Really Light Stuff Intercooler

[Thomasio]

Originally Posted by Bgwillyelise

Heres a question.

What brand core are you using?

I chose Bell Intercoolers as the manufacturer: their intercoolers are second to none.

If someone wants to design and fab their own intercooler - to - engine mounting brackets, and also relocation bracket for the engine bay cover strut, I'm happy to sell an intercooler sans the accessories, PM me for price.

[exarkun1178]

Originally Posted by Bgwillyelise

Whos bashing?
I only see people letting everyone else know what the avg. I/C price is.

are you stating what the average inner cooler solutions is for lotus ?

this example's base is 1285..
lotus cup, 2100
lotus stock 1295(lotus garage)

so as far as i can tell the average inner cooler solution for this lotus application is 1560$$ far more then the average of a few hundred dollars you say is available. and this product is priced the lowest.....

good luck with your products!

[Mag]

Originally Posted by exarkun1178

are you stating what the average inner cooler solutions is for lotus ?

this example's base is 1285..
lotus cup, 2100
lotus stock 1295(lotus garage)

so as far as i can tell the average inner cooler solution for this lotus application is 1560$$ far more then the average of a few hundred dollars you say is available. and this product is priced the lowest.....

good luck with your products!

+1 compare apples with apples.

[LoathUS]

How were you about to make a bar and plate so light?

[perryeyges]

Originally Posted by Bgwillyelise

Whos bashing?
I only see people letting everyone else know what the avg. I/C price is. Also people stating their opinions on the price of this product.
I dont consider that bashing the seller. Im pretty sure everyone here enjoys and appreciates thomasio products.



Yes they all will be Bar-plate design.
No they wont be able to bolt right up. But its not that difficult nor expense to fab up some simple brackets.

Heres a question.

What brand core are you using?

Bgwillelise and Andrewgotanelise,
Just say "No thanks". Thomasio is welcome to ask the moon for his efforts.
If you would rather cobble something together to save $$ then go and do it.
I have sometimes done the same. You are right that it MIGHT work just as well. No need to fart on his post. The term is "Sidewalk superintendent" "I could do that for a lot less than that". Ok then do it and while you are at it factor in enough profit to make it worth your while. I think it is cool that someone is willing to put the time and effort into engineering a nice option for those that would rather just cut a check and have it delivered to their door.
Thomasio, Well done!

You should start your own post telling everyone how you were able to accomplish the same result for half the $$.. Cool!!

[apple_geek]

Originally Posted by Bgwillyelise

No they wont be able to bolt right up. But its not that difficult nor expense to fab up some simple brackets.

ask greddy how simple it is to make some brackets

[Bgwillyelise]

Originally Posted by Mag

+1 compare apples with apples.

I/C's are I/C's. Doesnt matter if its a lotus or a honda. And in this case its a toyota not a lotus.

So this is apples to apples.

[Mag]

Originally Posted by Bgwillyelise

Before i pay $1300.00 for random I/C that looks identical to a Cup I/C. Lots of dyno proven scenarios will have to be posted.

Other than "looks" there's a lot more to an IC as I'm sure you must realize. And unless we are engineers, it's not that easy to understand.

And note it doesn't make sense to ask a designer/engineer for every design detail. One, most potential buyers wouldnt be able to use the info for an educated decision anyways, we'll just end up thinking we are more clever than we really are. Two if every engineer was put under this kind of interrogation, I doubt they'd even bother (espcially those doing this more for fun rather than profit). Three, try asking Greddy, ARC, HKS, Lotus sport for their specs and doubt they'd return your call.

Even if Thomasio is making money over break even, is there something wrong with that? Shouldn't those who benefit reward others for their own benefit? Isn't this one of the core components for a healthy free market capitalist society? Personally I am grateful that small companies like RLS exist because I do not have the knowhow nor sources to do the same. Supporting him where I can makes more sense IMO.

"random"? RSL/Thomasio is a well known member of this community. A good person and an engineer. Just because a brand is established or globally marketed, doesn't make that product any more/less questiontionable.

And agreed, as with any other IC offering data support is useful, which RSL has stated, are coming. For air to air, I believe the only other IC scenerio is the CUP IC. For an IC with water/meth capabilities, I don't know of any other turn key solutions.

The point is this is a one man band, putting time and effort into R&D to offer a solution that costs less money than relevant bolt on systems. Give him a chance to show us before judgments are made.

Originally Posted by Bgwillyelise

And the above poster is right. $1300+ for an I/C of this size is a pretty much a lot on the high side.

Yes 1300+ taking the aggregate average of all street car ICs of this size (and no other variables) on the market does put this product in the top price quartile. So what?

Originally Posted by Bgwillyelise

A simple google search for Intercoolers and you would have a hard time finding any I/C that is more expensive than $1300.00. I bet we could contact Spearco and they would fabricate a Cup style I/C for cheaper. $800 or less range. The vast majority of I/C are 300-600 range. With the more expensive ones jumping to the $800 range.

Once again, what is the relevance of a "simple search"? Put investments where your words are and and this would be relevant. Contact Spearco and offer this community a sub 800 system.

Originally Posted by Bgwillyelise

$1300 is overpriced..

Unless you are simply comparing the price one can buy an IC for the sake of simply buying one... a meaningless excercise.

It's one thing to be inquisitive but this statement is unsubstantiated.

Originally Posted by Bgwillyelise

I/C's are I/C's. Doesnt matter if its a lotus or a honda. And in this case its a toyota not a lotus.

So this is apples to apples.

Thanks for stating the obvious.

I bought an IC for my nissan for 1500, but there were options out there for 1200. And even cheaper CHina/Taiwan made items. So what?

Compare the market demand for a lotus IC versus those for toyota, honda, nissan ... etc. Look at the economies of scale, look at total market size, consider that this is a product made by a man who loves/owns the particular car this product is for, and finally have the patience to wait for supporting data so that the opinions made are well thought out and fair.

[ocelot27]

^ I agree - this a bolt on solution - no modifications - all the hard work has been done already - it even hooks up to the factory cooling duct. By the time you get the right intercooler of this quality and TIG weld all the brackets on (if you even own a TIG welder) you looking at a big and expensive project. - john

[vyuen]

My opinion is if anyone is intending to bargain hunt for cheap parts and cheap solutions to problems then they should not be buying a Lotus. I think its commendable that someone like Thomasio is bringing to market solutions that work (though he still needs to back that up) and encouraging creativity.

[vyuen]

Originally Posted by Thomasio

Yes, with the engineering costs, prototyping costs, machinist costs, materials and labor for the brackets to make the intercooler bolt onto the engine, the engine bay cover strut relocation bracket, weeks of data logging, etc. the $1285 (non anodized) MSRP is meant to offset a portion of the development costs. Call Lotus up and price a Cup intercooler: $2100+ MSRP. And, the Lotus Cup intercooler won't bolt on to your engine without modification, nor will your engine bay cover strut clear the intercooler.

It is a team effort: I'm working with some of the best engineers in motorsports. An ex Ferrari F1 forced induction engineer, Mr. Gerhard Schruf, has spent more hours on this product than I could have expected.

Can you order a generic intercooler on the Internet for a few hundred less? I'm sure you could. Will it have the same build quality? Will it have the Exige-specific mounting brackets and the Exige-specific duct rail? Will it be bar and plate construction? Will it have the plug n' play Bosch IAT bung? Will it come with adapter brackets to bolt onto your engine? Will the strut on your engine bay cover clear your Internet intercooler?

If you have more time than money, I encourage you to develop your own kit.

The reality is that if people can't justify developing these solutions by recovering some of their expenses, they just won't bother making the effort.

A sincere thank-you to those who have supported my new products... you keep the wind in my sails.

What I'm really interested in is the relative performance of this solution against other available solutions such as liquid chargecooling. It may help you to clearly state the pros and cons of this solution, and where it may be better or worse in relation to other solutions. What I do not like about liquid chargecooling is the additional weight penalty, although thermally it may be a more stable solution. If your solution offers 80% of the benefits of a chargecooling solution I'm a surefire customer.

And are you logging data for both stationary and on-the-move situations? Im sure you're already doing this but it may be useful to log data for various situations. One of the biggest problems with our stock setup is the heatsoak when the car sits in traffic and heat builds up. How effective is the heat removal, how much does the ignition timing improve and how does that effect the power loss compared to a theoretical scenario of no intercooling limitations vs stock vs liquid chargecooling etc. etc. I realise this may be a lot of data to collect but having all this info would definitely seal your argument.

[twaszak1]

Thomasio....

[Bgwillyelise]

Originally Posted by Mag

+1 compare apples with apples.

Originally Posted by bgwillyelise

I/C's are I/C's. Doesnt matter if its a lotus or a honda. And in this case its a toyota not a lotus.

So this is apples to apples.

Originally Posted by Mag

Thanks for stating the obvious.
.

contradictive much.

The rest of your post sounds like a bunch of whining and crying to me.

Nobody said you couldnt blow your $1300 on his I/C. Thats your perogative.

IMO the money would not be well spent. Were dealing with toyota engines people. This isnt a ferrari, lambo, or any other of the sort. Our drivetrain sits in a toyota celica GTS. Everything that comes out for this Lotus has already been done and then some from the celica Tuners. The only issues we have to get around is making it fit.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Bgwillyelise

contradictive much.

The rest of your post sounds like a bunch of whining and crying to me.

Nobody said you couldnt blow your $1300 on his I/C. Thats your perogative.

IMO the money would not be well spent. Were dealing with toyota engines people. This isnt a ferrari, lambo, or any other of the sort. Our drivetrain sits in a toyota celica GTS. Everything that comes out for this Lotus has already been done and then some from the celica Tuners. The only issues we have to get around is making it fit.

Ok so figure out a solution and i will buy if from you, since it seems to be that easy. My checkbook is open and waiting

[Mag]

Originally Posted by Bgwillyelise

contradictive much.

The rest of your post sounds like a bunch of whining and crying to me.

Nobody said you couldnt blow your $1300 on his I/C. Thats your perogative.

IMO the money would not be well spent. Were dealing with toyota engines people. This isnt a ferrari, lambo, or any other of the sort. Our drivetrain sits in a toyota celica GTS. Everything that comes out for this Lotus has already been done and then some from the celica Tuners. The only issues we have to get around is making it fit.

Boo Hoo

Let's not play with words and interpretations. You were comparing prices. Prices are a function of economic factors ie apples. I'm not going to take away from this posting by further arguing with you. If I misunderstood what you said, my sincere apologies.

My point was to show support because I believe what RSL is trying to offer is a good thing. Doesn't matter what you or I feel, the data/real world testing will be the final judge.

[HoleInOne]

Originally Posted by Mag

My point was to show support because I believe what RSL is trying to offer is a good thing.

Who's RSL?

[Mag]

Originally Posted by HoleInOne

Who's RSL?

sorry typo, should be "RLS" - "really light stuff" aka Thomasio

[NomisR]

So what's the weight of this compared to stock?

[Smoky]

Dyno... If it's good, I may be in.

Would also like IAT temps before/after.

And would also like to see before/after dynos both comparing a just-warmed motor (ie. running cool) vs. a motor that has been running a bit (heat soaked) to see if the % temp increase across running time is impacted by the new intercooler. This data would not only help demonstrate the efficiency of the intercooler, it will help to weigh out the performance-per-dollar value of this mod vs something like going to a water cooled solution (which is much more expensive, but thermodynamically simpler and potentially more effective).

Pretty please. And thanks Thomasio.. your product offerings are impressive and I plan to leverage your quality designs when it comes time for my power-up mods.

[dma550]

So will this be available to fit the BWR SC soon ?