New SC Kit.

[Lotus-Position]

I've driven a Katana car... no perceptible latency that I could detect. With the added IC volume, do you notice any throttle latency with this new kit?

Charlie: you continue to impress! Hats off to you!

[charliex]

nothing i could tell, car ran very linear and very strong, felt awesome on the street, so much so i'm retuning my car since i'm a jealous of how linear it was.

[UKphil]

Charlie.

Please consider our conversation today as a definite order.
I'll send a deposit if you like.

[tvacc]

subbed

[Ade]

Originally Posted by charliex

nothing i could tell, car ran very linear and very strong, felt awesome on the street, so much so i'm retuning my car since i'm a jealous of how linear it was.

Why not add the Proalloy charge cooler to yours? that will flatten the torque curve

[charliex]

Working on it!

Theres some dips we want to smooth out too, probably a bit extra power in there, and i might drop a pulley size too.

[charliex]

heres some videos of the work going on.

Baselining AF with monkeyTuna, you can see the fuel cell lighting up as the car runs through the RPM/Airflow range on the DynaPack, then the wideband in the background shows the AF mix. This allows me to steady state the AF mixes, rather than just doing large changes offline and guessing.

The changes are edited realtime over the CAN bus so i can actually set the AF mix to where it wants to be, the elise has a set Base AFR table that has to be matched properly in order to stop it drifting later, if the maps don't match, it'll attempt to correct the AF mix over time to the desired AF mix, and since the base line fuel will be wrong, it'll adapt incorrectly. You can sorta see the top left window where i can watch the desired AF as well as the actual.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...70096791&hl=en

Watching the cam change dip and top end power
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...14042849&hl=en

Dynorun on the DynoJet.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...43039968&hl=en

Watching the engine move on the DynoJet.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...80521383&hl=en

[Ol'Racer]

Very Impressive! Expect a call.

Here's something of interest. If you do a W/A make it the last thing on your agenda, as you'll be lucky to sell a couple. http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/par...tercooler.html

Thousands of A/A are used in those cars. Porsches saw the light years ago and weren't blinded by it---pun intended. Guys get the W/A and dump them fast...one reason is A/A works better. And it has no chance of your electric water pump, lines, heat exchangers, etc. going out or leaking, Not fun trying to find the leak or whatever and having to pull the clam/clams.

I even tried one early on BTDT... had to try it because of erroneous hype ... it sucked compared to A/A.

Do you relocate the alternator or is it the same type of install as the Greddy?

That guy can't sell sell his and it's been up for 6 months. Check out the factual opinions of people who have been using intercoolers for over 20 years on those cars and others. I'd need some hard data to show that W/A is better than A/A, even if space/area is lacking for A/A. A fan or fans could help, but may be necessary for only idling or slow traffic with the a/c on.

JMO and thousands of others.

[ace996]

Originally Posted by Ol'Racer

Very Impressive! Expect a call.

Here's something of interest. If you do a W/A make it the last thing on your agenda, as you'll be lucky to sell a couple. http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/par...tercooler.html

Thousands of A/A are used in those cars. Porsches saw the light years ago and weren't blinded by it---pun intended. Guys get the W/A and dump them fast...one reason is A/A works better. And it has no chance of your electric water pump, lines, heat exchangers, etc. going out or leaking, Not fun trying to find the leak or whatever and having to pull the clam/clams.

I even tried one early on BTDT... had to try it because of erroneous hype ... it sucked compared to A/A.

Do you relocate the alternator or is it the same type of install as the Greddy?

That guy can't sell sell his and it's been up for 6 months. Check out the factual opinions of people who have been using intercoolers for over 20 years on those cars and others. I'd need some hard data to show that W/A is better than A/A, even if space/area is lacking for A/A. A fan or fans could help, but may be necessary for only idling or slow traffic with the a/c on.

JMO and thousands of others.

TurboBuick?...those guys are draggers and sit and stage and heatsoak anyting/everything under their hoods. Julio, of Alkycontrol, has done wonders with his meth-injection kits...enough to completely remove the intercoolers...I ran one of his kitson my Z06, it wasawesome even with my water/air intercooler.

I never experienced heat-soak wtih my water/air i/c, because I don't drag/stage/sit in traffic and then beat on it. After 20 minute sessions on the track, my fluid was still cool. It just depends on how you use them.

[ace996]

Charlie,
You plan on using meth/water injection too? I will never run another car, charged or turbod, without meth/water injection again...for many reasons, not just the additonal power.

It would be great to have an ability to run some injection for safety/cleaning/cooling.

Thanks,
TomK

[NMRJock]

I can't wait to see this launched officially. I've been working on my wife to OK a supercharger...

[Westrock]

Originally Posted by ace996

TurboBuick?...those guys are draggers and sit and stage and heatsoak anyting/everything under their hoods.
I never experienced heat-soak wtih my water/air i/c, because I don't drag/stage/sit in traffic and then beat on it. After 20 minute sessions on the track, my fluid was still cool. It just depends on how you use them.

I think he was talking more about the overall packaging of A/W as compared to the simplicity of A/A, not in terms of absolute performance.

Charlie was that a TurboXS Tuner you were using?

Any ETA on this "project"?

[Jean-Paul]

does the ingine wear an engine damper ? at the end of the dyno the engine pops a lot. maybe with so much power you should consider fitting one..

[turbophil]

I think some guys don't understand "heat soak" and how it impacts A/A vs. W/A IC's. A/A ICs have the ability to be more efficient than W/A, period....

That is provided that they can achieve sufficient airflow and surface area, which is a product of correct packaging more than anything. Packaging with a A/A can be difficult (especially in our 111s). The IC needs to be bigger than a A/W and needs to be perpindicular to the air stream for the best results. If those challenges can be solved, the user has an infinite cooling medium (air), and fewer layers of heat transfer when compared to A/W- thus more efficient, weighs less, fewer places for failure, etc...

A/A Heat Soak. Typically not an issue on a moving vehicle, such a car that is tracked or driven hard through the twisties provided that the A/A has sufficient air flow (back to the packaging challenge)... Remember that the A/A cools off pretty quickly if the IC gets heat soaked from sitting in traffic or similar (A/A cools much faster than an A/W system if the water gets heat soaked). As you can imagine, a street driven car with A/A trends to have a wider range of efficiency due to the variable airflow available to it. A dedicated track car has a much more narrow efficiency range since it's always moving at speed when it's running. An A/A tuner that knows his stuff is going to have a post IC MAT to deal with the wider range that is present on a street driven car.

There are two main challenges with A/A on our cars: Packaging and tuning. Obviously, Sir Wallace can tune them (get that post IC MAT in that proto-type) and I think whatever company that is designing the IC has a decent start. I personally am not a big fan of the IC packaging in the pics since the IC isn't perpindicular to the airstream... but perhaps there's airflow there good enough to do the job...I wouldn't think there is, but I can't say for sure Some track data-logging will tell the story...

My 2 pennies...

Best,

Phil

[Jack]

Originally Posted by turbophil

I think some guys don't understand "heat soak" and how it impacts A/A vs. W/A IC's. A/A ICs have the ability to be more efficient than W/A, period....

That is provided that they can achieve sufficient airflow and surface area, which is a product of correct packaging more than anything. Packaging with a A/A can be difficult (especially in our 111s). The IC needs to be bigger than a A/W and needs to be perpindicular to the air stream for the best results. If those challenges can be solved, the user has an infinite cooling medium (air), and fewer layers of heat transfer when compared to A/W- thus more efficient, weighs less, fewer places for failure, etc...

A/A Heat Soak. Typically not an issue on a moving vehicle, such a car that is tracked or driven hard through the twisties provided that the A/A has sufficient air flow (back to the packaging challenge)... Remember that the A/A cools off pretty quickly if the IC gets heat soaked from sitting in traffic or similar (A/A cools much faster than an A/W system if the water gets heat soaked). As you can imagine, a street driven car with A/A trends to have a wider range of efficiency due to the variable airflow available to it. A dedicated track car has a much more narrow efficiency range since it's always moving at speed when it's running. An A/A tuner that knows his stuff is going to have a post IC MAT to deal with the wider range that is present on a street driven car.

There are two main challenges with A/A on our cars: Packaging and tuning. Obviously, Sir Wallace can tune them (get that post IC MAT in that proto-type) and I think whatever company that is designing the IC has a decent start. I personally am not a big fan of the IC packaging in the pics since the IC isn't perpindicular to the airstream... but perhaps there's airflow there good enough to do the job...I wouldn't think there is, but I can't say for sure Some track data-logging will tell the story...

My 2 pennies...

Best,

Phil

Your 2 cents are always worth more.

[UKphil]

Originally Posted by turbophil

I personally am not a big fan of the IC packaging in the pics since the IC isn't perpindicular to the airstream...

How about this (patent pending) ?

[ChrisB]

Originally Posted by UKphil

How about this (patent pending) ?

Attachment 78623

That's not an IC. That is a picture of the Cummins Diesel engine swap for those guys that want more low-end torque.

[charliex]

Mot doing meth/water injection, i'm not a huge fan of it, since what happens when you run out, or forget to fill etc.

Originally Posted by turbophil

I think some guys don't understand "heat soak" and how it impacts A/A vs. W/A IC's. A/A ICs have the ability to be more efficient than W/A, period....

That is provided that they can achieve sufficient airflow and surface area, which is a product of correct packaging more than anything. Packaging with a A/A can be difficult (especially in our 111s). The IC needs to be bigger than a A/W and needs to be perpindicular to the air stream for the best results. If those challenges can be solved, the user has an infinite cooling medium (air), and fewer layers of heat transfer when compared to A/W- thus more efficient, weighs less, fewer places for failure, etc...

A/A Heat Soak. Typically not an issue on a moving vehicle, such a car that is tracked or driven hard through the twisties provided that the A/A has sufficient air flow (back to the packaging challenge)... Remember that the A/A cools off pretty quickly if the IC gets heat soaked from sitting in traffic or similar (A/A cools much faster than an A/W system if the water gets heat soaked). As you can imagine, a street driven car with A/A trends to have a wider range of efficiency due to the variable airflow available to it. A dedicated track car has a much more narrow efficiency range since it's always moving at speed when it's running. An A/A tuner that knows his stuff is going to have a post IC MAT to deal with the wider range that is present on a street driven car.

There are two main challenges with A/A on our cars: Packaging and tuning. Obviously, Sir Wallace can tune them (get that post IC MAT in that proto-type) and I think whatever company that is designing the IC has a decent start. I personally am not a big fan of the IC packaging in the pics since the IC isn't perpindicular to the airstream... but perhaps there's airflow there good enough to do the job...I wouldn't think there is, but I can't say for sure Some track data-logging will tell the story...

My 2 pennies...

Best,

Phil

I think we're ok on the definition of heat soak, the company who built it is an old hand at this stuff so I think we're ok with it not being perpendicular, it performs well within expectations, we did extensive data logging with multiple thermocouples. The IC wasn't just thrown together and see if it worked, it was designed and built via simulation on a computer by an experienced engineer.

The 3000GT uses side mounted intercoolers, as does the 300ZX and some models of Supra, so they're not exactly without merit, and those are much larger applications than this.

There is space for a pulley fan if its deemed necessary but so far it hasn't been.

I don't think we need the post IC MAT either, the ECU did a very effective job on pulling out power when it heatsoaked as is, again I'm talking from real world experience here.

I'm sure you're IC solution will be different to this one, dare i guess it won't be perpendicular.

[charliex]

Originally Posted by Jean-Paul

does the ingine wear an engine damper ? at the end of the dyno the engine pops a lot. maybe with so much power you should consider fitting one..

its actually not as much as some engines, but yes its something worth considering.

[charliex]

Originally Posted by Westrock

Charlie was that a TurboXS Tuner you were using?

Any ETA on this "project"?

Yes it was, I prefer it over the LM1 which i had absolutely terrible experiences with.

It should be available by the end of the month, thats the last i heard about it.