New SC Kit.

[charliex]

Here is another sheet from the next day.

edit: i added the base run from the car when it was stock , to this sheet.

[Jack]

Originally Posted by charliex

Here is another sheet from the next day.

Sir Charles,

What % loss should we use for converting those numbers to Rear Wheel HP, in your opinion?

[turbophil]

Hey Charlie,

Any chance you'll devise a way to "correct" fuel and spark maps to compensate for post IC rise and fall in air temps? Since the the MAT is in the MAF for the NA cars, this may be near impossible, but it would be really cool if this was part of the setup... The above would allow the tune to really be spot-on and correct for heat soak, hot days, slow tracks, fast tracks, etc... Without that, we're obviously just guessing that boosted temps are X over ambient, thus a compromised tune since the IC efficiency is dependant on airflow....

Best,

Phil

[MitchT]

From the looks of that dyno it reads 265.5 rwhp and 277.6 sae corrected fw hp. unless I am reading it wrong. Those are great numbers.

[Jack]

Originally Posted by MitchT

From the looks of that dyno it reads 265.5 rwhp and 277.6 sae corrected fw hp. unless I am reading it wrong. Those are great numbers.

I don't know...look at post #56... you can see the top of graphs where it's indicated fly wheel torque and fly wheel power?? Besides, 265 rwhp would be a lot more than 277 flywheel...I think.

They are great numbers no matter what.

[MitchT]

bottom number looks like flywheel correct with a loss factor (12-15% drivetrain is used alot),but for it to have actual flywheel hp the motor would have to be on an engine dyno not a chassis dyno so there is loss factor and a bit of speculation. Shops that do alot of dyno work for cars that are weight classed via HP would have a good calibration on their dyno. I think Lotus made these numbers with the green car 265( ethnol) and the writeup on driving the car at those hp number where exceptional.

[charliex]

They're all rear wheel figures, just the way the dynapack displays it.

[charliex]

Originally Posted by turbophil

Hey Charlie,

Any chance you'll devise a way to "correct" fuel and spark maps to compensate for post IC rise and fall in air temps? Since the the MAT is in the MAF for the NA cars, this may be near impossible, but it would be really cool if this was part of the setup... The above would allow the tune to really be spot-on and correct for heat soak, hot days, slow tracks, fast tracks, etc... Without that, we're obviously just guessing that boosted temps are X over ambient, thus a compromised tune since the IC efficiency is dependant on airflow....

Best,

Phil

The ECU does compensate for intake temperatures, if you want them post intercooler, you have to install a new TMAP sensor on the exit of the IC, then it can use that instead, the software just knows which one to use.

[Transonic]

Subscribed.

[charliex]

added base NA run to dyno sheet.

[E.D.]

Originally Posted by charliex

added base NA run to dyno sheet.

The stock NA max. torque of approx. 118 is average for NA....even a bit on the lower side since normally peaks are in the low 120s...

so if stock NA appears reliable in the dyno sheet, why then would the SC w/IC-kit max. torque of approx. 179 not be reliable in the dyno sheet???

But that 179 indeed is much higher than the 162 shown on the dynojet in post #1 (which doesn't have a comparative NA run).

I'm lost , guess we'll need to wait for another dyno run on the LV based dyno where CharlieX normally goes to.

[Jack]

Originally Posted by charliex

They're all rear wheel figures, just the way the dynapack displays it.

Ahhh...I understand now.

Thanks for helping me out.

[charliex]

Originally Posted by E.D.

The stock NA max. torque of approx. 118 is average for NA....even a bit on the lower side since normally peaks are in the low 120s...

so if stock NA appears reliable in the dyno sheet, why then would the SC w/IC-kit max. torque of approx. 179 not be reliable in the dyno sheet???

But that 179 indeed is much higher than the 162 shown on the dynojet in post #1 (which doesn't have a comparative NA run).

I'm lost , guess we'll need to wait for another dyno run on the LV based dyno where CharlieX normally goes to.

Its a percentage thing, so the base HP is a little high, so the SC will also be a little high, I don't think its much though.

I like to be conservative so thats why i posted the DynoJet numbers, the car really pulls hard on the road though. It'd be nice to say those are the actual figures, i'm sure they're not far off either, but this way posting sheets from different dynos helps to gain an overall picture, we used it as a difference tool, not an absolute.

In the end if I go with the lower numbers, the end user is happier if they do a pull and it shows higher, so rather than show the absolute max gained on the dyno, we've gone for the lowest readings, using SAE correction too, which is normally what I use.

[turbophil]

Originally Posted by charliex

The ECU does compensate for intake temperatures, if you want them post intercooler, you have to install a new TMAP sensor on the exit of the IC, then it can use that instead, the software just knows which one to use.

On the Exige, sure... I'm referring to the Elise, that doesn't have a TMAP... I'm not trying to be nit-picky here, but a post IC MAT or TMAP would allow you to tune the car to get the most HP out of the setup regardless of the cooling airflow the IC sees. If you don't have this, you have to tune assuming that the IC is completely heat soaked or motors are going to pop. Ofcourse, that wouldn't be good as it would be too similar to the Katana tune...

A/A ICs are great (I prefer them), but a provision has to be made in the tuning to deal with heat soak (e.g. a post IC MAT), as the ICs will get soaked from time to time. Sure they can cool back down at speed. It's running the car hard during the time between heat soak and cooling down that motors pop. I've spent a lot of time around A/A ICs to know this...

Best,

Phil

[charliex]

Originally Posted by turbophil

On the Exige, sure... I'm referring to the Elise, that doesn't have a TMAP... I'm not trying to be nit-picky here, but a post IC MAT or TMAP would allow you to tune the car to get the most HP out of the setup regardless of the cooling airflow the IC sees. If you don't have this, you have to tune assuming that the IC is completely heat soaked or motors are going to pop. Ofcourse, that wouldn't be good as it would be too similar to the Katana tune...

"you have to install a new TMAP sensor on the exit of the IC"

The tune is the same regardless of whether or not its an elise or exige, its just a config option when i flash it as to where it picks it up from.

[turbophil]

Originally Posted by charliex

"you have to install a new TMAP sensor on the exit of the IC"

The tune is the same regardless of whether or not its an elise or exige, its just a config option when i flash it as to where it picks it up from.

Ah, Cool... So are you converting to speed/density for this and doing away with the MAF? How would we add the TMAP since the '05 doesn't have one. Would we lop off the MAF pig tail and replace with TMAP connector and then you build a table to deal with the new input? At first glance it doesn't seem like the '05 ECU has the physical ability to add another sensor without someone like you to help with a new pinout o something??? Help me make sense of this. I'm probably just missing the boat here.....


In anycase, may I suggest that you strongly recommend/require this end user added sensor and that you create the appropriate table to adjust timing and fuel according to post IC charge temps? This is an issue not to be taken lightly with A/A intercooling...

Good work,

Phil

[charliex]

Originally Posted by turbophil

Ah, Cool... So are you converting to speed/density for this and doing away with the MAF? How would we add the TMAP since the '05 doesn't have one. Would we lop off the MAF pig tail and replace with TMAP connector and then you build a table to deal with the new input? At first glance it doesn't seem like the '05 ECU has the physical ability to add another sensor without someone like you to help with a new pinout o something??? Help me make sense of this. I'm probably just missing the boat here.....


In anycase, may I suggest that you strongly recommend/require this end user added sensor and that you create the appropriate table to adjust timing and fuel according to post IC charge temps? This is an issue not to be taken lightly with A/A intercooling...

Good work,

Phil

Nope the TMAP sensor portion is only used for temperature reading, its a dual sensor.

Its already something we've been doing for a year or so at least.

[Westrock]

Whats a TMAP? MAP sensor with a temperature function? If you only want temps, there are IAT (intake air temp) sensors. Honda had good ones that had 2 screws to secure them to manifold.


The thing I'm seeing is almost 100+ HP....thats acceptable

[charliex]

Yeah its a dual temp map/maf sensor, its the same one lotus uses. Sometimes we've used it for MAP function too, so its worth it, plus all the calibrations are set for that one, its just easier to do it that way.

[SweetDaddyD]

NICE!