The beginning of the build, SCCA “T2” Race car. - Page 2 - LotusTalk

38bfast · 02-03-2009, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Mist

Thanks, makes sense. Can you explain NASA's logic.

Its NASA. Just enjoy it for what it is.

exige cup dr · 02-03-2009, 06:01 AM

I have given up trying to understand SCCA's reasoning with classing cars. I feel if you had the right race shop that knows the rules, the Lotus 240 S could be competitive in T2, even with the additional weight. But yes, it would be costly.

Slipstreamer · 02-03-2009, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exige cup dr

I have given up trying to understand SCCA's reasoning with classing cars. I feel if you had the right race shop that knows the rules, the Lotus 240 S could be competitive in T2, even with the additional weight. But yes, it would be costly.

I hear you. I had to petition the BOD to include my Integra in SSB (Showroom Stock, Class "B" club racing) when it was new. Eventually moved to ITA (Improved Touring, Class "A") after a year.

SCCA is just too big. The local SCCA club in Southern California evens own a race track, Buttonwillow.

38bfast · 02-03-2009, 09:15 AM

T2 is now for the most part based on HP to weight. The Exige S220 has a lighter minimum weight than the S240. They only look at factory published HP numbers when classing the car. This gets messy with Turbo and SC cars. The mid range is much stronger than a NA motor. Now to make it even more confusing you are allowed to re-flash the OE ECU. So in the case of the Lotus S220 with a re-flash you for the most part have a S240 but with the weight advantage of the S220. The S240 does not gain that much with the re-flash.

This is another reason that the Pontiac solstice does so well. Turbo for one and the re-flash on that car makes much more power than OE.

There is still a lot of politics’ in T2. Some cars get more mods than others. If you talk to any driver they will tell you that their car is the slowest car in the field and needs help from SCCA to make it more competitive. Even if they have just won the race.

This year the runoffs are at Road America. Big long up hill straights. Not the strong suit for the Lotus. But the Lotus is almost 1000lbs lighter than any car out there. So it will turn and brake much better than the rest. Should make for some interesting racing.

SteveLevin · 02-03-2009, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exige cup dr

I have given up trying to understand SCCA's reasoning with classing cars. I feel if you had the right race shop that knows the rules, the Lotus 240 S could be competitive in T2, even with the additional weight. But yes, it would be costly.

Lotus essentially breaks the rules with the very lightweight design. As we all know, the Elise and Exige are really much more supercar and cornering machine than, well, just about anything else out there. And the philosophy of the T-1/2/3 classes is to have basically stock machines out there. And having more than 3 classes for Touring is tough -- as it is, T-3 is still working to get decent numbers because of some of the rules changes.

If you look at the cars running in T-3, for example:

Cobalt SS / Honda S2000 / Mazda RX-8 / Subaru WRX(and Legacy GT)

You really can't class the Exige or even the Elise S into there at stock weights without effectively making it the ONLY competitive car in that class with everything left in its wake.

I believe the new T-2 classing will not be as uncompetitive as 2008, but only time will tell. But there most certainly is a logic to the existing classings.

I will say that obviously I'm more a fan of purpose-built race cars as they offer great performance and often larger fields for significantly less money

Steve

Houston Lotus · 02-03-2009, 10:55 AM

If I remember correctly there was a Lotus Elise in the T2 runoffs last year that qualified around midfield.

kverges · 02-03-2009, 01:01 PM

one thing that has always bothered me about the Lotus as a race car. Can you get out of that car with a helmet and HANS on and the door shut?

spectre · 02-03-2009, 01:42 PM

No you can't, that's why you need a james bond button to escape.

38bfast · 02-03-2009, 02:10 PM

Exploding bolts would be cool.

spectre · 02-03-2009, 02:12 PM

Might as well get out in style...

BobaFettm · 02-03-2009, 03:34 PM

Id love to come see this car just to check it out as it gets close to finish!

A LOCAL Exige being built for SCCA... I gotta see it!!

38bfast · 02-03-2009, 03:40 PM

The shop is in Livonia. PM me and I will hook you up with Angery Sheep Motorsports.

Or come out to Waterford Hills on race weekends this summer to check out the car in action.

BobaFettm · 02-03-2009, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 38bfast

The shop is in Livonia. PM me and I will hook you up with Angery Sheep Motorsports.

Or come out to Waterford Hills on race weekends this summer to check out the car in action.

I will!!

I'll be out at Waterford also... but not with you vets! haha. With the GLLC.

fireball25f500 · 02-03-2009, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobaFettm

I will!!

I'll be out at Waterford also... but not with you vets! haha. With the GLLC.

I suspect you might see some Waterford regulars at the GLLC events. I am planning on a few of them.

Jeff / Chris / Ralph,
The T2 car looks great. Keep the pictures coming.

Jeff

BobaFettm · 02-03-2009, 07:28 PM

woot! As long as Chris doesn't mind I'll have to PM you guys and see who I can get as an instructor in my intermediate class!

lotus270 · 02-03-2009, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 38bfast

That was last year with the NA Elise. This year you can use the Exige S. The Weight of the lotus is much lower than any one else 2190 with driver.
Time will tell.

Yea the bump and grind may not be kind to the Lotus. But hey we can glue it

Door to door is not for me anymore, thats why I am going to play in NASA TT and go back to OTD. I dont like having to replace body parts because of some one who has no respect. I love racing I just hate the damage.

Hope you've got alot of glue!!

Jim A.

AZReason · 02-03-2009, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Mist

Thanks, makes sense. Can you explain NASA's logic.

Actually, your quote is for the SCCA rules.

As far as NASA TTB for the Exige, three things:

Better suspension

Lower ride height

Much better downforce

38bfast · 02-04-2009, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobaFettm

woot! As long as Chris doesn't mind I'll have to PM you guys and see who I can get as an instructor in my intermediate class!

Maybe Jeff D. or Fireball will ride with you. I have a rule that I only sit in the left seat for instructing. I can offer you a spot in the right seat of my car.

After racing door to door I just dont feel safe on the track without all the safety equipment.

You guys scare the poop out of me

38bfast · 02-06-2009, 06:06 PM

Cage is just about done

38bfast · 02-06-2009, 06:09 PM

02-03-2009, 09:15 AM	#24 (permalink)
38bfast Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Macomb MI Posts: 178	T2 is now for the most part based on HP to weight. The Exige S220 has a lighter minimum weight than the S240. They only look at factory published HP numbers when classing the car. This gets messy with Turbo and SC cars. The mid range is much stronger than a NA motor. Now to make it even more confusing you are allowed to re-flash the OE ECU. So in the case of the Lotus S220 with a re-flash you for the most part have a S240 but with the weight advantage of the S220. The S240 does not gain that much with the re-flash. This is another reason that the Pontiac solstice does so well. Turbo for one and the re-flash on that car makes much more power than OE. There is still a lot of politics’ in T2. Some cars get more mods than others. If you talk to any driver they will tell you that their car is the slowest car in the field and needs help from SCCA to make it more competitive. Even if they have just won the race. This year the runoffs are at Road America. Big long up hill straights. Not the strong suit for the Lotus. But the Lotus is almost 1000lbs lighter than any car out there. So it will turn and brake much better than the rest. Should make for some interesting racing. __________________ Ralph Provitz 2008 WHRRI SM Champion 2008 WHRRI Top 10 Driver 2006 Exige V2 Motorsports

02-03-2009, 10:55 AM	#26 (permalink)
Houston Lotus Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Houston Posts: 152	If I remember correctly there was a Lotus Elise in the T2 runoffs last year that qualified around midfield. __________________ 2005 Lotus Elise (stock) http://www.alexbrownracing.net 2002 BMW Z3 (stock) http://alexbrownracing.blogspot.com 2004 BMW E46 M3 http://www.vimeo.com/alexbrownracing 2009 Nissan Armada LE http://www.tmgracer.com/team.php 2008 Tony Kart EVXX - Alex Brown Racing 2007 Stohr Formula 1000 (FB). SCCA/NASA Race Licensed Driver. (3 Class (FB) Race Wins)

02-03-2009, 01:42 PM	#28 (permalink)
spectre the designer Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 767	No you can't, that's why you need a james bond button to escape. __________________ 2008 Exige S 240 For Sale: 2005 stock shifter console and change holder. PM if your interested.

02-03-2009, 02:10 PM	#29 (permalink)
38bfast Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Macomb MI Posts: 178	Exploding bolts would be cool. __________________ Ralph Provitz 2008 WHRRI SM Champion 2008 WHRRI Top 10 Driver 2006 Exige V2 Motorsports

02-03-2009, 02:12 PM	#30 (permalink)
spectre the designer Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 767	Might as well get out in style... __________________ 2008 Exige S 240 For Sale: 2005 stock shifter console and change holder. PM if your interested.

02-03-2009, 06:01 AM	#22 (permalink)
exige cup dr Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Smyrna, DE Posts: 46	I have given up trying to understand SCCA's reasoning with classing cars. I feel if you had the right race shop that knows the rules, the Lotus 240 S could be competitive in T2, even with the additional weight. But yes, it would be costly.

02-03-2009, 01:01 PM	#27 (permalink)
kverges Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Dallas Posts: 925	one thing that has always bothered me about the Lotus as a race car. Can you get out of that car with a helmet and HANS on and the door shut?

02-03-2009, 03:34 PM	#31 (permalink)
BobaFettm Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Adrian, MI Posts: 324	Id love to come see this car just to check it out as it gets close to finish! A LOCAL Exige being built for SCCA... I gotta see it!! __________________ bobafettm.com 2006 Lotus Exige

02-03-2009, 03:40 PM	#32 (permalink)
38bfast Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Macomb MI Posts: 178	The shop is in Livonia. PM me and I will hook you up with Angery Sheep Motorsports. Or come out to Waterford Hills on race weekends this summer to check out the car in action. __________________ Ralph Provitz 2008 WHRRI SM Champion 2008 WHRRI Top 10 Driver 2006 Exige V2 Motorsports

02-03-2009, 07:28 PM	#35 (permalink)
BobaFettm Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Adrian, MI Posts: 324	woot! As long as Chris doesn't mind I'll have to PM you guys and see who I can get as an instructor in my intermediate class! __________________ bobafettm.com 2006 Lotus Exige

02-06-2009, 06:06 PM	#39 (permalink)
38bfast Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Macomb MI Posts: 178	Cage is just about done __________________ Ralph Provitz 2008 WHRRI SM Champion 2008 WHRRI Top 10 Driver 2006 Exige V2 Motorsports

02-06-2009, 06:09 PM	#40 (permalink)
38bfast Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Macomb MI Posts: 178	__________________ Ralph Provitz 2008 WHRRI SM Champion 2008 WHRRI Top 10 Driver 2006 Exige V2 Motorsports

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