My FF Exige S engine expired yesterday...

[2-Y-CHROMOSOMES]

Originally Posted by robains

2-Y, thanks for the offer, much appreciated, but most likely I'll have my buddy follow me with his truck -- worse case would be tow rope on back roads. I don't wanna do trailer if I can avoid it, but I might not be able to. Dropping car off 11am Sat.

A truck is way better than another Lotus.
Where is turbophils tow bar when you need it

[turbophil]

Originally Posted by 2-Y-CHROMOSOMES

Where is turbophils tow bar when you need it

Ha, I was just thinking that. Imagine a Lotus towing another Lotus to the shop

-PV

[elise/europa]

I will also recommend the ARP studs. The torquing procedure is more like a stretching bolt procedure, reach that torque, and turn 1/4 turn, and another 1/4 turn. If you don't buy ARP stud, I think you should use new bolt since they are stretched.

Other than that, straight forward job.

Originally Posted by Kris from DRS

Rob, Snap-On has a deep narrow 12 pt socket that will help make the job easier.

You can use the stock Toyota headgasket.

I also recommned using the OEM Toyota coolant.

We have ARP studs if you decide to go that route.

I recommend also doing a leak-down test before you remove the head. If you remove the cams prior to the leak-down test the results will be less fallible too.

Kris

[Kris from DRS]

Originally Posted by elise/europa

I will also recommend the ARP studs. The torquing procedure is more like a stretching bolt procedure, reach that torque, and turn 1/4 turn, and another 1/4 turn. If you don't buy ARP stud, I think you should use new bolt since they are stretched.

Other than that, straight forward job.

The ARP studs we use are undercut and do not require stretch. Simply torque to 60 lbs/ft. I recommend doing this in 20 lbs/ft intervals (3 steps total) in the sequence, start in the center and work your way outside. Always use the ARP moly grease on both sides of the washer and on the threads for the nut, only use clean 30W oil on the threads into the block (hand tight the studs into the block).

Kris

[robains]

Thanks for all the support folks, it IS much appreciated.

Will see what happens at FF and take it from there.

Rob.

P.S. ARP's and head gasket just arrived at my door today.

[CK_lotus]

Keep us updated of your progress. A regular picture diary would be nice!! Goodluck.

[John]

Rob - just saw this post. I'm not sure if I told you or not, but when we were at BW, you were burning a lot of oil there too. So this problem that you experienced has been resident for some time...

[robains]

John, blue or black smoke? My friend at BW said it was black (fuel) not blue (oil). It's now blue.

I didn't have any catch cans at BW, I installed them for Thunderhill -- this should have helped reduce the amount of oil going back into the intake.

As far as how long it has been pushing out black smoke, I have no idea -- FF install was about mile 1200, it has 8000+ miles now and out of those 6800 miles, only 50 miles were on track.

Anyway, hopefully this will get sorted soon and I can get back on track

[NMRJock]

Your driving looked great. Really smooth. I'm really sorry to hear about your motor. Your car looked really fast before it let go. For the first four minutes I thought your post was just a trick to make me want a supercharger even more.

[John]

Originally Posted by robains

John, blue or black smoke? My friend at BW said it was black (fuel) not blue (oil). It's now blue.

I didn't have any catch cans at BW, I installed them for Thunderhill -- this should have helped reduce the amount of oil going back into the intake.

If I remember correctly, it was blackish blue - so it wasn't just you being rich. I especially noticed it coming up behind you in T2/T3...

I doubt it simple oil blowback, as I had a ton of that before (Magnuson commented that the inside of my blower was one of the messiest he'd seen), but never (as far as I know) had any noticable smoke out the tail...

Either way - hope you have it remedied soon so we can get you back out on track!

[robains]

Paul,

Probably smooth because I was NOT pushing the car at all, about 7/10ths. ButtonWillow had introduced some rear end oversteer that I need to flush out of my head. Don't fear FI -- sure FI requires a little more "engine work" but they can be made to last a reasonable amount of time.

John,

All roads seem to be pointing to piston rings (and/or piston) as I've been told valve seals on these cars are pretty top notch. Just have to wait and see. I wanna be back on track soon also, 17 laps total for 3 track days just isn't much time for me to learn the car.

Rob.

[John]

Originally Posted by robains

John,

All roads seem to be pointing to piston rings (and/or piston) as I've been told valve seals on these cars are pretty top notch. Just have to wait and see. I wanna be back on track soon also, 17 laps total for 3 track days just isn't much time for me to learn the car.

Rob.

I hear ya - between body shop repair from 2 different negligent drivers and two terminal failures (S/C at the BW LCS#2 then the ECU at the WSIR LCS #4 events) at the track, I've only had the car fully operational for 5.5 months out of 16 months of ownership. But those terminal failures are unfortunately the virtues of buying a modified vehicle... just remember, stock is good (albeit a bit mundane and boring).

[robains]

John,

Funny you should mention stock. My friend Steve (he was my pit support at LCS BW) has been running his 99 Mustang Cobra (4.6 DOHC) that puts out only 290 whp since 1999 and has 50K miles on it with at least 80-100 track events, drives the car to/from each event and has never had a single engine issue.

His suspension is highly modified (Griggs Racing) but his engine is bone stickin' stock!! It just keeps on going and going and going -- of course it's NA so that helps, but still -- it's amazing how well his motor has held up (and he doesn't even take care of the motor either, changes oil whenever, still on original spark plugs, stock oil pan).

And before you folks thinks he grannies the car, BW #13 in 2:00 flat, so he ain't slow even in a 3400 lb car (it's amazing what a good suspension can do even in a Mustang). He basically invested all his money in tires and suspension and left the motor alone.

Agree, modified vehicles do tend to fail more rapidly, it's just a matter of how quickly they will fail -- if one can get some "duration" out of the modification then it can be worth the trouble, if not, then it just becomes a waste of money and time. Speaking of which, has anyone tried to drop a Honda S2000 motor into the Lotus?

Uh-oh, you got some contact?

Rob.

[turbophil]

Originally Posted by John

I hear ya - between body shop repair from 2 different negligent drivers and two terminal failures (S/C at the BW LCS#2 then the ECU at the WSIR LCS #4 events) at the track, I've only had the car fully operational for 5.5 months out of 16 months of ownership. But those terminal failures are unfortunately the virtues of buying a modified vehicle... just remember, stock is good (albeit a bit mundane and boring).

Good Grief, John

I had no idea you've had that bad of luck

Sorry to hear about all that. I thought I had bad luck with that broken valve. I realize that it could have been much worse as I read some of these stories...

Best of Luck going forward!

Phil

[Rei]

Think of this as a good thing now you can "justify" an engine rebuild. It just always made me uncomfortable that Lotus didn't do much internal work when they slapped on a the SC.

[robains]

Rei,

Unfortunately I've gone thru many "engine builds" - not specifically my Lotus, but other street and race cars. Some I did myself, others were by racing shops, some very expensive, some very cheap. The engine that lasted the longest was always the original bone stock engine from the factory. I had engines built that were supposed to handle 800+ HP and I would only dial them to 400 HP, didn't make any difference to longevity (as in 1 week to 6 months).

I don't mean to be downer on "engine builds", but to this day nobody I've dealt with in the past has ever produced a more reliable engine than factory bone stock. Not saying that great engine builders don't exist, I'm sure they do, I just have yet to find one. My "horror stories" are not the exception, even with Lotus, I've heard a ton of horror stories already on engine builds. There is a lot to be said for all the R&D that goes into a stock motor, cause there is NO WAY that much R&D could be put into a modified motor so the customers end up being the R&D. Race/engine shops just can't afford to purposely blow up their motors to discover failure points. Toyota probably blew up 1000's of these motors before the worked out "most" (not all) of the issues -- your local engine shop just isn't going to do that.

If you can find an engine builder that will offer a full warranty for 1 year, please let me know. Nobody, not a single engine builder I've dealt with in the past has even hinted at warranty (even for 30 days). Basically engine builders can deliver junk for big $$$ and it doesn't matter if it only lasts 1 hour -- too bad, one is just out of luck and money.

The best engine builders seem to be the ones that build engines that go into their OWN projects, not customer projects.

So who do ya trust, anyone? I'll admit, I am having a hard time trusting anyone.

Rob.

[Monkeywrench]

Sorry to hear about the engine troubles.

In my experience the ring lands are the weak point with a stock 2ZZ forced induction engine failure. We've pushed the stock 2zz (in our shop test car, never a customer's car) to over 400whp with a very careful tune but when the limit is reached it's always been the ring lands that give up. This results in oil consumption and lots of flow out the breather.

The stock head gasket is incredibly good and is all that we use for any 2ZZ build. It's held up just fine in our 750hp drag Celica with no issues at all. The ARP studs do help things out by providing additional clamping force so we use those in almost every build.

Whatever you do stay away from copper head gaskets. They are a dead technology in my opinion and 95% of the time result in oil or coolant leaks.

[robains]

Thanks for the response. I'm actually looking at your $1699 short block. Your web site suggests this is brand spanking new -- aka not a rebuild? Can you confirm? I got the APR and stock 2ZZ head gasket from you folks already, just need to find a new short block.

Your web site also says the stock new short blocks does not require core.
Link to MWR New Short Block

Could you give me any info on availability, shipping costs to Concord CA 94521 and how long shipping usually takes (tracking numbers?).

Thanks for your help, Rob.

[charliex]

rob, we've had good results with comptech and monkeywrench.

[Monkeywrench]

Brand new OEM Toyota short block. We'll be raising the price soon since Toyota raised their prices but that's the price for now.

We keep those short blocks in stock, available to ship immediately. $95 shipping for ground service 4-5 business days), $400 for 2 day air.

We use these short blocks on a lot of jobs and they're truly Toyota factory quality. Never any problems.

Originally Posted by robains

Thanks for the response. I'm actually looking at your $1699 short block. Your web site suggests this is brand spanking new -- aka not a rebuild? Can you confirm? I got the APR and stock 2ZZ head gasket from you folks already, just need to find a new short block.

Your web site also says the stock new short blocks does not require core.
Link to MWR New Short Block

Could you give me any info on availability, shipping costs to Concord CA 94521 and how long shipping usually takes (tracking numbers?).

Thanks for your help, Rob.