1986-88 Bosch CIS K-Jetronic injected Esprit specific items - Page 4 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 
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Old 01-07-2013, 07:57 PM   #61 (permalink)
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INSTALLING BOV/CBV on HCPI/X180

Compressor Bypass Valve
Very slick installation by Phillip, 88 Esprit Turbo
See, link here:
CBV vs BOV on 88 with CIS

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Old 01-24-2013, 06:37 PM   #62 (permalink)
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What is wrong with this picture?

Little more complex than Esprit, but basically the same K-Jetro CIS.
Look carefully and tell me what is wrong here, (mechanic's mistake)?
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:52 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Long fuel injection line on right side not in center fuel line holder? A few thousand miles of abrading on that manifold and that leaking fuel line will make itself know very quickly.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:08 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Much, much bigger problem. Try again...
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:31 PM   #65 (permalink)
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This is a pair of 6 cylinder injection units. The air intakes cross banks (left and right) but the fuel lines don't. In other words, the fuel lines on each side are routed to the wrong bank.

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Old 01-26-2013, 06:45 AM   #66 (permalink)
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BINGO!
Excellent!
Good eye!
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Old 09-07-2013, 09:01 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Recently, "No start+pumps don't work" complaints are more and more frequent.
In many cases, the Engine Overspeed Module or RPM Module are the culprit. Easiest way to diagnose the problem is to borrow module from a running car and try to start the engine.
Terminal 15 is a +VE feed from the ignition (green) and 1 has a pulse from -VE coil (WS wire), both must energize and good ground to terminal 31(Black). Terminal 30 receives +12V from the battery (P wire).
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Old 10-17-2013, 10:21 AM   #68 (permalink)
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IMPORTANCE of the CYLINDER BALANCING in CIS INJECTED TURBO ENGINES

In the ideal, theoretical world, the ratio of air to fuel is 14.7:1 (called the stoichiometric ratio). It is also referred to by way of the Greek letter "Lambda". Lambda reading of 1 is the ideal air/fuel mix. At an O2 sensor reading of 1, the O2 exhaust emission is theoretically ideal...meaning the air/fuel ratio is not too rich (lambda reading less than 1), and not too lean (lambda greater than 1). At Lambda=1, the air/fuel mixture is totally burned, exhaust levels of hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, and nitrous oxide, are at a minimum.

Oxygen sensor measures the presence of O2 in the exhaust gases, (which under ideal conditions should be about 0.1 - 0.3%) and transmits the reading, thru a voltage signal, to the ECU. The ECU has the ability to interpret the voltage signals from the O2 sensor, and determine if total combustion is occurring. If total combustion does not occur, then more fuel, or less fuel, is delivered thru the injectors and into the cylinders, such that the O2 exhaust emission level stays at 0.1 - 0.3%. This cycling correction occurs several times per second, such that adjustments are being made continuously and the reading swings in a very tight band, on both sides of the Lambda reading of 1.

We have to remember that CIS mechanical injectors (if new/clean) always should flow the same amount of fuel, no matter how many there are, 4,6 or 8.
Thing to remember: CIS System pressure changes (dP/dT) are always the same across all injectors and always happen simultaneously. Individual injector flow can be adjusted/calibrated only at the Fuel Distributor head (by turning the set screws).
Air/fuel ratio corrections are constantly made by the CIS ECU (Lambda control box); by altering the duty cycle of the Frequency Valve. If Lambda readings are greater than 1 (a lean mix), the ECU increases the FV pulse width (adding more fuel). If lambda readings are less than 1 (a rich mix), the ECU decreases the FV pulse width (limiting the fuel supply). Air/fuel ratio corrections are constantly made by the CIS ECU (Lambda control box), by altering the duty cycle of the Frequency Valve.

–If lambda readings are greater than 1 (a lean mix), the ECU increases the FV pulse width bleeding out more fuel from the CP circuit which increases SP at the injectors (adding more fuel).
-If lambda readings are less than 1 (a rich mix), the ECU decreases the FV pulse width slowing the CP circuit bleed out rate. Higher CP causes drop in SP at the injectors (limiting the fuel supply).
NOTE: Fuel supply (System Pressure) adjustments in the CIS system are executed by a very precise metering device, the Fuel Distributor Head. FDH adjusts fuel delivery simultaneously, across all 4 injectors/cylinders. FDH is not capable to “compensate” or differentiate if one or more injector is clogged or faulty.
In a "perfect" engine... all injectors should flow the same exact cc volume of fuel,as shown below. Let's assume there are a 14.7:1 air/fuel ratio and a lambda exhaust reading of 1 (total combustion).
NOTE: The use of 100cc flow rate in the examples is for illustrative purposes only.
Let's assume the ideal fuel flow to burn all oxygen drawn into the cylinders is:
Injector #1=100cc; #2=100cc; #3=100cc; #4=100cc; Total 4cylinders =400cc
We expect the volume of fuel to be (almost) totally burned, and O2 exhaust content to be in a prescribed range of 0.1 to 0.3 %

a) Let's look what happens if 2 injectors are "dirty" and don't flow 100cc as the other two injectors.
Injector #1=90cc; # 2=90cc; # 3=100cc; # 4=100cc; Total=380cc. 20cc “short”!
In this example, the O2 sensor will read a lean mixture, as injectors #1 and 2 are under fueled, and there is excess O2 in the exhaust gases. ECU “wants” to add more fuel to restore cc flow rate to 400cc, as per below.

b) Injector #1=93.33cc; 2=93.33cc; 3=103.33cc; 4=103.33cc; Total=400cc
The ECU, has adjusted the fuel supply to 4 injectors simultaneously and by the same increment (CIS Fuel Distributor can not adjust flow to individual cylinders), such that the total cc flow volume returns to 400cc, and lambda returns to 1. While this appears to be a somewhat better than our condition a), it is NOT what “really” happens.
The O2 Sensor is reading cumulative median O2 exhaust content in the main exhaust stream (down pipe). Injectors (therefore cylinders) #1 and #2 are still under-fueled. The O2 sensor still reads a lean overall mixture, as there is still unburned O2 present in the exhaust from under- fueling of cylinders 1 and 2. The ECU continues to increase flow of the fuel, until the medianO2 content returns to 0.1-0.3% . That is when cylinders 1 and 2 are at stoichiometric. Injectors 3 & 4 become over fueled, as their O2 exhaust content has reached minimum and regardless how much additional fuel is added to #3 &4, no additional O2 will be burned, as there is no more available.

So, the actual end result of the adjustment performed by ECU is:
c) Injector #1=100cc; 2=100cc; 3=110cc; 4=110cc; Total flow=420cc FAT by 20cc!
While the O2 (cumulative!) content is now perfect, (according to the O2 sensor...all O2 has now been used), the HC (hydrocarbon) exhaust content is high due to unburned fuel in #3 and #4, and the carbon monoxide content is likewise high. The vehicle fails emission standards, suffers from poor performance, poor fuel economy.

This example illustrates why the air/fuel delivery to each cylinder has to be tested and balanced, (injector cleaning and CIS Fuel Distributor cylinder to cylinder calibration). Every cylinder must receive the same exact amount of air/fuel mix. If there is a cylinder to cylinder imbalance, the O2 sensor cannot detect it and ECU can not compensate flow to the individual injectors (drawback of the CIS injection system). Injectors have to be tested individually on a test bench, ultrasonically cleaned and flow tested. Only then O2 sensor/ECU readings can be trusted.

Now, let’s see what happens when we go into "OPEN LOOP" at WOT.
At WOT, more air is drawn into the engine (max air flow); therefore more fuel is required to meet 14.7:1 ratio. For the purpose of illustration, let’s assume 10% enrichment at WOT is presumed necessary.
At cruising speed, "prior" to WOT (still in closed loop)...we have the following:
a) Injector #1=100cc; 2=100cc; 3=100cc; 4=100cc; Total=400cc
At WOT the air flow increases to the max, engine goes "open loop", O2 sensor readings are ignored, and the ECU adds the pre-set amount of fuel across all injectors, equally and simultaneously, and we should get:
d) Injector #1=110cc; #2=110cc; #3=110cc; #4=110cc; Total Flow=440cc
Extra fuel had been added, all oxygen burnt, HP is maintained and engine temperature stays within limits.

Now...let's look at what happens if two injectors are "fouled". Remember, when system goes "open loop", no O2 sensor is used, and the fueling is "base mapped", which added a 10% across the board.
e) Injector #1=100cc; #2=100cc; #3=110cc; #4=110cc; Flow=420cc. 20cc short!
Injectors #1 and #2 are under fueled, even with the 10% additional fuel. Cylinders #1 and #2 are lean, detonating and overheating, which results in burnt exhaust valves or burnt pistons. Engine hand grenades!

This example illustrates why the air/fuel delivery to each cylinder has to be tested and balanced, (injector cleaning and CIS Fuel Distributor cylinder to cylinder calibration are the "must do"). Every cylinder shall receive the same exact amount of air/fuel mix. If there is a cylinder to cylinder imbalance, the O2 sensor cannot detect it and ECU can not compensate flow to the individual injectors (drawback of the CIS injection system). Injectors have to be replaced or tested individually on a test bench, cleaned and flow matched to within 5%. Only then O2 sensor/ECU readings can be trusted.
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Old 01-11-2014, 09:09 AM   #69 (permalink)
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X180 Chargecooler

Anyone considering adding a chargecooler circuit to the Pre-SE Esprit Turbo may benefit from reading this thread.

Boatload of very good technical information, including water pump characteristics:

Understanding Intercooling, Charge-Coolers, Heat Exchangers and Circulation Pumps - MBWorld.org Forums
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Old 02-16-2014, 06:38 PM   #70 (permalink)
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X180 TURBO

Here is a very interesting turbo forum

The Turbo Forums
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Old 02-17-2014, 05:04 PM   #71 (permalink)
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The K-Jet system is also affected by cylinder balance. If one or more cylinders have low compression or a problem with the ignition system the motor will be "unbalanced". When that cylinder fires it won't have the same power so the motor will slow down. By the time the ECU recognizes the problem the motor is already past that cylinder so the ECU overshoots (overcompensates). Same problem with the idle system. So you have multiple competing systems cycling which creates a hunting or a bad quality idle. Not as noticeable at higher RPM's because any one cylinder becomes a smaller and smaller fraction at any particular instant. Just something inherent in a mechanical constant delivery fuel injection system. K-Jet is basically a mechanical fuel injection system with an electronically controlled supplemental system grafted onto it. Bottom lining this, each cylinder must be as closely adjusted to the others as possible as far as combustion pressure, valve adjustments, spark plugs, injectors, et al. BTW, you did not mention vacuum leaks. Not only are they a big issue because of "False Air" (air NOT metered by the air sensor plate) they can create a local lean condition for the nearest cylinder. This, as you point out, CANNOT be compensated for by the fuel delivery system since the injectors are all supposed to output the same amount of fuel!
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Old 03-04-2014, 08:58 AM   #72 (permalink)
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X180 KNOCK SENSOR

Yes, I agree.
Also, see posting #37

Unbalanced carbs or CIS injectors may (will) cause detonation.
89+ Esprits have a knock sensor circuit built into the ECU, however pre89 cars don't have any defense mechanism.

THERE IS A SOLUTION,THOUGH.
To be on the safe side, you may install a Single channel "Vampire" individual cylinder anti-knock detector/processor.
Mike Rodrigues runs S&J box and Bosch sensor on this 400+HP modified 87 Turbo (for over 5 years, now), with great results.

Like I like to say:
"I'd like to be the second successful user of the specific gadget or innovative technology"
I plan to install mine this summer.
Well...,
if you can plan any project on Esprit, LOL.

http://jandssafeguard.com/index.html


• How it works:
The system makes a spark, then decides if there was knock. If knock is detected, software "knows" it had to come from the cylinder that just fired, and that cylinder won't fire again for two revolutons.
When that cylinder comes up to fire the next time, software dials in the calculated amount of knock retard. It does this as each cylinder goes by, building up a different timing curve for each cylinder if knock is detected.
The unit retards in steps, a total of ten steps are possible. Each step is one or two degrees, depending on a user mode switch. When knock is detected, software retards in proportion to knock intensity.
The unit responds to inaudible knock, and retards quickly enough to prevent knock from becoming audible. The re-advance rate is one step every twenty revolutions. Note that the unit will not advance beyond stock timing. Of course, you may choose to bump the timing a bit after installing the unit.
Articles on knock:
http://www.streetrod....ne/Detonation/
http://www.avweb.com...n/182132-1.html
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Old 03-04-2014, 09:31 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Just keep layering more and more complicated systems on top of each other to compensate for each one's shortcomings. The fun really begins when something doesn't work like it is supposed to. What some have done is to remove the K-Jet and build an after-market EFI system like Mega-Squirt. I prefer the KISS system of engineering (Keep It Simple Stupid). Or as Murphy said, any complex system that works evolved from a simple system that worked.
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Old 03-04-2014, 10:48 AM   #74 (permalink)
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X180 CIS K-Jetronic

David,

No car is simple any more.

Let's be realistic, Esprits carry several defficiencies which have to be dealt with.
Lack of the anti-knock sensor is one of them (from the long list).

IMO:
-Converting to EFI is too easy.
-Making CIS system to do whatever you wish/want indicates possession of consummate skills.
Proof:
Group A Volvo Specs

At last, for some of us
"The journey not the arrival matters." -- T. S. Eliot
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:12 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtrealty View Post
Just keep layering more and more complicated systems on top of each other to compensate for each one's shortcomings. The fun really begins when something doesn't work like it is supposed to. What some have done is to remove the K-Jet and build an after-market EFI system like Mega-Squirt. I prefer the KISS system of engineering (Keep It Simple Stupid). Or as Murphy said, any complex system that works evolved from a simple system that worked.
David Teitelbaum
im with you on that one. Having to deal with older merc's with these systems are terrible. For the price of the fuel distributor alone you could have bought and tuned a modern day standalone with 1000x better mpg, performance and drivability. Unless it's a show car or some very very special edition you're really in for some pain and suffering in both mental and wallet department sticking with this. Im in no means saying it doesnt work properly when everything is new or setup correctly, but odds of getting it dialed in are slim to none. Factor in changes in altitude and ambient air temps cannot be compensated for all that well either. Most systems have extra injectors for cold start. This stuff made sense in the 50's but is way outdated for anything mid 80's or 90's.
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:54 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadtalontsi View Post
[snip] Having to deal with older merc's with these systems are terrible. For the price of the fuel distributor alone [snip] Unless it's a show car or some very very special edition you're really in for some pain and suffering in both mental and wallet department sticking with this. Im in no means saying it doesnt work properly when everything is new or setup correctly, but odds of getting it dialed in are slim to none. Factor in changes in altitude and ambient air temps cannot be compensated for all that well either. Most systems have extra injectors for cold start. This stuff made sense in the 50's but is way outdated for anything mid 80's or 90's.
That is nothing like my experience with Bosch CIS.

I may have an advantage living in mild California weather. I have over 100K miles with Bosch CIS (76 Scirocco conversion from carb to CIS -78 Rabbit with 1.5L Bosch CIS, about 80K miles) with narly a stumble.

My wife's friend has an 83 Scirocco (Bosch CIS-E) with 350K (three hundred fifty thousand miles) on the ORIGINAL fuel distributor and likely the same injectors (pump is unknown but those last about 150K miles).

She bought the car new in Pennsylvania and moved to San Jose, CA in 1998. The heater doesn't work, the AC gave up the ghost decades ago, but the Bosch fuel side has been uneventful. It even passed CA smog (which is fairly stringent) in the last 2 years. We are talking 2014 folks and it's still running DAILY. The only nod to its old age - I convinced her to strip an 84 Scirocco (240K miles) of its fuel distributor as a spare unit. It has 100K miles LESS than her 350K fuel distributor and cost only $50 in 2011.

Ironically, her 1993 VW Corrado VR6 (Bosch Motronic) with 90K miles failed CA smog in 2012 due to a bad temp sensor (?). This was also bought new.

I picked my Esprit SPECIFICALLY because it had Bosch CIS - familiarity helped. The turbo side of the house makes it interesting, but again, if you look at the diagrams, it's simpler due to its primarily mechanical/primitive electronics nature.

At 59K miles, I'm not worried about the next 100K miles for the Bosch CIS.
It passed CA smog in 2011 (30K miles) and 2012 (42K miles) with plenty of margin. If there was any hiccup in the Bosch CIS, trust me - it will show up on a CA smog test.

Although parts availability will definitely be worse than the GM FI on the later Esprits.
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Old 03-06-2014, 11:09 AM   #77 (permalink)
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I know for my 1988 car the CIS stuff will never be going back on it when I rebuild the engine. It will be Megasquirt EFI and crank-fired distributorless ignition. Since I don't know exactly what caused the badly burnt pistons I am not going to subject a new motor to possibly bad CIS FI which I have zero knowledge (or desire) of how to debug. However with the experience of using Megasquirt on the Lotus 907 motor in my Jensen-Healey I am WAY more comfortable with that.
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Old 03-06-2014, 11:38 AM   #78 (permalink)
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BTW, I ended up having to put a 100 micron filter between the tanks and high pressure bosch style external pump on my fuel injected Jensen-Healay too. This seemed to solve the problem of large particles of crud from the tanks wiping out the pump.

The one I used is one that unscrews so the metal mesh screen can be cleaned periodically.
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Old 03-06-2014, 01:58 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRDANGERUS View Post
David,

No car is simple any more.

Let's be realistic, Esprits carry several defficiencies which have to be dealt with.
Lack of the anti-knock sensor is one of them (from the long list).

IMO:
-Converting to EFI is too easy.
-Making CIS system to do whatever you wish/want indicates possession of consummate skills.
Proof:
Group A Volvo Specs

At last, for some of us
"The journey not the arrival matters." -- T. S. Eliot
For all of the effort and cost you will spend in converting to an EFI set-up you could fix up your K-jet system quicker and cheaper. Of course it can never do what an EFI system can and if the challenge of the project is what you want then go for it and convert. Keep in mind as you deviate from stock the value of the car goes down. In any case keep good documentation so you can service and trouble-shoot the system because no one else will.
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Old 03-23-2014, 08:13 AM   #80 (permalink)
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X330 Extreme Esprit Turbo

I'm not interested in selling my car or butchering her by converting to EFI.

Re-engineering her into "Extreme Lotus X330" has been a joy and a form of PRIME entertainment.
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