a 20minute session with my STI and use at least 5 gallons of fuel...about 20% of fueling from the W/I...and it's great.Therefore, and to keep math simple, a 1 gallon reservoir of H2O/meth mix will be used in the amount of time that 10 gallons of gasoline are use *at wide open throttle*. The Lotus has a gas tank that is less than 10 gallons, and it would be impossible to drive at wide open throttle non-stop. A stock washer tank will last as long as a tank of gasoline for most driving conditions for the Elise / Exige. If it doesn't, then too much H2O/methanol is being used and would lead to a slight power loss.If you areusing more than 5% fueling without tuning, then you're probably losing power. And if you are using a higher concentration of methanol, then you can easily go as high as 20% of fueling needs but NEED tuning to run properly. Remember, using 100% meth requires you to spray higher amounts than if you are mixing with water to achieve the same cooling/power increases...usually.

Be good,
TomK

[trompazo]

One of my projects over the winter was to deal with the intercooler situation.

THe project is now done, but I haven't tested it or tuned it yet.

What I did:

1. Shocos side scoop hose kit. I don't have any data to prove it provides more airflow that the stock scoop or bigger hardtop scoops, but I can't see how it can't. I completely sealed off all the side panels so all of the airflow into the side scoops goes directly into the intercooler (and, of course, the air filter). This solution is alot cheaper than the bigger roof scoops, I "think" it will provide more airflow, and it allows me to remove the hardtop for weight savings without worrying about airflow.

2. Labonte Progressive water/meth injection system with failsafe. I did alot of research on nozzle placement and I have used water/meth in many cars before. I finally settled with a dual nozzle setup. One small nozzle will go in the Throttle body before the supercharger and one much larger nozzle goes in the intercooler output end tank.

3. EFI ECU. The water injection failsafe will trigger an aux map so I can lean it out once the meth goes in and increase timing. The kit also does away with the stock IAT and a new one goes in right before intake manifold in the intercooler output pipe.


I kept the stock intercooler. I'd be interested in upgrading it as well, if it shows to be effective. But I think the biggest gains will be from increased airflow and water/meth injection.

[Thomasio]

"1) a boost-triggered system is only capable of an "on / off" function, therefore is not optimized. -Thatis not true...the older systems were on/off but the current offerings from Coolingmist/Aquamist/Alkycontrol/Snow/etc are now progressive controllers that increase spray with increased boost, and are sometimes programable on the ramp-up of spray.
I am more a fan of the MAF voltage based controller than boost, though. And your use of the IDC is also a very good system when used correctly."


The boost curve for the Eixge S is pretty flat, so using boost alone isn't going to give a good metering of water/methanol injection. That is why we use the injector duty cycle. Sure there are other ways, this is the one that works for this application.

[Thomasio]

Originally Posted by trompazo

I kept the stock intercooler. I'd be interested in upgrading it as well, if it shows to be effective. But I think the biggest gains will be from increased airflow and water/meth injection.

The RLS Intercooler sheds more heat, yes, but it also is less restrictive than the OEM intercooler and the Cup intercooler. At high RPM the intercooler creates a substantial restriction to airlflow, so improving the intercooler will benefit the throttle response, and supercharger efficiency (less parasitic loss).

[trompazo]

Originally Posted by Thomasio

The RLS Intercooler sheds more heat, yes, but it also is less restrictive than the OEM intercooler and the Cup intercooler. At high RPM the intercooler creates a substantial restriction to airlflow, so improving the intercooler will benefit the throttle response, and supercharger efficiency (less parasitic loss).

Whats the width and length of this new intercooler?

With the Shocos side scoop setup, the box would require any intercooler to be the same, although it could be thicker.

[Pestodude]

So, I'm assuming the stock Exige S Rubber boot that goes from the roof scoop to the intercooler (sorry, don't know what this is called) will not fit the RLS intercoooler, right? Do we have to buy a Cup boot or do you sell a replacement?
Are you planning to post comparison data of your system's efficasy vs the Pro Alloy system? Temps, etc?

[Thomasio]

Originally Posted by Pestodude

So, I'm assuming the stock Exige S Rubber boot that goes from the roof scoop to the intercooler (sorry, don't know what this is called) will not fit the RLS intercoooler, right? Do we have to buy a Cup boot or do you sell a replacement?
Are you planning to post comparison data of your system's efficasy vs the Pro Alloy system? Temps, etc?

Actually the stock Exige S rubber boot (roof duct - to - intercooler) will work with the RLS Intercooler.

I'm in line for dyno time, and currently performing data logging. Expect those results in a couple of weeks.