Aftermarket headers

[MikeW]

Originally Posted by SweetDaddyD

You are the resident header promoter. Poster of dyno charts, etc.

And myth buster about the Lotus ecus.

[GTsRasta]

My arguments were mainly for why or why not a NA car won't physically gain hp from increasing VE, regardless of where in the powerband it is, and if it creates a lean enough condition to kill your car. Not a FI car.

They don't have the luxury of exchanging tunes as easily and as hassle free as NA tunes with different power adders. Hence, charlie's post.

In any case, I don't see any of that "ECU UNLEARNS THE NON-FORCEDFED XYZ RACE HEADER GAINS" crap anymore, and people are actually less reluctant to start modding, thus helping out the aftermarket. And I'm still convinced that the PPE Supercharger Race Header was the ticket for Dave to tune almost 250 whp out of his basically bolt on 3.2" pulley, standalone ECU tuned setup with no intercooler or water injection.

[Bavarian Motorist]

OK...I'm lost here. I have my PPE headers and am getting the BWR. I guess I'd like to eventually tune for my headers, but initially I'll be getting a generic tune.


I suppose this is a personal choice, but what to do?? Guess I could take my headers off and then put 'em on later when I'm ready for a tune???

[Randy Chase]

99% of the arguments were about the ECU relearning after intake mods. You are the one who keeps referring to header mods. Frankly, not many people here did header mods.

Originally Posted by GTsRasta

My arguments were mainly for why or why not a NA car won't physically gain hp from increasing VE, regardless of where in the powerband it is, and if it creates a lean enough condition to kill your car. Not a FI car.

They don't have the luxury of exchanging tunes as easily and as hassle free as NA tunes with different power adders. Hence, charlie's post.

In any case, I don't see any of that "ECU UNLEARNS THE NON-FORCEDFED XYZ RACE HEADER GAINS" crap anymore, and people are actually less reluctant to start modding, thus helping out the aftermarket. And I'm still convinced that the PPE Supercharger Race Header was the ticket for Dave to tune almost 250 whp out of his basically bolt on 3.2" pulley, standalone ECU tuned setup with no intercooler or water injection.

[charliex]

cold air intakes only upset the factory ecu if the MAF gets upset by being too close to the throttle body, wash, incorrect flow, not laminar flow, wrong tube size etc.

a correctly matched CAI will function, but like randy says there aren't many people with headers, there aren't that many CAI's that meet all the requirements, but some do.

sometimes even just rotating the maf sensor 90o will throw it off.

[Randy Chase]

Yep. We tested everyone available for the market in 2005. None gained power. Some lost a lot.

[Kris from DRS]

I was personally involved with testing a lot of these headers that didn't give any gains. If anything it shows how well the stock header works, which is mostly a good thing. From what I've learned with testing other engines the header is just one component in the system as a whole. About 8 yrs ago I did camshaft testing for European Car Mag and saw that some headers only work well with specific cam profiles, and conversely certain cam profiles had better results depending on header primary length and diameter.

We've recently been doing a lot of work with improving air-flow of the 2ZZ head. Revisiting some of the header testing may take place depending on what we find after more analysis.

Kris

[shay2nak]

if all the headers lose power...howcome FF always shows a large gain? I guess that's before the ECU learn function kicks in.

[Solo2Elise]

Originally Posted by shay2nak

if all the headers lose power...howcome FF always shows a large gain? I guess that's before the ECU learn function kicks in.

I have FF street header on. Casey did tell me that the hp gain is for a very short period. After ECU re-learning, it will drop. However I am not sure it drops back to stock hp or worse since I've never dynoed my car. Since I am putting the BWR S/C kit soon, I will find out that and post it later.

[GTsRasta]

I started off my breather mod thread just because jlitman and dustylax got ran off the forum for offering headers, yet forcedfed would offer headers and there wouldn't be any argument to their product making any gains. It just seemed ass backwards to me, especially since Bane is selling the exact same header jlitman was going to line up and make.

[Brent Bauman]

i do have the forcefed race header for my car, that when i get around to installing i will make a tune for, and my car is pretty much stock other than the gotham

Like I said, bring next time your down and I'll put on. Or I guess I'll just come out there. I want to finish up the other map anyway.

[Kris from DRS]

In all fairness to the guys making headers the SC cars and NA cars are going to haev different requirments to generate the desired power/ trq curve. I know there is all kinds of stuff being worked on recently.

[shay2nak]

well, i already know you can get ~20 hp out of headers with a proper tune, so even more of a bonus.

[MB SC Elise]

What about getting the stock headers ported & coated (if you're running an SC kit)? I would image that any realized HP gains (though probably small) would still require specific ECU adjustments, correct?

I've also been considering 2bular's SC header.... but after reading this thread I'm unsure...

[Red Mist]

Originally Posted by Randy Chase

We tested headers on my car years ago (naturally aspirated). Most lost power. Eventually I went with a ported stock header which seemed fine...then a stage 3 header from Lotus Sport.

Funny, this was the one thing I was told by Lotus guys when I first got my car... careful with the headers. They tuned for them. I was told this many times.

Randy, is the stage 3 header a shorty like the stock, I heard it was similar to the trial header from Japan.

[Randy Chase]

Yep

[shay2nak]

OK need advice...I'm picking up the 2B header and we all know sport cat has 2 bungs for O2 sensors. Do I have to have the bung on the header itself? I'm going to have the car retuned. I guess it would be OK without it. Only reason I've learned to have the bung on the header is to install a wideband.

[Trendy Exige]

Funny how I come across with this post now. You and Jamey were making fun of me about this with my car since I didn't have the wideband for the Saturday dyno @ LA Performance Division.

Originally Posted by charliex

if you don't have access to a wideband, don't mod your car j/k, pull the plugs and check for signs of detonation thats usually straightforward enough.

[funS111]

Here is my dyno
FF street header with highflow cat & Arqray single.

I am now running decat and a green filter. I have not dynoed this setup yet.

I was looking forward to getting the gotham in the winter but after reading this post im a little skeptical.

Any thoughts Charlie?

[funS111]

Bump!