Supercharger decision making, GRRRRRRR!!!!

[erics75218]

I've been parsing the thread the past few days, looking at my supercharger options. And I'm in a BIT of a problem....a rock and a hard place if you will.

First off I own a 06' Exige and I want more power. Now the question for me is how much is "enough" and what about upgrade ability v.s. price of the first install. Of course price is a concern, but what concerns me most is that I will WANT to upgrade a bit later, and will be screwed if I go with the option I'm leaning toward, which is the Katana.

I feel like the VF isn't an option for me because of price and the complexity of the install.

I like the TVS but it's VERY expensive.

I like the Katana/BWR because of price, but I read it's not really upgradeable.

In the short term I don't want to have to replace my clutch and the like.

So is it true that the Katana is kind of install it and forget about it? Can you not add a bit smaller pulley and some other things here and there to get some more out of it should the desire arise?

I love the TVS because as a base setup, it seems that it can make as much power as you are willing to spend for....BUT as a base setup it's about 2x the cost of the Katana.

If there was a "kit" like the Katana/Bwr without the EFI and such...maybe that would be the way to go? I'm tend to like to buy anything with upgrade potential over things that have reached the end of it's development which is what the Katana feels like.

Will I need more than 45 or so more HP....maybe...maybe not...but it would be nice to know I could.

Anyone else in the same boat?

[SweetDaddyD]

You might want to hold out for the guy with all the monitors that was going to buy 3 Lotus cars and make 500+ HP kits for them as he has done for several other clients which would be of the highest quality, reliability, and driveability. It's going to be a little bit before he makes them, and he has a lot of monitors to keep an eye on in the mean time, one of which has CNN on.
Whatever happened to that guy? I made extra popcorn.

[spectre]

Originally Posted by SweetDaddyD

You might want to hold out for the guy with all the monitors that was going to buy 3 Lotus cars and make 500+ HP kits for them as he has done for several other clients which would be of the highest quality, reliability, and driveability. It's going to be a little bit before he makes them, and he has a lot of monitors to keep an eye on in the mean time, one of which has CNN on.
Whatever happened to that guy? I made extra popcorn.

Man you have been on fire today...

[turbophil]

I'll try to be as unbiased here as possible and summarize...

It sounds like $$ are at/near the top of the list of considerations. If that's the case, the Katana/BWR type kits are great. Lotta bang for the buck and the car basically remains a better version of what it already is without replacing the clutch, et al. Both of those kits are very upgradable to my TVS solution, FWIW...

The TVS is a blast, but it comes with additional expenses, as you'll need a new clutch for starters. Seems like most shops are charging nearly a grand for a clutch replacement plus parts. So you're out another 1500 bucks- give 'er take a few (depending on if you replace the FW, etc)... And then you have the exhaust. To really make the good power, you should (but don't have to) open up the exhaust. If you've already done this, no big deal. If not, another 600-1500 in exhaust goodies...

If you track the car and you're making ~270+whp, you REALLY need to invest a fuel starve solution. S111 sells a modified gas tank and I make a surge tank. Both will solve the problem... or source your own fix. Whatever you do, you NEED to do something as the engine will NOT live with any fuel starve at those power levels. You go lean in a turn and "poof". No questions asked and no forgiveness at that level

The little Katana/BWR kits are great for what they are. Cheap and easy power improvements with no additional expenses. Push the powerplant much further and then you need to start to think about the other items I mentioned-- particularly if you track the car....

My two pennies for the collection

Cheers,

Phil

[choi0706]

use a base kit (katana/bwr) then upgrade however you like..

[charliex]

We're making upto and over 300RWHP with mp62's, at that point you're at and over the limitations of the stock motor anyway, which is a massive investment to do anything about.

the mp62 kits are inexpensive and reliable and there are more of them than any other aftermarket so its been well tested too ( in the 100's )

You can start off at the stock levels of upto around 235RWHP with an MP62 based kit, then add things in small updates.

Consider that VF kit is staged, so you can upgrade it pretty easily in stages, whereas if you went with the katana, its a lot more expensive to switch it later.

Since i'm part of the team that developed the katana kit, and the katana itself was a development of a two other previous kits, the VF is more or less a continuation of the original ronin kit.

since you've said price, and upgrade potential, plus ease of use ,are your primary factors. then the VF is a better choice than a katana.

Since the MP62 can max out a stock engine, there is no limitation on it.

[erics75218]

Great info from both of the "Pros" and it's what I kinda' expected. There is no cheap upgradeable super charger :-D

The 2nd gen kits start at more or less 2x the cost of the 1st gen kits. And according to the spreadsheet, the stage 1 cost per HP is roughly the same as a Katana. But, you are clearly paying for upegrade ability, so that's not a fair comparison....and intercoolers aren't free.....but 2x is gonna be hard to swallow.

Including install, which I will have to pay for, you jump from a 5K cost (1st gen) to almost 8K (Stage 1 VF)....that's 3K which is A LOT to me?

I appreciate all the information guys!!!!

[A7594217]

vf kit 6400
katana 3400 plus flash around 4000

katana to vf upgrade is about 3000=7000 total

so you could get the katana and upgrade it to the vf later. It would cost you about $600 extra but spending almost 7k at once might not be an option. Just something to think about. If you dont end up doing it for a year or two it could be worth it.

[Demonized]

Aye, I plan on going the upgading to the VF once some of the little bugs, and and manual detail issues have been taken care of.

So, +1 for Ronin Katana now, VF Stage2 later.

[Rainier]

Please don't take my following question the wrong way, as super charger (TVS etc ) is something I'd consider and am very interested in the innovations you all are coming up with:

I'm asking as devil’s advocate, and for me to better understand the pros/cons of factory vs. aftermarket solutions.

If we can add an aftermarket super charger and get 270-300HP for $6,000 to $8,000 why hasn't Lotus already done this?

[rocketrider2]

It seems to me that Lotus is doing just that. Aren't we up to the S260 now Lotus just wants us to keep trading in our cars for the newer more powerful models.

[turbophil]

260 is bhp, not rwhp... Answer is probably closer to having something to do with emissions and warranty

[Rainier]

Originally Posted by rocketrider2

It seems to me that Lotus is doing just that. Aren't we up to the S260 now Lotus just wants us to keep trading in our cars for the newer more powerful models.

Yes, they are doing it, but for quite a bit of extra money.

Is the factory solution more expensive for technical reasons, or more for
marketing / profit?

[rocketrider2]

Originally Posted by erics75218

I've been parsing the thread the past few days, looking at my supercharger options. And I'm in a BIT of a problem....a rock and a hard place if you will.

First off I own a 06' Exige and I want more power. Now the question for me is how much is "enough" and what about upgrade ability v.s. price of the first install. Of course price is a concern, but what concerns me most is that I will WANT to upgrade a bit later, and will be screwed if I go with the option I'm leaning toward, which is the Katana.

I feel like the VF isn't an option for me because of price and the complexity of the install.

I like the TVS but it's VERY expensive.

I like the Katana/BWR because of price, but I read it's not really upgradeable.

In the short term I don't want to have to replace my clutch and the like.

So is it true that the Katana is kind of install it and forget about it? Can you not add a bit smaller pulley and some other things here and there to get some more out of it should the desire arise?

I love the TVS because as a base setup, it seems that it can make as much power as you are willing to spend for....BUT as a base setup it's about 2x the cost of the Katana.

If there was a "kit" like the Katana/Bwr without the EFI and such...maybe that would be the way to go? I'm tend to like to buy anything with upgrade potential over things that have reached the end of it's development which is what the Katana feels like.

Will I need more than 45 or so more HP....maybe...maybe not...but it would be nice to know I could.

Anyone else in the same boat?

Looking at the VF website it seems you could upgrade from a BWR. Did you check their website?

Lane

[turbophil]

Originally Posted by Rainier

Yes, they are doing it, but for quite a bit of extra money.

Not for the general public-- see my last...... maybe for some "really special" clients that order direct from Lotus, they can probably get some uber powerful version

TP

[waydui]

Sorry if I veer a little off course here, but I'm approaching the power issue a little differently.

First, let me say that I have a BWR with a PES tune and have put about 700 miles on it.

Power is way up over the stock engine. My issue now isn't adding more power, it's getting the most out of what I now have. My approach is to upgrade other components to take advantage of the greater power so I can use it more fully.

At some power level, the engine is going to overwhelm the other running gear. And then it gets really expensive

This means suspension, wheels, tires, exhaust, chassis dynamics, etc.

I don't think just adding more raw power gets me where I want to be. It'll never be a 400-500HP monster that I probably couldn't handle anyway.

Anyway, just my humble opinion.

Good luck with whatever solution you choose.

Regards,
Wayne

[exlondoner]

Wayne I do agree with you here. I also nearly went with the VF Stg II since money was not an object, however I ended up with the BWR since I felt that it was safer in the long run on the engine.

Goodluck with whichever direction you decide to go with....

[BrianK]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you get a Lotus Supercharger installed in an NA Lotus for around $6K? Complete with warranty and being totally legal in the eyes of the EPA/DOT?

For the record, I have a Pro Parts supercharger (the predecessor to the Katana - similar parts) & have been running it for 13K miles without issue (since I got Charlie's tune anyway).

[choi0706]

warranty smorannty..

the issues that come up on FI lotus are either fuel starvation or oil starvation..

[marcinr]

Originally Posted by BrianK

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you get a Lotus Supercharger installed in an NA Lotus for around $6K? Complete with warranty and being totally legal in the eyes of the EPA/DOT?

For the record, I have a Pro Parts supercharger (the predecessor to the Katana - similar parts) & have been running it for 13K miles without issue (since I got Charlie's tune anyway).

Yes, you can. It's in the high $6k range, but it makes noticeably less power than BWR, for instance. I've driven the BWR, NA and factory SC cars. On a scale of 1-10, with NA being 1 and BWR being 10, I'd say the factory SC is like a 6.