Ronin 4.5 Turbo Build - Page 5 - LotusTalk

charliex · 07-14-2008, 01:17 PM

Unfortunately doing a proper MAF to MAP conversion requires a lot more work than just applying a rescaling/remap function. (not convinced the maf is pegged yet)

Bender Rodríguez · 07-15-2008, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliex

Unfortunately doing a proper MAF to MAP conversion requires a lot more work than just applying a rescaling/remap function. (not convinced the maf is pegged yet)

This really leads to my question concerning the setup on Franks car. If I understand correctly you've added additional fuel/ timing tables based on a coarse set range of MAP values? I'm guessing like 2 or 3 MAP settings total switches to some different unused portion of the factory memory where you've added the tables, and effectively adding another dimension to the factory logic. Is that correct? Other than that the only other thing I could think of is some kind of a post logic correction value.

charliex · 07-15-2008, 09:46 AM

Nope we're still running off the MAF sensor at the moment, if we switch to MAP all of the maps in the ecu would be recalibrated for a MAP sensor instead, the extra TMAP sensor is curently being used for intercooler temperature.

jlitman · 07-15-2008, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliex

Unfortunately doing a proper MAF to MAP conversion requires a lot more work than just applying a rescaling/remap function. (not convinced the maf is pegged yet)

You're probably getting pretty close to 5 volts...

Can you rescale the MAF voltage? That's probably a whole lot easier than converting to speed density, which I'm guessing would mean starting from scratch...

Here's pics of the final product

GTsRasta · 07-15-2008, 09:56 PM

He needs those red wheels now...

Bender Rodríguez · 07-16-2008, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlitman

You're probably getting pretty close to 5 volts...

Can you rescale the MAF voltage? That's probably a whole lot easier than converting to speed density, which I'm guessing would mean starting from scratch...

You would have to modify the MAF sensor itself. The voltage it produces corresponds with a set value of air flow rescaling the ecu to think that same voltage is now a different amount of air wouldn't do the trick alone.

Dragon · 07-16-2008, 05:00 AM

The only real options if your maxing out the stock MAF are:

1. Use a MAP sensor.
2. Put the stock MAF in to the compressed air after the turbo and before the throttle body.
3. Put the stock MAF in to a larger intake pipe so it will see a smaller total %age of airflow.
4. Use a different MAF sensor from something else.

Pretty much any of them will require changing a lot of information and retuning. The easiest one would be #3 as you can calculate the % of extra airflow and know how much to offset by. In the long run option #1 would be more work, but the best option for performance. One thing that would help is to actually hook up a GM 3 bar all by itself, give it 5v input and ground and log the out put voltages along with all the other data log information from a few runs. Then you could compare the MAF voltages to the MAP voltages side by side and that would help a ton in setting up a good base tune for the MAP.

charliex · 07-16-2008, 09:21 AM

We already have the TMAP sensor installed for any logging that'd be needed, the TMAF is also in a larger tube, and we have the scooby TMAF on hand just in case.

but first figuring out whats actually happening before we go off changing stuff, i'm hoping to get back to the car next week.

Tang0_au · 07-16-2008, 09:38 PM

supra maf is a lot better scale on it for boosted apps ... slight re-calibration required, but wont reach 5.0v as quick ...

Viggen · 07-16-2008, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casey@ForcedFed

We've tried the 3076..3037...custom 3076/2871 setups and all of them delivered less than desirable power bands(at least for track use) and we eventually settled on the 2871 with a .64 in a t25 housing.

Have you tried the GT3071r's .64 before? I have found that the GT3071r spools up 500-750 RPM's sooner then the .64 2871r & the 3071r also has a stronger top end. This is on a 2.3L motor & 30-35 PSI of boost on both turbo's with the same HW. The 3076r was 1000 or so RPM's later then the 2871r, usually not developing 30-35PSI untill 5000-5500 RPM's.

jlitman · 07-17-2008, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliex

We already have the TMAP sensor installed for any logging that'd be needed, the TMAF is also in a larger tube, and we have the scooby TMAF on hand just in case.

but first figuring out whats actually happening before we go off changing stuff, i'm hoping to get back to the car next week.

You've got all your bases covered then

Abe · 07-29-2008, 11:38 AM

And now Ronin has to pay attention to his

YouTube - ****ed gearbox

choi0706 · 07-29-2008, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmw1

And now Ronin has to pay attention to his

YouTube - ****ed gearbox

Illumiloti · 07-29-2008, 12:10 PM

Talked to Ronin at a stoplight in the valley on Sunday. Said he was making 380 hp and that he and Charlie were going back to the dyno on Monday for e re-tune. Then the light turned green while we were still talking. Woman behind him honked her horn. He hit the go peddle and was gone like he was shot out of a cannon. Unreal! This video was obviously after the Moday tune. Wonder what the got the hp up to. Ronin told me they were shooting for 450.

Jack · 07-29-2008, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pestodude

Wonder what the got the hp up to. Ronin told me they were shooting for 450.

According to Frank, there's more tuning to do...right now (as of his tuning session on Monday at Tri-Point, before the tranny issue) he says the car is at the ~380 RWH/280TQ level.

Tracktimeplz · 07-29-2008, 12:17 PM

Notice the smooth acceleration and how quick it is even in low RPM. Impressive

charliex · 07-29-2008, 03:43 PM

It's quick.

Illumiloti · 07-29-2008, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliex

It's quick.

You think there's more there (tuning wise)?

charliex · 07-29-2008, 03:52 PM

Yes, at the end of the day we'd only just really gotten done with the fuelling and base stuff, then had started playing with the spark and VVtli settings,( boosted and some of the celica guys are passing on their experiences there too, which is very handy ), and then we stopped for the day.

the car ran well though, we didn't hit any technical snags except for setting up the apexi boost controller, which has 30+ pages for a boost controller..

turbophil · 07-29-2008, 03:55 PM

Very Cool Charlie- I imagine tuning on that beast was a nice change in pace form the drab 'ol super charged cars

Best,

Phil

07-14-2008, 01:17 PM	#81 (permalink)
charliex OSX Black hat Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Las Vegas , NV Posts: 9,935	Unfortunately doing a proper MAF to MAP conversion requires a lot more work than just applying a rescaling/remap function. (not convinced the maf is pegged yet) __________________ Black Exige S - http://goth.am 265 Mule / Elan M100.ECU Tuning, http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39660 West Coast Lotus Meet - Las Vegas - November 6-9 2009 http://www.westcoastlotus.com/ Last edited by charliex : 07-14-2008 at 01:35 PM.

07-15-2008, 09:46 AM	#83 (permalink)
charliex OSX Black hat Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Las Vegas , NV Posts: 9,935	Nope we're still running off the MAF sensor at the moment, if we switch to MAP all of the maps in the ecu would be recalibrated for a MAP sensor instead, the extra TMAP sensor is curently being used for intercooler temperature. __________________ Black Exige S - http://goth.am 265 Mule / Elan M100.ECU Tuning, http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39660 West Coast Lotus Meet - Las Vegas - November 6-9 2009 http://www.westcoastlotus.com/

07-16-2008, 05:00 AM	#87 (permalink)
Dragon Hydrocarbons Rule Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Okinawa Japan Posts: 1,747 Images: 2	The only real options if your maxing out the stock MAF are: 1. Use a MAP sensor. 2. Put the stock MAF in to the compressed air after the turbo and before the throttle body. 3. Put the stock MAF in to a larger intake pipe so it will see a smaller total %age of airflow. 4. Use a different MAF sensor from something else. Pretty much any of them will require changing a lot of information and retuning. The easiest one would be #3 as you can calculate the % of extra airflow and know how much to offset by. In the long run option #1 would be more work, but the best option for performance. One thing that would help is to actually hook up a GM 3 bar all by itself, give it 5v input and ground and log the out put voltages along with all the other data log information from a few runs. Then you could compare the MAF voltages to the MAP voltages side by side and that would help a ton in setting up a good base tune for the MAP. __________________ 2006 Exige; BWR Supercharger, Adj Sway Bar, Ohlins Suspension, BSK Oil Catch Can, Moroso Oil Pan, ORC Clutch, Custom Exhaust, Black Volk Racing CE28N's w/ Toyo R1R's, 2 piece rotors, Pagid Blue Pads, BSK Wet Carbon (Side Skirts, Front Lip Spoiler, Gas Cap Cover, Center Console, Door Panels), Dry Carbon rear Diffuser, Harness Bar, BWR Gauge Mount, OMP Superquadro steering wheel, LETSLA Short Shifter, V2arms, Rear Tow Link Brace, RLS Battery Bracket, BOE Tow Bar, Stickers.

07-16-2008, 09:21 AM	#88 (permalink)
charliex OSX Black hat Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Las Vegas , NV Posts: 9,935	We already have the TMAP sensor installed for any logging that'd be needed, the TMAF is also in a larger tube, and we have the scooby TMAF on hand just in case. but first figuring out whats actually happening before we go off changing stuff, i'm hoping to get back to the car next week. __________________ Black Exige S - http://goth.am 265 Mule / Elan M100.ECU Tuning, http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39660 West Coast Lotus Meet - Las Vegas - November 6-9 2009 http://www.westcoastlotus.com/

07-16-2008, 09:38 PM	#89 (permalink)
Tang0_au w00t Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 130	supra maf is a lot better scale on it for boosted apps ... slight re-calibration required, but wont reach 5.0v as quick ... __________________ 1zz Elise Blown by Rotrex: Build Thread: http://www.aussieelises.com/forums/i...showtopic=9609

07-29-2008, 12:10 PM	#94 (permalink)
Illumiloti (Formerly PESTODUDE) Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 692	Talked to Ronin at a stoplight in the valley on Sunday. Said he was making 380 hp and that he and Charlie were going back to the dyno on Monday for e re-tune. Then the light turned green while we were still talking. Woman behind him honked her horn. He hit the go peddle and was gone like he was shot out of a cannon. Unreal! This video was obviously after the Moday tune. Wonder what the got the hp up to. Ronin told me they were shooting for 450. __________________ Randy '07 Phntm Blk Exige S. Proalloy chargecooler, RLS IC tubes, Sector RTD brace, Manly's motor mounts, cup air box, CF Sector front splitter, wing, and side scoops/ mesh removed, SS brake lines, Sector and "Stan's" shifter mod, "Stan's" clutch pedal mod, Voltphreaks 4.5lb battery, Gotham tune.

07-29-2008, 12:17 PM	#96 (permalink)
Tracktimeplz Race lines on the mind Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Northwest Florida Posts: 1,085	Notice the smooth acceleration and how quick it is even in low RPM. Impressive __________________ 2003 Honda S2000 - Suzuka Blue 2005 Magnetic Blue Elise Forcefed 275 turbo - Sold 05/20/09

07-29-2008, 03:43 PM	#97 (permalink)
charliex OSX Black hat Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Las Vegas , NV Posts: 9,935	It's quick. __________________ Black Exige S - http://goth.am 265 Mule / Elan M100.ECU Tuning, http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39660 West Coast Lotus Meet - Las Vegas - November 6-9 2009 http://www.westcoastlotus.com/

07-29-2008, 03:52 PM	#99 (permalink)
charliex OSX Black hat Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Las Vegas , NV Posts: 9,935	Yes, at the end of the day we'd only just really gotten done with the fuelling and base stuff, then had started playing with the spark and VVtli settings,( boosted and some of the celica guys are passing on their experiences there too, which is very handy ), and then we stopped for the day. the car ran well though, we didn't hit any technical snags except for setting up the apexi boost controller, which has 30+ pages for a boost controller.. __________________ Black Exige S - http://goth.am 265 Mule / Elan M100.ECU Tuning, http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39660 West Coast Lotus Meet - Las Vegas - November 6-9 2009 http://www.westcoastlotus.com/

07-29-2008, 03:55 PM	#100 (permalink)
turbophil Plug Whisperer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kansas City/ Overland Park Posts: 2,544 Images: 6	Very Cool Charlie- I imagine tuning on that beast was a nice change in pace form the drab 'ol super charged cars Best, Phil __________________ \| '05 GG LSS Elise \| A Track Chariot \| BOE ClamHinge \| BOE TVS SuperCharger 280whp/180wtq \| EFI Standalone Engine Management \| BOE Fuel Surge System \| BOE Lotus Tow Package See my car at BOE Fabrication: www.boefabrication.com *----->Last Updated: 9/25/2009* If something ain't worth doing right, it ain't worth doing... *Whoever thought working on a Lotus is hard, clearly hasn't tried it. Pick up a wrench and get some grease under your nails*

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