HELP! I need some advise please-Monkey Wrench Racing concerns

[dereklburt]

I am a new member and I am not writing this to bash Monkey Wrench Racing but they put me in a real bad situation and right now I am VERY concerned. I just don't know what to do right now and I need some advise.
I bought a 2006 Elise with a Hass turbo kit on it and 7500 miles. Prior to purchasing the vehicle, I had talked to Monkey Wrench about it as it was not running right.

I got an excellent deal because of this as it was running rough at an idle and boost was turned down to 5psi for fear of detonation. They couldn't get it tuned right and just wanted to get rid of it. Anyway, Matt at M.W.R. said that the cars were difficult to tune due to the computers but they were confident that they could get it running right. So, immediately after purchasing it, I drove it right to M.W.R. so that they could tune it. That was on September 30th.

They told me that they would need the vehicle for a week or two at the time and set up an initial dyno session and complete inspection/evaluation of the engine. They were also reinstalling the boost controller, evaluating the condition and need for water injetion, and reinstalling my air fuel gage. The extimate was $725.

After talking to them they told me that the car didn't have any engine problems, it just was not tuned properly. They felt that they could probably get about 250whp out of the package by tuning and using a reflash in the computer. I was asking about the possibility of more horsepower in the future and with further talk, they mentioned that the manifold was restrictive and they might be able to use a manifold that they use for the Celica that would make a lot more power. Matt said they could have one made and with it, we were looking for around 280 to the wheels and he even mentioned that we could potentially get near 300 but we would just have to see with the tune. (Sounded great!) Matt told me initially around $200 for the manifold that I have to admit sounded very cheap. They also warned me that with that power the stock clutch would not hold if I in fact still had a stock clutch.

OK, here is my problem. Two weeks pass and nothing. I continue to get stalled with various excuses. They let me know that the manifold will be $625 plus install and I can figure about $775 for the ECU reflash. (I'm thinking well it was a far cry from the original figures but 280-300 rwhp and it will be worth it. It still seemed reasonable)

Nearing the end of October, now it has been coming up on a month that they have had my car. I am not happy and worried about winter coming as I live in Michigan. They have never called me to give me an update, I am always calling them trying to figure out what is going on. I am however trying to give them the benefit of the doubt as I am focusing on the end product (thinking it will be worth it right). Anyway, they tell me that the ONLY hold up is that they can not get in touch with the guy that they have program the computer as he moved his shop and "Fell out of contact". I later figure out that this is Charlie X that they are talking about (That is when I joined this forum). I also heard from some members warning me about past problems with M.W.R. which of course makes me more concerned.

Another week goes buy and they tell me that the car is almost ready, they are only waiting on the computer and once they get it, Matt tells me the car will be done in a couple days. They inform me that they sent out the computer on October 30th and it usually takes a week turn around. I am hoping to get it back for a Nov 8th auto cross, the last of the season. They tell me maybe, it just depends on what day they get the computer back but don't count on it. I think about it and call them back as they told me that the clutch will not stand up to this power. They initially said that we would know immediately if it still had the stock clutch as once they got it tuned, it would cause a stock clutch to slip.

After talking to them I decide that there is most likely a stock clutch and waiting to have one installed will only delay me getting my car back. I also decide to go ahead and go with a toyota LSD as they told me that it would save labor as long as they were installing the clutch. If they found that I already had a heavy duty clutch, they would just do the LSD and I could save on the clutch. Matt tells me that this will not delay me getting my car back as they were waiting on the computer anyway. I figure I might as well get it done because I would rather know that the clutch would hold the power than have it rip out the stock one, or with my luck, hold out temporarily and fail as I drive it home.

The next week, I decide to check in again so I could try to figure out and make plans to pick the car up. I was told they received the computer on Wednesday and my hopes were up for getting the car back in time for auto cross. Friday comes and I find out that Matt is not working but Gary tells me that the car is back together and most likely just needs to be tuned. He even mentions that Matt might be in over the weekend to do it and I could check up on Monday.

Monday-Nov 10th: I missed my autocross and the weather forcast is calling for snow next week. Now I am told by Matt that the car is not actully together as the manifold they had made will not fit. They also tell me that my manifold is cracked (They previously told me it was fine). He tells me that it will most likely take another week to have a new one made that will work for my car.

I got off the phone and thought about this for a minute. I then called him right back as I am now REALLY worried as I was told several different stories and none of them are adding up at this point. I am thinking to myself WHAT IN THE HECK IS GOING ON? Maybe they have messed up my car? Maybe they just haven't done a thing and are trying to make excuses?? I was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt as I figured they new what they were doing as evident by their shop cars. When I talked to Matt and ask him why the story keeps changing and why I would be told by Gary that the car was back together when it wasn't, Matt tells me that Gary was wrong and then gets smart with me as if was wrong for even questioning him. After all, it was him that told me that they were only waiting for the computer and failed to mention anything about the new manifold, telling me that it would be ready as soon as he received the computer and could tune it.

Matt then states, "we can put the car back the way it was when you brought it to us in a couple days and you can pick it up if you want"........Now I am thinking, wait a minute, they just installed a new clutch and LSD, I waited over a month and a half already, and I don't know what they did to my car. Would I get my same clutch? It couldn't be good that they removed it etc. They also now claim that my manifold is cracked and told me that I could blow my engine if it wasn't tuned right. In fact Matt tells me that he would rather put it back to stock then put it back like it was. I am very concerned and irritated at the apparent desception but I give in as they tell me that it should only be another week or so. I struggle with my decision but try to stay calm and hopeful. I am thinking that I am very disatisfied with the service but still figure that if they give me the results, it will be ok. And that brings me to today.

I get up today and I now have 4 inches of snow on the ground which means that I will now need a trailer to get the car home (it's 180miles away) and I will potentially not be able to drive it now to even see how it runs. I call them (because they have never called me) and Matt tells me that he has no idea when they can get the custom manifold as they just don't seem to be able to get their welder to do any. He tells me "I don't feel comfortable hanging onto your car anymore because I can't give you a completion date" He then reports that it is getting more uncomfortable the longer this goes on. "Maybe that is because you were not being upfront with me Matt?" He proceeds to then tell me that he can put it back together without the manifold and informes me it should run "alright, probably about the same power it was when you brought it here"

WHAAAT????? He was originally telling me that he thought he could get 250hp to the wheels out of my set up and now he is saying 200hp and reporting it will be about the same as when I brought it there. "It should run a little better, it just probably won't make much power" He then informs me that I could bring it back in the spring for a couple weeks and they could do the manifold then.

This is my problem now: I had a heavy duty clutch and LSD installed because I was told the clutch would be necessary (because I was now going to have 280whp..so I thought). I also read somewhere that the Hass kit was reporting 275whp out of their kit (I understand they had huge tuning issues but I also know that mine is now supposed to have a reprogrammed ECU that should solve that) Just because the manifold is more restrictive would not make it only put out just above stock horsepower like he is telling me. In fact, those were his words. He also tells me that even though the manifold is cracked "It isn't leaking or anything" (Again, his story seems to change).

What should I do? He tells me that he can have it together in two days once I let him know. He claims that he will tune it but not to expect much more power than stock. I didn't have the extra money to spend and now I have upgrades that were only done to handle the extra power that the car is not going to make. I would have never done that and only agreed as I was told the clutch would be required. I am also worried that they may have actually messed something up. Certainly, a well tuned Hass kit with a computer reprogram would put out more than just marginally more than stock. They even told me that the components actually looked pretty good. It has a good turbo and a nice size intercooler.

Now I question if it will even really have the ECU reflash. How would I know? I don't even really know for sure that they put the clutch and LSD in it. I have tried to give them the benefit of the doubt but now look where they have left me.

Suggestions?? I was even worried about writing this post for fear of retaliation with messing up my car. I just want it fixed and I was hopeful that they would just come through as promised and I could report to everyone that they were in fact good tuners and followed through. Believe me, I would love to follow up this post with a positive one and tell all of you that after this Matt made everything right.

It is just that up until this point in time, I seem to be getting jacked around. I am VERY worried and my anxiety is through the roof What should I do????

Thanks for your help
Derek

[charliex]

I did reflash an ecu for matt at monkeywrench for a car with a turbo , i presume its yours and i turned it around in a couple of days, you can check with an OBD II reader that has mode 9 information, it'll give you the firmware name, it'll either have my name, gotham or ronin.

from what i understand they were using my sc reflash + an emanage to trim it for the turbo, rather than use a base NA flash which isn't a good starting point. I did close shop for about 3 weeks while i moved, as i didn't want ecu's lying around or getting delayed.

[dereklburt]

That is good to know that you did a reflash. I think mine is the only car in the shop? I am sure it was for mine. That helps some, I just don't understand the rest of it. Maybe he will in fact be able to tune my car alright the way it is. I would certainly think that it would be able to be tuned a lot better than he recently made out. Before we even talked about a different manifold, he made it sound like he felt we could still get some pretty good power out of it.

It just seems like he is fed up with me or something. I have been calling back once a week but it has been there a long time and I have been getting different stories.
Derek

[Mr. Know]

I have found that you really need to visit any shop often to keep them on track. What you get over the phone is not always what's occurring in the garage. Hope it all falls into place for you.

[dereklburt]

I am sure that a free flowing manifold will help out with power and spool up but I certainly don't buy it that there is an 80-100whp difference. Again, I want everyone to know that currently Matt may truly be in a situation where they can not deliver with the custom manifold. I just don't understand why the explainations didn't add up. I am only concerned about the end result at this time and I want everyone to know that I was very hopeful that I could clear Monkey Wrench Racing's name with the forum. I also hope that I can write back and let everyone know that things worked out fine. Based on their shop vehicles and after talking to me, they convinced me that they were excellent tuners and I hope that rings true. I just don't understand why they are suddenly stating that the car may not be much different than when I brought it in. It was really not any faster than a stock car.

[charliex]

i'm sure it'll be something that can be figured out, there are only a handful of hass cars around that i know of, so it'd be unlikely there'd be two at mwr.

if for whatever reeason you can't get confirmation on it, but i'm sure it has and you will, you're more than welcome to send it to me and i'll confirm its ok, my contact details are in the link in my sig.

[dereklburt]

I forgot to mention. By starting this thread, I don't want to get people bashing Monkey Wrench. At this point, I am just concerned. After tuning my car may in fact produce good power and in that matter, they would have delivered as promised other than the timeline, which I can overlook. If that is the case, I will eventually seek a custom manifold and proceed from there. At this point, waiting is kind of irrelivant as I was only concerned about the snow and driving it home and it's too late for that. I worry that I will end up spending a ton of money and end up with a car that is just like it was when I brought it there as that was the way it was basically presented to me today.

Should I just wait? My girlfriend thinks I should just get it out of there, especially since he got snappy with me about putting it back the way it was. I feel the need to at least visit but they were not very open previously about me going into the shop at all, stating that they did not allow customers in the shop.

I guess part of my problem is that I just don't like having my car somewhere that I can't keep tabs on it. That of course is not Monkey Wrench's Fault. My issues probably seem worse to me as my vehicle is 3 hours away and I have to rely on what I am told over the phone.

[charliex]

I'd talk to them tomorrow, explain the issues and see if it can be resolved amicably, they're probably taking on a car with some issues if its seen a hass install, and it does take a while to get these cars right, its taken months to get some cars sorted, otherwise it can cost a fortune so its a balance between cost and time, obviously i can't speak specifically about yours since i don't know much about it, just general comments.

[dereklburt]

I completely understand if there are issues. The last thing I want is a vehice that doesn't run right. That is why I took it to them in the first place. In fact, if it wasn't for the confidence they provided me with, I would not have even purchased the vehicle.

I just want to be informed about what is really going on. I also don't want to cause any trouble for them, I am only interested in getting my car fixed right. Like I mentioned, the last thing I need is a vehicle that doesn't run right and I can't fix. That is why I wrote this thread as I have been concerned and I was not sure what to do.

However, the more I write, the more I think that I maybe should not have even written the post but I have been at a loss. Maybe today they were just trying to do what was right but it just didn't seem to come across that way. I want to be fair about it and hope that we can resolve this. Believe me, I am just worried. I waited almost 2 months after being told two weeks but I would rather wait another 2 months and have it right then end up with something I can't drive.

[charliex]

yeah its a sucky thing to be without the car and not know whats going to happen eventually, i'm sure they'll figure something out.

i'm working with another hass car that might be similar to yours, once i manage to get that one sorted out, (someone else who's been waiting a long time!), since i've already done one reflash for your car, i'm happy to redo it with that one if it needs it for no charge, i'll let mwr know its a possibility, see if it helps any.

i'd offer to fly out to indianna to help tune it there, but unfortunately i'm just buried with work right now, but i'm sure mwr can do something.

[dereklburt]

Thanks, I am hopeful that they will figure something out as well. As long as I know that it will get fixed eventually and there is hope that someone will be able to figure it out. I will not be driving it until spring now, I am just worried about it. If things do not come together at MWR, I may try to get in touch with you come spring and see what options I have. I appreciate your reply and help.

Also, what is your take on the manifold? If MWR can't make a custom manifold, I could always see about someone else making a custom one that flows better than the log style. Any thoughts on this? Do you see it as being that restrictive and a major limit on the power potential as that was what Matt was indicating. I know that eventually in a year or so, I want to drop the compression with forged pistons and look at tuning it to big power (400-450whp). That is the other bummer, I not only was hoping to get things right now but already told MWR that I was planning on future upgrades and was hopeful that I would be able to count on them for that as well. I know that some people do not agree with this power level but I am addicted to speed/power. What is your take on future upgrades with this setup?

[Patricko]

Originally Posted by dereklburt

I know that eventually in a year or so, I want to drop the compression with forged pistons and look at tuning it to big power (400-450whp). That is the other bummer, I not only was hoping to get things right now but already told MWR that I was planning on future upgrades and was hopeful that I would be able to count on them for that as well. I know that some people do not agree with this power level but I am addicted to speed/power. What is your take on future upgrades with this setup?

You might want to use the search function. It sounds like you are running before you can walk. Do you have any idea how much that will cost? Frank has spent well over $100K to get there

If you are not careful you may be doing a bunch of this and still not have a running car

[kestrel74]

Hmmm..

[kestrel74]

Auto Europe - Birmingham, Michigan's Lotus / Morgan / European Automobile Sales and Service Since 1965 - Home Talk to Tom in service. They may not want to get involved, but if they can help, they will.

[fishguy]

Originally Posted by dereklburt

the more I write, the more I think that I maybe should not have even written the post.

you do know that by merely posting you basically 'threw them under the bus".
the last thing any business needs is for their dealings to be made an issue on a public forum.

it seems that all the HASS cars have been cursed, and are a huge pain in the owners arse.

Just push the car off a cliff, walk away, and file an insurance claim

[dereklburt]

[quote=fishguy;1155463]you do know that by merely posting you basically 'threw them under the bus".
the last thing any business needs is for their dealings to be made an issue on a public forum.

Well, you are right about this and that is why I said that I kind of regret writing this post. The thing of it is, I was looking forward to writing about how they took care of me and now my car was running great. In the midst of all of my dealings, someone made a comment about them and brought a former posting to my attention. I really did not worry about it as I felt that they new what they were doing and couldn't wait to spread the word that my car was now running great due to them. I was honestly really going to try to spread the word to everyone as I believed in their ability. I would still like to write that posting and will if they come through with things but they really need to work on their customer relations if they ever want to really succeed as a business.

They have not talked about any other issues that would pertain to it being a HASS kit. People refer to the kits being all bad but they mentioned that it was one of the later kits and by that time they fixed most of the problems. I have not heard about any complications that have to do with the kit itself other than them mentioning that the log style manifold was restrictive.

Basically they told me that they were having problems getting a computer and everything else was set and together. Then the story changed. All they had to do was be upfront with thiings. That is why I was sooo freaked out and still am. I can't help but think the worst, especially when he essentially threatened to put my car back to the way it was when I questioned him on his inconsistencies. Instead of getting nasty, he could have been understanding of my concerns and put my mind at ease. I was scared sh#tless. I never once yelled or got irate but meirly asked what was going on and why he would tell me one thing insinuating that the manifold was on and it was ready to tune once they received the computer, and then change his story.

If he had acknowledged my worries and potentially offered to have me stop over to check out the progress and see what was going on (I might not have even gone), it would have made a world of difference in how I feel and this post would have never existed.

If they truly are running into different difficulties, an occasional phone call to update me on progress and what was going on would have solved everything and my frustrations. I feel a little bad about writing the post now but they should learn how to deal with customers and this type of thing would not happen. At this point in time, I am not critical of their abilities but of their service and it worries me and placed me in a bad situation that I did not count on. Well, they are also now saying that they can only get 200hp when before we even talked about the manifold they were thinking around 250whp? I don't know??

The guys at MWR may be the best tuners in the business (Believe me, I hope they are) and the best for the task at hand. They do have a MR2 making over 500whp and a Celica that does over 140mph in the 1/4 mile! However, they sure have not instilled a lot of trust lately and as a result I am Very worried. I still don't know what I should do.

[chotto]

1FASTMX5's Monkey Wrench Racing Turbo Nightmare

Have you read this post? I really wish MWR would stay away from Lotus' at this point.

[dereklburt]

Yes, someone pointed out that thread before and I really was not trying to get something going against MWR. I was just looking for advice on the situation and wondering if there was anyone else that could do the same thing if they don't follow through. In the previous thread I read later that the car was being used as a test bed to develop a system that they had never done before (their first shot at things). It did concern me a little after reading as it must have been horrible for the owner but I guess I figured it was an entirely different situation.

I already had a complete system that just needed tuning and they had a couple years of working on the Lotus to figure things out. They sure seem to know how to tune Celicas and MR2s. Matt did tell me that without a computer reflash or stand alone, the car would never run right. However, I do notice that he noted similar difficulties with the customer service.

At least mine was running decent beforehand, just not idleing real smooth or pulling very well. No knocks, no smoke, and the engine intact. It sounds as if the car in the video experienced some serious detonation. I had a built Dodge turbo in the past and that was what it sounded like when I blew a piston after detonation with too much boost.

[fishguy]

Originally Posted by dereklburt

The guys at MWR may be the best tuners in the business (Believe me, I hope they are) and the best for the task at hand.

sounds to me from the reading that charlieX is the tuner,
they are doing the installation of stuff.


another HASS car bringing joy to its owner.

its does make for good reading though.
best of luck

[kverges]

I have a Haas turbo on an '05 and while it was a pain, it now runs just fine (with many changes and my own tune on the eManage that Haas did not do, but I will gladly share with anyone that wants it as a starting point). I have never worked on an '06, so there may be other ECU issues in working with an eManage. I also did 3 Haas installs and they all ran fine; I in fact bought one from the former owner and when trying to resell it had to pull the turbo, not because it did not run, but because the Haas-bashing ruined the value. Those parts will in many respects be on my track car. The other Haas car I did still runs fine.

I really do think there were fundamental problems in the installations and tunes of the other cars, one of which (I think) was not being careful about tuning in closed loop. I have made many posts in detail about how to tune with a piggyback, and won't repeat it here, but if MWR does not really know how to tune and prevent the adaptive numbers from changing with the piggyback then I think you will never get it right.

I really think Charlie knows what he is doing, but I don't know exactly what he is doing and I am too much a DIY guy to have used his turnkey solutions. I do wonder how a turbo tune can be done without positive MAP input, but I bet he has a clever way to deal with that. One nice thing about the eManage is that you can add a MAP sensor and actually tune a map that has boost pressure on it and thereby alter fuel and spark timing, two critical issues with positive manifld pressure that (unlike a SC) is not entirely predictable with RPM.