2nd Oil cooler not good for track? - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 
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Old 12-01-2011, 03:33 PM   #1 (permalink)
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2nd Oil cooler not good for track?

OK I had to replaced my oil lines like most have after a oil line fitting leak.

Went with new NCI lines so I thought it best time to add a new 2nd oil cooler to my single oil cooler Elise. I was thinking since the sport option from Lotus uses two oil coolers must then be good for track cars......

Now I see a kit to remove 2nd oil cooler for track cars.
RACEoilLINE


Seems I am dammed if I do and dammed if I don't....

Oh and I have all ready installed the new lines and 2 new oil cooler
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Old 12-01-2011, 04:40 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Do it, it works well in my car.
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Old 12-04-2011, 07:27 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Get rid of both of them ..........





Laminova to the rescue and reduce your oil lines to less than 2 feet.
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:48 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I think it's one of those things where you need to install an oil temp gauge to see if the second cooler is really over cooling it. And you can always tape over the second cooler on colder days.
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:26 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Old 12-04-2011, 03:57 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I think it's one of those things where you need to install an oil temp gauge to see if the second cooler is really over cooling it. And you can always tape over the second cooler on colder days.
I've been logging oil temps on my last 3 Lotus track cars; and even when I tracked in 107 degree F. ambient, I could only get my oil temps to about 210 F. Most of the time, during 70-90 degree F. days, oil temps would only get to ~ 180-185. I think ideal oil temps should be higher in order to burn off moisture build up and certain other impurities.

Also, don't push the RPM's until at least 10-15 minutes after your water temp comes up to normal operating parameters ... oil temps definitely lag behind water temps by quite a bit with the air-to-air oil coolers.
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Old 12-04-2011, 04:29 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I've been logging oil temps on my last 3 Lotus track cars; and even when I tracked in 107 degree F. ambient, I could only get my oil temps to about 210 F. Most of the time, during 70-90 degree F. days, oil temps would only get to ~ 180-185. I think ideal oil temps should be higher in order to burn off moisture build up and certain other impurities.

Also, don't push the RPM's until at least 10-15 minutes after your water temp comes up to normal operating parameters ... oil temps definitely lag behind water temps by quite a bit with the air-to-air oil coolers.
Ideal oil temp is around 200 degrees? I'm running 5w oil.

For your typical Speed Ventures day, getting heat in the oil before your session is difficult. I typically let my engine idle for 10 min and drive around for a few minutes between sessions, but that's probably not getting it back up to temp.
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Old 12-04-2011, 05:10 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
I've been logging oil temps on my last 3 Lotus track cars; and even when I tracked in 107 degree F. ambient, I could only get my oil temps to about 210 F. Most of the time, during 70-90 degree F. days, oil temps would only get to ~ 180-185. I think ideal oil temps should be higher in order to burn off moisture build up and certain other impurities.

Also, don't push the RPM's until at least 10-15 minutes after your water temp comes up to normal operating parameters ... oil temps definitely lag behind water temps by quite a bit with the air-to-air oil coolers.
Jack, you also have a hugely upgraded radiator and no AC right? I think it may be different for us street car guys with our thin little radiators to keep space for the AC condenser.

Ideal oil temperature is very difficult to calculate. The Corvette/BMW guys run well over 260-280 F as standard. I've never once heard of any Lotus damaging anything due to oil temperatures being too hot. I'm just waiting to see what Lotus is going to do about the oil line recall (I'm hoping they'll remove them and use a Laminova type cooler). If they don't do that, I'll probably just remove the coolers myself and run a Brent Bauman/Jack-like setup.

For what it's worth... The 2ZZ engine was designed to run oil pressures without 20+ feet of lines and 2x air/air coolers added to it. I'm convincing myself more and more as that the front mounted coolers may not be the best idea.
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Old 12-04-2011, 05:42 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Jack, you also have a hugely upgraded radiator and no AC right? I think it may be different for us street car guys with our thin little radiators to keep space for the AC condenser.
If you're asking if those cool oil temps were with my newer radiator set-up, they were not. Those oil temps were when i was running stock configuration ... stock radiator (no/ac) and stock oil coolers.

I upgraded the radiator (along with some other cooling tweaks) in anticipation of adding the laminovas for cooling the oil and transmission ... wanted to make sure that as we added more heat, the water cooling system could handle it.

I believe that ideal oil temps are ~ 220 and with modern synthetic oils -- running as high as 250 is OK.
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Old 12-04-2011, 05:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Ideal oil temp is around 200 degrees?
IMHO, that's too low.
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Old 12-04-2011, 05:50 PM   #11 (permalink)
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IMHO, that's too low.
Sounds like most people ought to block the passenger side cooler though I don't know if that has any bad effects.
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Old 12-04-2011, 07:11 PM   #12 (permalink)
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FWIW, I was hesitant to purchase a single oil cooler Elise and then spoke to Allen at Mulholland Motorsports. He mentioned that some of the guys that track their cars will tape up the 2nd cooler, because 2 oil coolers tended to keep oil temps too low. He told me he noticed a thin film residue on the oil pans that were swapped out for baffled ones. He felt that the moisture from condensation was the problem. The oil never reached a high enough temp to burn this away.
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Old 12-20-2011, 02:48 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Several days ago I bought an oil evacuator to change the oil from the dipstick tube,$150 from Harbor Freight but you need an air compressor to operate it. This was a very quick and easy way to get this done. I took the car out for a normal 15 minute ride to get the oil hot. When I got back I put the probe into the dipstick tube and started sucking the oil out. I grabbed the end of the tube to reposition it and noticed that it was too hot to even touch for a few seconds. ( the air temperature was 45 degrees F ). The Lotus Tech from Georgia said that there is a thermostat where the hoses connect to that plate at the filter. I am changing the oil much more frequently since I am leaving around 3 quarts of oil in the 2 oil coolers anyway. I use Mobil 1 5w-40.When it comes to performance in this car I wouldn't question Lotus engineers on this one!
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:54 AM   #14 (permalink)
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With 0 track days on my car, my oil temperature as measured at the pan has never gotten over 185-190. I have a single oil cooler, FWIW, and live in Houston where ambient temperature is rarely a problem...
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:58 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I will counterpoint as I have 2 2005 Elises and on track in the heat I see well over 230 oil temps with the dual oil coolers. Water temp is near 220. I'd personally not want to put more heat in the coolant and on a stock car, the oil coolers are in an excellent position to get airflow for heat dissipation. The oil lines are long and a significant issue for pressure loss and leaks and weight, I suppose, but I really like having the coolers up front in the airflow and I can say guys with single cooler cars that track them here in Texas complain about excessive temps on water, which tell me oil temps have to be getting up there.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:18 AM   #16 (permalink)
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IMO, Gotta keep that water below 200 on this motor... It REALLY doesn't like to run hot-- bad things happen... Oil in the 230-280s are good temps in my book... If you lower the water/engine temps, the oil temps will come down and need less cooling. Easy to relo some A/A oil coolers out back with some ducting and or in the side scoops with SETRAB coolers. If the motor is running cool enough, this form of oil cooling works great and you don't need to worry about the 25 feet of oil lines. You can easily drop it down to about 6 feet of line...

We run a lightweight electric water pump (mechanical pump deleted), no stat, no heater core loop, etc, etc, to help keep the engine temps in check...

...2 more cents...

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Old 01-01-2012, 03:09 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Would using a laminova oil/water cooler like on Jack's car without upgrading to a larger capacity radiator pose a problem on an Elise that sees 3-4 track events(2-3 days per event) per year? (driven 7000 miles per year approx.)

I currently have a single oil cooler on the driver's side, but do not have an oil gauge.
I think it would be a great idea for lotus to replace the failed oil lines with an oil-water setup instead of A/A. (maybe throw in a LotusSport radiator for our pain and suffering.. )
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Old 01-06-2012, 11:56 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Just got my supplies in for relocating the cooler to the rear. I'll try to keep notes/pictures of the process so it'll be easier for others.
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Old 01-06-2012, 12:15 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I will counterpoint as I have 2 2005 Elises and on track in the heat I see well over 230 oil temps with the dual oil coolers. Water temp is near 220. I'd personally not want to put more heat in the coolant and on a stock car, the oil coolers are in an excellent position to get airflow for heat dissipation. The oil lines are long and a significant issue for pressure loss and leaks and weight, I suppose, but I really like having the coolers up front in the airflow and I can say guys with single cooler cars that track them here in Texas complain about excessive temps on water, which tell me oil temps have to be getting up there.
That's interesting. Never seen water temp that high, but I've never tracked my car in heat higher than maybe 85 degrees. Saw maybe 205 or 210 sitting in traffic in 90+ degree Temecula heat, but that's it.

Quote:
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I upgraded the radiator (along with some other cooling tweaks) in anticipation of adding the laminovas for cooling the oil and transmission ... wanted to make sure that as we added more heat, the water cooling system could handle it.
So are you able to achieve oil temps in the 220-250 range with your new setup, while simultaneously keeping water temp < 200?
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:14 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Just got my supplies in for relocating the cooler to the rear. I'll try to keep notes/pictures of the process so it'll be easier for others.
How much did that cost and where did you get it?
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