Really Light Stuff Intercooler

[Thomasio]

Again, Dynapack chassis dynomometer. Rear wheel horsepower. Same disclaimer re: add 10% to get to DynaJet #'s.

2007 Exige S. This time, stock intercooler versus rls Intercooler plus rls 3.1" pulley:

[keepitreal]

posted on "that other site" by the one whose name may not be spoken:


Re: Intercoolers & heatexchangers
by ronin on Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:39 pm

...."News flash".....I hear from a "racer" that the RLS intercoolers are 1.5sec. a lap slower than the stock cup car intercoolers......discharge temps are the same, so it might be due to the pressure drop being more than the cup car.....if you add volume you better turn up the boost and get a proper tune..........oh wait you can't get that yet..


You get what you pay for from RSL.........a realy light wallet....

[keepitreal]

Hmmm...

dmh
Registered User



Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 219
rls intercooler w/shroud & tubes
Practically new...only tested on track for a few hours...

rls intercooler with carbon fiber shroud, unfinished, sealed air gaps, MAP bung (with cut-out in bracket): $1300
rls intercooler tubes, unfinished, no bung: $200

[shay2nak]

i'm surprised that the stock duct fits the RLS IC (and Cup for that matter). How is that possible if those ICs are larger?

Are you making MKII IC's now? ...or how far back?


oh yeah...what's up with the torque scale on the dynos? LOL

[Mag]

i compared the MK2 RLS to the cup cooler in person and the outer dimensions are the same save the RLS one tapers post core on either side. But for the MK1 RLS, they should be very similar. Dunno about inside.
http://images34.fotki.com/v1193/phot...E2S2934-vi.jpg

[fzust]

Originally Posted by keepitreal

posted on "that other site" by the one whose name may not be spoken:


Re: Intercoolers & heatexchangers
by ronin on Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:39 pm

...."News flash".....I hear from a "racer" that the RLS intercoolers are 1.5sec. a lap slower than the stock cup car intercoolers......discharge temps are the same, so it might be due to the pressure drop being more than the cup car.....if you add volume you better turn up the boost and get a proper tune..........oh wait you can't get that yet..
....

Wow, that is an amazingly unintelligent thing to say.... Let me count the ways:

1. Mass-Air sensor measures mass i.e. number of atoms in a given volume of air being injested. Unless there is a hidden discharge port dumping air to atmosphere, the tune will be uneffected. There is no effect of "added volume" except potentially slightly softer throttle response from the additional intake volume. I imagine the extra DYNO PROVEN HP and torque compensates for that.

2. The larger pressure drop(if there is one) is from the air being cooled off more that the stock or cup IC. The air "mass" does not change. The ECU however will allow more timing and potentially leaner(more power) at lower intake air temps.

I would suggest that the dyno talks and the ronin "racer" BS walks.

[dmh]

For those interested in the "DYNO PROVEN HP and torque" of the rls intercooler I have a practically brand new setup for sale in the Parts Market section.

[keepitreal]

Originally Posted by fzust

Wow, that is an amazingly unintelligent thing to say.... Let me count the ways:

1. Mass-Air sensor measures mass i.e. number of atoms in a given volume of air being injested. Unless there is a hidden discharge port dumping air to atmosphere, the tune will be uneffected. There is no effect of "added volume" except potentially slightly softer throttle response from the additional intake volume. I imagine the extra DYNO PROVEN HP and torque compensates for that.

2. The larger pressure drop(if there is one) is from the air being cooled off more that the stock or cup IC. The air "mass" does not change. The ECU however will allow more timing and potentially leaner(more power) at lower intake air temps.

I would suggest that the dyno talks and the ronin "racer" BS walks.

Never the less, DMH ("Don" from the other site ) is selling his RLS which he just bought and his reason given here is "I have other intercoolers"...WTF??!!!

rls intercooler w/shroud & tubes


Read the last page and a half of this thread:

moremonkey.com • Login

Not trying to be a hater. Just that it's a big expense and someone here has used the product and is now selling it. And that person has, apparently, communicated an issue with the product to someone on the other forum. I think that, in the interest of full discloser, we should be able to hear what his experiences were. After all, he's a member of this forum as well.

Don?

[keepitreal]

Sorry, accidently posted the login link. Try this:

moremonkey.com • View topic - Intercoolers & heatexchangers

Read the last page and a half.

[dmh]

Originally Posted by keepitreal

Never the less, DMH ("Don" from the other site ) is selling his RLS which he just bought and his reason given here is "I have other intercoolers"...WTF??!!!

rls intercooler w/shroud & tubes


Read the last page and a half of this thread:

moremonkey.com • Login

Not trying to be a hater. Just that it's a big expense and someone here has used the product and is now selling it. And that person has, apparently, communicated an issue with the product to someone on the other forum. I think that, in the interest of full discloser, we should be able to hear what his experiences were. After all, he's a member of this forum as well.

Don?

Full disclosure: I'm going to water-to-air.
I do private testing. Thus, my results are rarely public. Some of my data is for sale however!
But really...my choice of intercooler matters to you because...

[keepitreal]

Originally Posted by dmh

But really...my choice of intercooler matters to you because...

Because I'm considering intercooler options and the basic concept of an internet forum is the free exchange of relevant information, opinions, and data. Why would you, as a member of this forum, who has real world experience and (apparently) testing of this product not share it with other members here but share it with those that, in turn, post it on another forum.
(Even though you want someone here to buy it from you)... Probably just answered my own question.

[keepitreal]

Originally Posted by dmh

For those interested in the "DYNO PROVEN HP and torque" of the rls intercooler I have a practically brand new setup for sale in the Parts Market section.

And the part of this post that you put in quotes certainly seems to drip with sarcasm so if you're willing to go that far, why not just tell us what your experience was?

[dmh]

Opinions and data can and many times are quite different. Keep that in mind going forward.

I have not publically disclosed any data on any forum regarding this intercooler. If you care for me to test products for you all you have to do is contract with me. I am not the Consumer Reports for Lotus.

The maker of the product has posted his dyno data for you to judge the product by. And how you read into what I write is up to you.

As I wrote, I am selling because I am going to a air-to-water intercooler. That's pretty much the end of the story.

[keepitreal]

Gotcha. It's too bad because you are, as far as I know, the only person, other than Thomasio who has tested this product. And you are an extremely credible source of information. And you have offered up your opinions on this forum before:

"Yes, Ferodo 2500 and Pagid Blue are good choices for all-around performance.
Ferodo 3000, Pagid Black and Grey/Gray , and Raybestos ST-43 are for more serious track use."

But not this time...As you said, end of story.

[dmh]

Originally Posted by keepitreal

Gotcha. It's too bad because you are, as far as I know, the only person, other than Thomasio who has tested this product. And you are an extremely credible source of information. And you have offered up your opinions on this forum before:

"Yes, Ferodo 2500 and Pagid Blue are good choices for all-around performance.
Ferodo 3000, Pagid Black and Grey/Gray , and Raybestos ST-43 are for more serious track use."

But not this time...As you said, end of story.

You seem to be confusing readily available public data about brake pads and private data concerning this intercooler. Maybe you could try harder to "keep it real?"

[keepitreal]

Originally Posted by dmh

You seem to be confusing readily available public data about brake pads and private data concerning this intercooler. Maybe you could try harder to "keep it real?"

It's not "readily available public DATA", it's your opinion about brake pads. Like this was your opinion about trailers:

"I can attest to the fact that there is no better trailer made than a Trailex. It's true, paddocks are full of them here in the northeast/midatlantic."

Bottomline...you are unwilling to give your opinion (to us) on this intercooler. That's your perogitive. But... It's not really "private data concerning this intercooler" if part of it's shown up, attributed to you on Monkeytuner.com.

I get it. I think we all get it.

[ZJChaser]

Originally Posted by keepitreal

It's not "readily available public DATA", it's your opinion about brake pads. Like this was your opinion about trailers:

"I can attest to the fact that there is no better trailer made than a Trailex. It's true, paddocks are full of them here in the northeast/midatlantic."

Bottomline...you are unwilling to give your opinion (to us) on this intercooler. That's your perogitive. But... It's not really "private data concerning this intercooler" if part of it's shown up, attributed to you on Monkeytuner.com.

I get it. I think we all get it.

He has empirical data which is different than an opinion, he chooses not to give out his test data.

[dmh]

Originally Posted by keepitreal

It's not "readily available public DATA", it's your opinion about brake pads. Like this was your opinion about trailers:

"I can attest to the fact that there is no better trailer made than a Trailex. It's true, paddocks are full of them here in the northeast/midatlantic."

Bottomline...you are unwilling to give your opinion (to us) on this intercooler. That's your perogitive. But... It's not really "private data concerning this intercooler" if part of it's shown up, attributed to you on Monkeytuner.com.

I get it. I think we all get it.

Brake pad data such as composition, intended usage, and coefficient of friction is public knowledge -- just read a catalog. How one chooses to use it is one’s own business.

Concerning trailers: When it comes to lightweight aluminum open trailers Trailex is the industry standard. Arguing otherwise is not realistic. My opinion is in line with the facts.

What you seem to conveniently dismiss in your posts is the difference from what has been attributed to me and what has been publicly written by me. These, of course, are two totally different subjects.

Furthermore, as I previously wrote, you seem to think because I post here that LT that I ought to be the Consumer Reports for your benefit. Your argument is that "it is a big expense." So to continue to drag this thread further down for the reading enjoyment of others why don't you use your same logic and explain my selling of the more expensive RAC wheels? After all, I did just buy them.

[charliex]

2. The larger pressure drop(if there is one) is from the air being cooled off more that the stock or cup IC. The air "mass" does not change. The ECU however will allow more timing and potentially leaner(more power) at lower intake air temps.

Not entirely correct, the ecu will retard less if the temperatures are lower than a set threshold, it will not add more spark, leaner also does not always mean more power, thats just one of those generalised sayings, its been well shown that power does not alter significantly once the AFR is in the general area, one or two points either direction, the fuel will also be adjusted based on IAT to compensate. In my testing we've found that making the car run richer than stock actually gets more power, the factory leaness is emissions related, not power.

[keepitreal]

Was totally prepared to let this go but I guess I have as bad a case of last-word-itis as you do.
You are correct, the (negative) comments about the RLS Intercooler on the other site were attributed to you, not posted by you. That is an important point. However, the spirit of a forum, philosophically, is to share information with your fellow enthusiasts/ members. No, you are not compelled to, but that's sort of the concept here. And when you stand on the principle "I'm not consumer reports for Lotus" at the same time that you're trying to unload said intercooler...I don't know, seems a little disingenous. But, your right, none the less.
Your RAC wheel analogy is not a good one imho. RAC Monolight wheels are a known, proven, widely used product from a major wheel manufacturer for which there is no lack of practical user knowledge. The RLS Intercooler is a new product being marketed by an individual and you are one of the first (if not the only) people to test it out. And, you are a respected racer, tech, and run a shop that sells products for our cars. It's only natural that those who are thinking about buying this product would be interested in your experiences.
You have chosen not to share those experiences. Period. End of discussion...I hope.