*** Any VW/Audi 1.8T Engine users in here?

[INA]

Hey guys,
I am new here and I am looking for Lotus owners who currently have a 1.8T motor in there chassis.
If you are in here please show some hands and thanks for having me here!

[macdady2424]

I have one in my Audi

[Westrock]

As this is a predominantly North American user base, there are some things to consider that make this swap not as popular.

1. Very cost prohibitive as it would require alot of custom work.

2. Few (trust worthy) sources for parts and experience in this country.

3. Many people are still paying off the car, so a transplant of such proportion could be a major turn off. Versus in the UK and Europe where the general platform has been around for a decade or so.

4. Engine is not as available in North America as Europe as it wasn't a "native" engine in this country, and was usually used in what are considered marque brands.

5. Current options available using the stock Toyota engine that comes with car meet MOST owners desires. 250-300HP fits most owners desires and that is fairly straight forward to achieve with our engine.

6. I believe the 1.8T was only used up until 2005 when VW switched to the 2.0T. That would mean that under Federal emissions law, that the 2005 Elise would be the only car legally able to accept the engine.

[INA]

Originally Posted by Westrock

1. Very cost prohibitive as it would require alot of custom work..

Custom work such as?
Just the gearbox and engine mount adapters?

Originally Posted by Westrock

2. Few (trust worthy) sources for parts and experience in this country..

Source for conversion parts or sources for 1.8T parts?

Originally Posted by Westrock

3. Many people are still paying off the car, so a transplant of such proportion could be a major turn off. Versus in the UK and Europe where the general platform has been around for a decade or so..

Right

Originally Posted by Westrock

4. Engine is not as available in North America as Europe as it wasn't a "native" engine in this country, and was usually used in what are considered marque brands..

Oh my friend it is very much available.
1.8T Motor came to north america from 1997 until 2005 when VW changed the cylinder and upped the displacement to 2.0 but essentially it was still the same engine (with a few differences).

Originally Posted by Westrock

5. Current options available using the stock Toyota engine that comes with car meet MOST owners desires. 250-300HP fits most owners desires and that is fairly straight forward to achieve with our engine.

6. I believe the 1.8T was only used up until 2005 when VW switched to the 2.0T. That would mean that under Federal emissions law, that the 2005 Elise would be the only car legally able to accept the engine.

Right understood.

[...m...]

...i have the 1.8t in my turbobeetle - love the torque and gearbox and have wondered how nice it might feel street driving in my elise...i don't think it could match a boosted 2ZZ-GE, though...

[Icedog_16]

OP, I think that the point is it is cost-prohibitive to do such a thing when existing bolt-on superchargers and turbos can get you the desired power and without all of the hassle.

[fpitas]

Will the stock 1.8T (at least, stock internals) make more power than adding bolt-ons to the 2ZZ?

[KenRK]

The 1.8T in my 225 TT was about 400 crank hp with a custom tuned APR (Audi Performane Racing) stg 3+ kit when I sold it.

[fpitas]

Originally Posted by KenRK

The 1.8T in my 225 TT was about 400 crank hp with a custom tuned APR (Audi Performane Racing) stg 3+ kit when I sold it.

And that was on stock internals (pistons, rods etc.)? If so, not bad at all.

[Icedog_16]

Originally Posted by fpitas

Will the stock 1.8T (at least, stock internals) make more power than adding bolt-ons to the 2ZZ?

Not really, given that with an ECU flash you're in the 260hp range with the 225hp 1.8T engine. With the APR Stage 3+ KenRK mentioned you can make good power with the stock internals; but, that kit will run you about $9-10K when all is said and done. And then there's the cost of the conversion.

FWIW, I had a TT Roadster 225 (flash, intake, exhaust, Forge DV, and N75 race valve) and it was a bit laggy (stock, as well) - certainly moreso than the 2.0T is or the N54 engine in my 335i. That's one of the downsides of the lower compression of that engine. You get used to it, though.

[KenRK]

Originally Posted by fpitas

And that was on stock internals (pistons, rods etc.)? If so, not bad at all.

The kit on my car was installed after I popped the motor playing out at the Autobahn Country Club. Since everything was out we did Pauter billet riffle drilled rods as the motor was built as was suggested by APR if the car was to be tracked (and mine was tracked a ton!) but there are plenty of guys out there running the stage 3+ kit on the street with the stock internals of the 225 motor (which does have stronger internals to start with over the more commonly found 180 hp 1.8T motor)
The reliable kits for the 180 motor seem to max out in the 300ish range on pump fuel.

[cornbeef]

Originally Posted by fpitas

Will the stock 1.8T (at least, stock internals) make more power than adding bolt-ons to the 2ZZ?

i believe the tt engine can easily go to 300hp without too much effort or internal work

[fpitas]

Originally Posted by cornbeef

i believe the tt engine can easily go to 300hp without too much effort or internal work

Sure, but so can the 2ZZ.

It seems like the 1.8T might have been a good choice for Lotus to put in originally, but if you're willing to go to all the trouble and expense of an engine swap you may as well beef up the 2ZZ.

[Simba]

Cost prohibitive, and a royal PITA to fit into an Elise given the intake manifold design on the 2.0T. You'd have to fabricate a lot of custom parts, and at the end of the day would have a slightly larger engine with worse head flow and a lower reasonably achievable power platform than the 2ZZ has. I'm also pretty certain the 2.0T weighs considerably more than the 2ZZ.

Friend if mine has an A3-- I wouldn't want that engine in an Elise for love or money.

[...m...]

...either 1.8 litre motor seems to offer similar potential when built and boosted, but speaking from personal experience, the 2ZZ-GE's significantly cheaper to maintain, as least here in the 'states...

...which offers better durability when pushed to the limit, though, especially up around 300-400 HP?..given that the 2ZZ-GE's already at 190HP when naturally-aspirated while the 1.8T needs a small turbo to reach 150HP, i can't help but wonder if the latter might require a lot more boost to reach similar power, with all the associated responsiveness and durability issues that entails...

...which would offer more generous bottom-end torque?..it seems a bit of research is in order here...

[...m...]

...okay, i've just done a bit of googling - here are dyno comparisons of the 225HP 1.8T and the 220HP 2ZZ-GE SC...

Audi TT 1.8T 220


Lotus Elise 2ZZ-GE SC


...no suprise that the toyota is a lot more rev-happy, reaching its powerband about a thousand RPM later but carrying it fifteen hundred RPM further, too...of course, the dominant feature is the difference between turbocharger and supercharger torque curves - the former fairly peaky down low with a lot more on tap, but steadily tapering down until it drops off around 6750, the latter nice and flat but with nearly twenty percent less pull against the turbo's peak...

...the big question then is how broad a powerband do each offer, not in absolute RPM but in relative ranges?..the 1.8T offers 4K within starting at 2750, for a range of about 2.8X the speed at which one enters its powerband (20% of peak torque); the 2ZZ-GE revs across 5K starting at 3500, for a range of about 2.4X the speed at which one enters its powerband (13% of peak torque)...

...basically, this tells us that the 1.8T caters 15% better to lazy shifting, but the 2ZZ-GE SC offers 50% smoother throttle response in turn...really, though, neither of these are attributes of their respective motors per se, they're really just artifacts of a turbocharging versus supercharging - so we're back where we started, without a good authoritative comparison of each motor's capabilities...

...would someone else care to take a different tack on it?..

[macdady2424]

How much does the 1.8T weight? It looks a lot heavier with all the crap around it in my TT compared to my Toyota engine in my Elise.

[JnC]

Originally Posted by macdady2424

How much does the 1.8T weight?

Dunno, but I think it's an iron block.

[INA]

Originally Posted by fpitas

Will the stock 1.8T (at least, stock internals) make more power than adding bolt-ons to the 2ZZ?

Considering the 2ZZ-GE came in far FEWER vehicles than any 1.8T motor ever could I would say yes the tuning potential of the 1.8T is by far greater than any Toyota engine ever could be (even the 4A-GE).
We have cranked out over 600whp out of a 1.8T with no issues...

Originally Posted by cornbeef

i believe the tt engine can easily go to 300hp without too much effort or internal work

225bhp Audi TT motor is cast using a different block and internals.Some users have taken the stock internals to 440hp with no issues.Stock VW/Audi 1.8T block found in the more common chassis will take 300whp/380hp without needing connecting rod changes.

Originally Posted by JnC

Dunno, but I think it's an iron block.

It is iron block yes but the block itself weighs 42 lbs more than the aluminum counter parts.

[...m...]

Originally Posted by INA

It is iron block yes but the block itself weighs 42 lbs more than the aluminum counter parts.

...i'm not sure if you phrased that sentence with quite the meaning you intended - you do realise that fourty-odd pounds of additional weight is a bad thing, non?..

...some of the celica GTS folks have pulled 600 horsepower from their 2ZZ-GEs as well, built internals of course - i haven't seen one in person, but i imagine they must sound not unlike a screaming formula one motor...