Really Light Stuff Intercooler

[Thomasio]

Originally Posted by cory1000

what about using the intercooler without your pulley?

+6.5% horsepower on the Exige S, stock ECU, stock intake, stock airfilter... stock.

[ZJChaser]

so in other words..... No, No, and 80. Thanks for answers to questions I didn't ask.

This heatsoak would be MUCH better represented with actual numbers. I'm also assuming that driving conditions were attempted to be simulated with significant air moving through the IC.

[Thomasio]

Originally Posted by ZJChaser

so in other words..... No, No, and 80. Thanks for answers to questions I didn't ask.

This heatsoak would be MUCH better represented with actual numbers. I'm also assuming that driving conditions were attempted to be simulated with significant air moving through the IC.

As I've pointed out, I don't have the data until I get it electronically from the dyno owner.

From memory, outlet temperatures with the stock intercooler were up in the 130 F range (worst case), and in the 90 F range with the rls Intercooler (worst case).

The test conditions were normalized for each run, and a fan was pointed at the rear of the engine bay and remained in place for every baseline run (stock intercooler) and every rls Intercooler run.

[cory1000]

Not stock...you said that you changed the pulley....what will the intercooler do WITHOUT changing the pulley?

Originally Posted by Thomasio

+6.5% horsepower on the Exige S, stock ECU, stock intake, stock airfilter... stock.

[Thomasio]

Originally Posted by cory1000

Not stock...you said that you changed the pulley....what will the intercooler do WITHOUT changing the pulley?

To be very clear: stock 2007 Exige S, plus rls Intercooler: +6.5% horsepower gain. Stock 2007 Exige S, plus rls Intercooler, plus rls 3.1" Pully: +14.5% horsepower total.

On the DynaPack chassis dyno, 202 horsepower at the wheels. Some say that this equates to 220 horsepower on a DynoJet dyno. I'd like to try with CharlieX 's Gotham tune.

[cory1000]

Gotcha, thanks!

Originally Posted by Thomasio

To be very clear: stock 2007 Exige S, plus rls Intercooler: +6.5% horsepower gain. Stock 2007 Exige S, plus rls Intercooler, plus rls 3.1" Pully: +14.5% horsepower total.

[ZJChaser]

Originally Posted by Thomasio

Why the hostility? As I've pointed out, I don't have the data until I get it electronically from the dyno owner.

From memory, outlet temperatures with the stock intercooler were up in the 130 F range (worst case), and in the 90 F range with the rls Intercooler (worst case).

The test conditions were normalized for each run, and a fan was pointed at the rear of the engine bay and remained in place for every baseline run (stock intercooler) and every rls Intercooler run.

No hostility implied. I really like the design of the intercooler and just want to know some info. What I dont like is when I ask whether you have actual temps and you start talking about the pully and WI. I have asked you via PM and in the thread a couple times about temps and never was it mentioned that you would ever have them. Normally those temps aren't parts of the dyno run so I figured they would be separate. I just wanted some actual data, I dont think its too much to ask for especially considering that that data I'm asking for is the primary job of the IC.

[Thomasio]

Originally Posted by ZJChaser

No hostility implied. I really like the design of the intercooler and just want to know some info. What I dont like is when I ask whether you have actual temps and you start talking about the pully and WI. I have asked you via PM and in the thread a couple times about temps and never was it mentioned that you would ever have them. Normally those temps aren't parts of the dyno run so I figured they would be separate. I just wanted some actual data, I dont think its too much to ask for especially considering that that data I'm asking for is the primary job of the IC.

I get ahead of myself answering all of the threads, that's all.

I'll post some graphs when the dyno data comes in.

[xeeeejme]

I'd be curious how much of the difference is due to just heat soak on the dyno. For example, is that the difference of the averages of the dyno readings between the two setups? Or is that the difference between the first run of each setup on the dyno?

I imagine that the heat soak for the engine running on the dyno (especially for the non-rls intercooler) is greater than if you're on the street in normal driving or on the track with greater air flow. So would the real world/track gain be less than the 26 HP stated?

[Sh4rkattk]

How does your strut that holds the lid up modified? Pics please

[Thomasio]

Originally Posted by xeeeejme

I'd be curious how much of the difference is due to just heat soak on the dyno. For example, is that the difference of the averages of the dyno readings between the two setups? Or is that the difference between the first run of each setup on the dyno?

I imagine that the heat soak for the engine running on the dyno (especially for the non-rls intercooler) is greater than if you're on the street in normal driving or on the track with greater air flow. So would the real world/track gain be less than the 26 HP stated?

That difference only gets greater with heat soak, because the stock intercooler heat soaks far worse and far faster. Results will be posted as soon as I get the data, that will show the trends better than I can describe. It was impressive.

[ocelot27]

I can back up the shocking stock heat soak issue on my 08 S 240. It was jaw-dropping how fast the stock intercooler soaked - IAT rose to over 140°F and WHP dropped by about a wopping 25WHP during three quick pulls. We pointed a fan at the engine bay and got an extra 19 WHP out of the stock IC for a best of 218.11WHP. The stock IC sucks monkey balls - that's the bottom line. I can't wait to get my RLS IC installed...





- john.

[ZJChaser]

hmm..another curiosity question, does the black anodizing have any effect on performance? Talking about the RLS unit.

[Smoky]

Originally Posted by ZJChaser

hmm..another curiosity question, does the black anodizing have any effect on performance? Talking about the RLS unit.

I would also want to get mine black anodized. Interested in this response.

[dmh]

Ocelot27-
Only 140 degrees. I see over 200 Without a proper dyno facility, one where you can control the environment, you are just wasting your time and money, i.e., the results are worthless.
See this page: DMH Motorsports

[ocelot27]

Originally Posted by ZJChaser

hmm..another curiosity question, does the black anodizing have any effect on performance? Talking about the RLS unit.

I would do clear - black absorbs considerable light energy (infrared) from both the sun and the engine and will heat up the IC even more on a sunny day or from a very hot engine - whether or not this is a SIGNIFICANT effect would need to be tested.
-john.

[ocelot27]

Originally Posted by dmh

Ocelot27-
Only 140 degrees. I see over 200 Without a proper dyno facility, one where you can control the environment, you are just wasting your time and money, i.e., the results are worthless.
See this page: DMH Motorsports

In your opinion. The facility I use has a brand spanking new DynoJet. None of us here, to my knowledge, have access to $250,000 dyno facilities used by well funded race teams.

The facility I use is climate controlled with AC and therefore the temp and relative humidity are relatively constant.

The results are not worthless and I'm not wasting my money. As long as all the runs are done under similar conditions valid conclusions can be drawn.

I have a degree in mechanical engineering and I know a thing or two about heat transfer. You've missed the point - the stock IC soaks very rapidly and would soak very rapidly in any dyno environment because it has a low heat capacity.

Lotus had design criteria which were reached by their engineers - that doesn't mean they can't be exceeded by other engineers with different design criteria.

If you don't want to be part of the experiment that's fine but don't tell us that the study is invalid when in fact it's very valid and very pertinent; the fact that a more massive IC can absorb much more heat does not need to be proven - it's a fact of heat transfer.

-john.

[dmh]

Originally Posted by ocelot27

In your opinion. The facility I use has a brand spanking new DynoJet. None of us here, to my knowledge, have access to $250,000 dyno facilities used by well funded race teams.

The facility I use is climate controlled with AC and therefore the temp and relative humidity are relatively constant.

The results are not worthless and I'm not wasting my money. As long as all the runs are done under similar conditions valid conclusions can be drawn.

I have a degree in mechanical engineering and I know a thing or two about heat transfer. You've missed the point - the stock IC soaks very rapidly and would soak very rapidly in any dyno environment because it has a low heat capacity.

Lotus had design criteria which were reached by their engineers - that doesn't mean they can't be exceeded by other engineers with different design criteria.

If you don't want to be part of the experiment that's fine but don't tell us that the study is invalid when in fact it's very valid and very pertinent; the fact that a more massive IC can absorb much more heat does not need to be proven - it's a fact of heat transfer.

-john.

John-
Well, maybe you ought to figure out who is out there. For one I am and I can tell you for certain that your information is inaccurate. Our dyno cost $250K Not to mention the facility. And in another facility down the road a colleague is building an engine dyno for race teams that he supplies engines to -- Grand AM & ALMS.
Similar conditions? Controlling all the variables -- are you sure? For if just one is off the data is invalid. Just one! Did you read the short essays on the web page? And if so, did you understand them?
No I have not missed the point...yes, the Bell intercooler is more massive by what, 20%? I've been waiting for mine for weeks now. But they will only work on the race track where air flow is sufficient to cool them. For the street why care about heat soak? Stop light to stop light Speed limit 70 MPH
This is what DMH Motorsports does. Want more information then call, email, or go to monkeytuner and ask me there.
Don

[ocelot27]

Originally Posted by dmh

John-
Well, maybe you ought to figure out who is out there. For one I am and I can tell you for certain that your information is inaccurate. Our dyno cost $250K Not to mention the facility. And in another facility down the road a colleague is building an engine dyno for race teams that he supplies engines to -- Grand AM & ALMS.
Similar conditions? Controlling all the variables -- are you sure? For if just one is off the data is invalid. Just one! Did you read the short essays on the web page? And if so, did you understand them?
No I have not missed the point...yes, the Bell intercooler is more massive by what, 20%? I've been waiting for mine for weeks now. But they will only work on the race track where air flow is sufficient to cool them. For the street why care about heat soak? Stop light to stop light Speed limit 70 MPH
This is what DMH Motorsports does. Want more information then call, email, or go to monkeytuner and ask me there.
Don

So how is my information inaccurate and how can you tell by looking at a plot that it is so - please elaborate? Do you know anything about the facility I tested at - maybe it's the same as yours?

I know you do this for a living which introduces a conflict of interest with a competing supplier - are your posts just biased by this? Yeah, if one condition is slightly different what is the real effect on the data acquisition - is it significant or within the standard deviation of the instrument? We all do the best we can with what we have available - if you'd like I can come to your facility and you can do the testing - I live in near Philly. But somehow I don't think that's the underlying issue here. Everyone jumps all over Thomas for not supplying "data" - he's working on it - lets give him a chance.

My data illustrates how fast the factory cooler soaks - do you dispute this? When I install the RLS cooler I hope the data will show that it doesn't soak as fast.

- john.

[dmh]

Originally Posted by ocelot27

So how is my information inaccurate and how can you tell by looking at a plot that it is so - please elaborate? Do you know anything about the facility I tested at - maybe it's the same as yours?

I know you do this for a living which introduces a conflict of interest with a competing supplier - are your posts just biased by this? Yeah, if one condition is slightly different what is the real effect on the data acquisition - is it significant or within the standard deviation of the instrument? We all do the best we can with what we have available - if you'd like I can come to your facility and you can do the testing - I live in near Philly. But somehow I don't think that's the underlying issue here. Everyone jumps all over Thomas for not supplying "data" - he's working on it - lets give him a chance.

My data illustrates how fast the factory cooler soaks - do you dispute this? When I install the RLS cooler I hope the data will show that it doesn't soak as fast.

- john.

If you were at my shop don't you think I would know it?

Your data is invalid because it is was not repeatable -- pull to pull.

Your IATs were way too low. What was it pull to pull? What was your oil temp? What was the torque on the tie down straps? Your tire pressure? Etc. Variables matter. Even more so on inertia style dynos.
Conflict? I don't sell intercoolers. And I'm trying to do business with RLS.

All of these type of intercoolers will heat soak. What is your point? Better yet, what was the point of your dyno pulls? Were you testing or tuning? Or simply seeing what your car made?

Hoping? Are you kidding Thomasio: "That difference only gets greater with heat soak, because the stock intercooler heat soaks far worse and far faster. Results will be posted as soon as I get the data, that will show the trends better than I can describe. It was impressive." Real world data rather than dyno data I hope.

I am all for helping but come on now...