BOE Fabrication has done it again.

[Sergialized]

You are right!!!

If Phil's mist a call and sees my number, he calls me back... I have never seen that. The Lotus comunity, from my point of view is fantastic. Sector111, BWR, offers great new ideas, products and services, just to name a few I have dealt with. I don't jnow about the others, but at the end Phil is at the top of my list when it comes to customer service in all my shopping experience on the WEB. I guess some of the company that make a living out of it should take notes.

[Kris from DRS]

Glad to see another happy EFI user. Big to BOE too

[Demonized]

I don't particularly like the idea of the TVS/EFI..

but I will say, Phil is good people... Super fast, and always informative, replies to my e-mails.

[Kris from DRS]

Originally Posted by Demonized

I don't particularly like the idea of the TVS/EFI..

but I will say, Phil is good people... Super fast, and always informative, replies to my e-mails.

Don't know what there isn't to like about Phil's TVS kit. It's not the only solution, and it's great that the Lotus community has a fair number of choices. The TVS/EFI kit is just one of those choices and works well.

It's also unique in the sense that its the ONLY kit tailored for the Lotus that allows the end user to tune thier own engine if they want to (or you can use a supplied base map).

It's also the ONLY system tailored for the Lotus that uses closed-loop wideband Lambda control and allows for switchable maps on the fly.

This isn't to take anything away from the other choices. We have several customer's who we advise to use Charlie's software if they aren't going to benefit from the systems we build.

Serge is one of those customers who obviously likes what the TVS/EFI kit has to offer for his application.

Kris

[Demonized]

Originally Posted by Kris from DRS

Don't know what there isn't to like about Phil's TVS kit. It's not the only solution, and it's great that the Lotus community has a fair number of choices. The TVS/EFI kit is just one of those choices and works well.

It's also unique in the sense that its the ONLY kit tailored for the Lotus that allows the end user to tune thier own engine if they want to (or you can use a supplied base map).

It's also the ONLY system tailored for the Lotus that uses closed-loop wideband Lambda control and allows for switchable maps on the fly.

This isn't to take anything away from the other choices. We have several customer's who we advise to use Charlie's software if they aren't going to benefit from the systems we build.

Serge is one of those customers who obviously likes what the TVS/EFI kit has to offer for his application.

Kris

I'm just having trouble making sense of the temperature claims, etc, with the TVS kit, true or not I wouldn't want anywhere near 280-300whp non-intercooled... compressing air makes heat.

If someone had plans to modify their car every few weeks as a hobby, or as incremental steps toward a goal, that's fine... I've just read alot of horror stories circulating around EFI on the Lotus in general.. So I will stick with what's tried and true, and unless TVS kits come with an intercooler some time in the future, I would never consider one.

Huge credit to Phil(And you from what I've read), he is often the one who pulls through with help for alot of EFI related problems.

[charliex]

Kris mate, we've had this discussion a couple of times, the EFi standalone is not the only wideband kit, i offer the wideband control too, for those that need it.

The only thing is user tuneable, but for those who don't want to go to the extra expense and trouble of tuning it, you get to benefit from the tune thats designed for the kit so that it just works.

Maybe one day i'll even offer user tuneable.

[fzust]

Originally Posted by charliex

Maybe one day i'll even offer user tuneable.

Charlie, you're such a tease!

[Sergialized]

I should have call this Thread - Shopping Experience on the WEB
As it is turning out to mechanics preferences... with no end

This afternoon I ordered some Rota wheels (15 inches) on clearance from ForceFed now Modacar.
Had a few exchanges with customer service and finally place the order. Paid with Paypal, got my confirmation.

Next, I went to Tire Shoppe, ordered Toyos 205-50-15. Paid with Paypal, got my confirmation.

Went for a quick bite. Got back to work... look at my emails
- SORRY WE ARE SOLD OUT OF THIS WHEEL –

No explanation. I send a reply asking for explanations and got this .
- We have 1 set in stoc and received tow orders,, we process them in the order Received. I do not have any more old inventory on hand new inventory due in on 09-24-2009 - ps this is a transcript of the answer -

I send another email, explaining I had just bought tires for these wheels and asking for a phone call –
Got a phone call from John at Automod and his answer was “ It’s your problem”.

This is what I call, Customer service.

Went to RacingLab, ordered the same wheels and will get them next week.

My whole point again is Customer Service, not TVS, EFI, CHARLIE, CHRIS, FABRICATION and etc.
Customer SERVICE. When I get it I BUY!

[charliex]

Originally Posted by fzust

Charlie, you're such a tease!

heh, yeah you're one to talk, i seem to remember the BWR SC kit being advertised/announced something like 6 months before it was ready :P

i am actively looking at it, as always.

[fzust]

Point taken. It was 3 months and we told everyone 3 months. Shall I do a search on the "Red Ecu"?

[charliex]

Only if i can a do search on the BWR SC banner ad

But the red ecu is out and about being used, so i dunno what you mean about that. Seems like there is an awful lot of people talking about what i offer to people and featues i support, that really don't know what they're talking about, yet they're very happy to keep telling others, especially when it comes to offseting it against what they or others offer.

[fzust]

I am just busting your chops! Back to the "Phil is great" thread!

[turbophil]

To Serge's point about vendors, I think it really boils down to interests and passions for the marque and community... I've met some guys pretty pasionate about Lotus and coming up with some "neat stuff" for the Lotus in the last several years. Some of those guys have elected to sell the neat bits and pieces as they discovered/fabricated/programmed/etc and some have not... I'm flattered to fit in the better part of that category by some. Charlie, Ralph, Fred, Shinoo, (Brent- although he doesn't sell anything that I know of) and a couple others certainly fit in the category for me... From them, you'll get good service--- because they take pride in the bit they made and they actually care. I'd say they're Lotus enthusiasts first, business second.

Order from a parts slinging company that thought they saw the Elise/Exige market as low hanging fruit, and good luck with any real service if you ever have a problem. Your parts will not likely be coming from people that give a darn about your success with their product, IMO... When I was into Grand Nationals, it was just like the Lotus crowd. Tight group full of good hearts (despite the normal forum disagreements)--- was a small market in the 90s... Got into Bimmers and vettes and had a whole different experience... No longer have a bimmer or vette for that very reason...

Glad you got the wheels sorted Serge!

Best,

Phil

[robains]

Originally Posted by charliex

Only if i can a do search on the BWR SC banner ad

But the red ecu is out and about being used, so i dunno what you mean about that. Seems like there is an awful lot of people talking about what i offer to people and featues i support, that really don't know what they're talking about, yet they're very happy to keep telling others, especially when it comes to offseting it against what they or others offer.

I've been hearing this for over a year. My assumption that you are not providing user tunable ECU options is because:

1. You can make more money by NOT offering the option (fair enough)
2. You're concerned that your product might not be able to stack up to some of the flexibility/features in EFI system

But regardless of your reasons, for those of us that want tuning flexibility as we modify our cars over time, EFI is really the only cost effective viable option. Phil and Kris have developed EFI maps for various engine configurations which probably covers 80-85% of most Lotus owners.

Is EFI perfect? No.
Was my stock ECU perfect? No (not even close).
Is EFI moving forward with new firmware updates? Yes.
Is EFI developing newer units with even more features? Yes.
Does one worry about encrypted/restricted stock ECUs? No.
Is my stock ECU ready to roll for a CA SMOG check? Yes.

If you want to go head to head with EFI, then you'll need to make your offerings user tuneable also.

Rob.

[Kris from DRS]

Originally Posted by charliex

Kris mate, we've had this discussion a couple of times, the EFi standalone is not the only wideband kit, i offer the wideband control too, for those that need it.

The only thing is user tuneable, but for those who don't want to go to the extra expense and trouble of tuning it, you get to benefit from the tune thats designed for the kit so that it just works.

Maybe one day i'll even offer user tuneable.

didn't know you had the wideband input sorted yet. Regardless, I was just stating that the solutions are 2 different types of products with thier own sets of features for 2 different types of customers...

[Kris from DRS]

Originally Posted by fzust

I am just busting your chops! Back to the "Phil is great" thread!

way to derail some poor guy's thread

[shinoo]

Phil,

Good work.

[Kris from DRS]

Originally Posted by Demonized

I'm just having trouble making sense of the temperature claims, etc, with the TVS kit, true or not I wouldn't want anywhere near 280-300whp non-intercooled... compressing air makes heat.

If someone had plans to modify their car every few weeks as a hobby, or as incremental steps toward a goal, that's fine... I've just read alot of horror stories circulating around EFI on the Lotus in general.. So I will stick with what's tried and true, and unless TVS kits come with an intercooler some time in the future, I would never consider one.

Huge credit to Phil(And you from what I've read), he is often the one who pulls through with help for alot of EFI related problems.

the only horror stories I know of come from the angry guy.

I literally have hundreds of customers running systems we've built or support in some shape or form, many non-Lotus as well, in various types of cars (and bikes) raced in all sorts of stuff.

I think sometimes people get caught up in hype and ultimately believe what they want to.

EFI is ex-Cosworth F1 engineering...I think they have a pretty good grasp on building ECUs.

Yes, Phil helps a lot of people in general. This thread is just another example of his fine work. We (DRS) are happy to work with BOE for this reason as well.

Kris

[charliex]

Originally Posted by robains

I've been hearing this for over a year. My assumption that you are not providing user tunable ECU options is because:

1. You can make more money by NOT offering the option (fair enough)
2. You're concerned that your product might not be able to stack up to some of the flexibility/features in EFI system

But regardless of your reasons, for those of us that want tuning flexibility as we modify our cars over time, EFI is really the only cost effective viable option. Phil and Kris have developed EFI maps for various engine configurations which probably covers 80-85% of most Lotus owners.

Is EFI perfect? No.
Was my stock ECU perfect? No (not even close).
Is EFI moving forward with new firmware updates? Yes.
Is EFI developing newer units with even more features? Yes.
Does one worry about encrypted/restricted stock ECUs? No.
Is my stock ECU ready to roll for a CA SMOG check? Yes.

If you want to go head to head with EFI, then you'll need to make your offerings user tuneable also.

Rob.

1) nope
2) nope

money doesn't worry me since the number of people that actually want to tune their own ecu is very very small subset, they're vocal, but none the less a couple of %, i can offset that by the cost of the software if i wanted too

my tuning software is already used on standalone ecu's by end users including professional, semi and amatuer, its used in a couple of race series too, and has been for well over a year, so its just fine thanks, so thats not it either

i've been using the red ecu for over a year too, again more of this constant disinformation from the efi camp.

you cannot pass smog with an efi ecu, the lotus ecu has way more maps and settings than the efi, they have to pass emissions and stricter testing, thats a fact.

lotus issues new updates to cure problems, efi had to add features the car needed but didn't support, so of course they have to add updates, since it didn't work, people are stilll drilling holes in their throttle bodies it appears.

sometime last year when there was another one of thse efi vs charlie threads, and hte time before that, i pointed out we use the wide band when forcedfed/drs posted around the list of what the reflash can do vs the efi, i corrected it back then too.

I dunno where you guys come up with this stuff, again more talk about stuff you have no idea about, but yet frequently i keep seeing people telling me what i can and cannot do, you're listening to the wrong people.

the efi is catching up to our reflashes,not the other way around, we've continued to be ahead on almost everything. I do not believe we are now, or have ever played catchup too it.

as kris says, its two different markets and its a tiny percentage that need the ability to tune. I'm ok with that, i dunno why you guys need to keep up with all this astroturfing, i rarely ever mention the efi, i send people to kris who need a user tuneable solution, end of story.

to be honest, you guys don't really give me a lot of incentive to want to offer it anyway we've been over and over this ad naseum and i'm doing my best to stay out of it, it'd be great if people who offered other solutions checked facts or at least didn't offer it as authoratative answer, especially since everyone except phil i do business with anyway.

[charliex]

is this why its called a burns muffler ? just pulling this off the car right now and this is what i found... a chia pet!

first indication of it failing was that the exhaust lit up and had a nice flame to it.