97 V8 in Sac: good deal? - Page 2 - LotusTalk

lotuson74 · 06-14-2007, 05:38 AM

Jeff, That is simply no so. I have put about 650 hp. through 4 of these cars (two 04's, one 99 & one 97) without ANY transmission trouble & I lived in SoCal whare I put three of these cars into 5th gear at full throttle daily if not multiple times daily to speeds of 160 to 180!!! The only trans. issue I had was: When I made the mistake of telling my dealer that the car (the 04) would grind into 2nd. when being hurried. Lotus removed and replaced the entire transmission under warantee (without notice to me!) Now my car has a damn "rebuilt" transmission that IS NOT as tight as my original. But even it has taken all the power I give it!

JeffYoung · 06-14-2007, 05:41 AM

Kirk, you are an island of one on this issue. Enjoy your car!

Plus, if you are driving at 160-180 on the street, dude...chill. You are going to kill someone.

lotuson74 · 06-14-2007, 05:54 AM

Actually, I said a MAXIMUM of $27,000. The economy is bad today & there are still Esprits available out there. No one needs to keep the car "forever" and if it is built right, you are crazy to think you can't get $50 to $70,000 for that car. Either crazy or a bad salesman. Remember, I got $80,000 for my 99!
Besides, if you think you will "need" to sell it - you should NOT be in the market for an ultra high performance exotic car!! This is just the type of person that will not care properly for the car & make ones like mine even more rare (and valuable) Don't enter the stock market for the short term.
"I tried to learn something new each day but... I found out that I already know everything!"

lotuson74 · 06-14-2007, 05:57 AM

I'm alone on my own island. No one to kill. Really, moved to the east coast - roads wont support those speeds safely.

JeffYoung · 06-14-2007, 05:59 AM

Kirk, the hole you are digging for your credibility is getting deeper and deeper. I will guarantee you that in the next 5 years, NO 97 Esprit will sell for $70k.

I don't believe you got $80k for your 99 and if you did it was not representative of what 99.999999 percent of those cars sell for.

Kirk, not all of us are trust fund kids. We own cars like the Esprit and take care of them. But sometimes, we need to sell. Your statements above about "if you will ever need to sell, you shouldn't own one" are offensive.

So it goes....

lotuson74 · 06-14-2007, 06:19 AM

Just so you know, I am 42, & Design fitness centers for a living (what I did in Calif.) As for credability... talk to someone who knows me. Plus, I will EARN more of it up in Lime Rock Park on the 19th. as will the Esprit also! I traded that 99 Esprit for a New Radical SR-4 with 1500 power-tech motor and fuel injection, dry sump, up rated Willwood brakes, center lock wheels, ect. You go check what those cars cost (at least $80,000) Don't call me a liar! But I will call you a poor salesman if you can only get $40,000 for a properly built 97 Esprit.

lotuson74 · 06-14-2007, 06:34 AM

Esprit's should cost $200,000 plus just to keep them out of peoples hands who cannot afford an exotic car! That is what the Esprit is: a ultra performance exotic car! These things are expensive! I am Not trying to offend anyone. Just be realistic & never put yourself in a desperate situation whare you will "need to sell". Sell as a desire NOT a need.

StallionX · 06-14-2007, 06:44 AM

100k on a new esprit (or any new exotic) only to lose 50% of the cars value 4 years later..

this is life.. and unless you buy an NSX or 308 ferrari that you never drive.. you are GOING to be LOSING money.. go into this with that thinking and you will be ok..

I put 15k+ into my esprit, I can give two flying ****s if I never get it back.. You go into these cars (or any toy) thinking of it as an investment and you're bound for dissapointment.

Again, a 97-99 esprit should still be worth 40's.. and that is what any decent one is worth.. you need to stop pointing out the crappers and panic sales..

There are VERY few of these cars for sale in the US.. and there is only one reason the value would drop below 40k on a 99..the car has a STORY or the buy just wants to unload it fast..

the car in this advertisement is going WAYYY cheap.. there is obviously a reason for it..

StallionX · 06-14-2007, 07:09 AM

Jeffyoung,

here we go again man.. dude I have to ask you honestly what is your hatred on these cars? It's friggin GLARINGLY obvious

There are so few esprits available that the "market" isn't stable whatsoever.. sure the price might drop very low, then again it might skyrocket when no esprits are selling on ebay.. if a dude wants an esprit and only 4 v8's are available he WILL pay what it takes to get the car.. supply and demand.. it's the crap reputation on these cars that are developed by people like Jeffyoung and a few others that DRIVE the value down..

look at the Acura NSX.. you can drive that car 50k miles and own it 4 years and lose like 2k on the whole deal (if that).. it's a wonder and straight up INCREDIBLE fact of those cars, oh and they rarely have issues and last FOREVER (200k miles is NOTHING).. but you know what they don't have? character.. exotic soul.. I would rather buy a ferrari 348 that is going to cause me major stress every 30k miles than an NSX..

That is what the Lotus Esprit is.. it's a car that will cost you in maintenance but that is the price you pay to own the car.. If you are willing to pay it you are willing to own it..period.. that is why I see 50x the number of NSX's out there than Esprits and Ferrari's..

I am going to be frank, I am 30 and if I wasn't making over 150k a year I would not have purchased this toy because I would be crying the blues about maintenance and other issues.. As it stands I am still not thrilled to pay what I pay on it.. but the problem here is many people making 60k a year (which is a good salary) purchase these cars at 40k to own an exotic then they straight up cannot afford to maintain it.. SELL it at 28k just to save their asses and drive the value down..

If next year comes around and my income is less or I need extra money for investments I might sell the car.. we'll see.. then i'll buy the NSX just to own an exotic without the hassles.. but if I feel like spending the cash then by all means I will keep the Esprit.

I met lotuson74 last week.. very nice guy with a very expensive stable.. with all the experience he has on these cars and the modding he has done to all of them, I'm sorry but you gotta give the guy credit for at least knowing what he is talking about.. because he has done A LOT of work to his cars (all of them) and I wouldn't question his knowledge at all..

It is how you drive the v8 tranny's BTW.. when I first got mine I broke the mainshaft in 1 month.. then I stopped driving the car like a viper and have driven 10,000 miles with the tranny perfect.. learned my lesson and the car is running dandy..

JeffYoung · 06-14-2007, 07:22 AM

First, Kirk, my bad on the trust fund kid stuff. Inappropriate and wrong. I apologize.

Stallion, I loved my Esprit. I would argue that it is guys like you adn Lotus who cause more problems in the Esprit community with poorly thought out mods, and posting about 600 whp with no problems, and claiming he cars are worth far more than they are because they are worth that to you (which is fine by teh way). THAT is what results in folks buying these cars who shouldn't.

The most critical thing for a potential Esprit buyer to be is REALISTIC. Realistic about what he is getting and what it will cost to maintain the car.

Most of what you guys post is NOT realistic.

By the way, to the extent it matters, I make significantly more than you. I'm not some who bought an Esprit and couldnt' afford to keep it up. I did. I just tired of the Esprit experience, wanted a better track car, and bought the Exige, and got more involved in actual racing.

StallionX · 06-14-2007, 07:26 AM

Jeff,

the mods I have on my car are NOT poorly thought out, they are considered safe by most v8 owners.. I never questioned your income nor am I implying you couldn't afford your cars. However if you make significantly more than I do I (btw you don't know how much I make, simply that it was over 150) would assume you are making 500k+ a year.. then why in the name of hell do you even complain about the esprit maintenance? come on man 12k for an engine rebuild must be peanuts for you!

But one has to question why you are so insistent on calling these cars such crap.. MUST I dig up the full on hater posts(your words are "REALISTIC" but its clear when you say realistic it's just your PC was of saying you think the car is crap) you have listed here to prove myself again?

While Lotus and I like the esprits and feel they are worth more, there will always be people that disagree (that would be you)..

I think you repeatedly posting your opinion as fact is obnoxious, and how old are you BTW?

JeffYoung · 06-14-2007, 07:40 AM

You and some "Red Menace" dude said repeatedly I didn't maintain my car.

You are in an extreme minority of 2 in your opinion of (a) the strength of the UN1 gearbox and the effect of "driving it right" -- which only helps the synchros, and not the issues with the mainshaft WHICH WAS THE MAIN ARTICLE IN LOTUS LTD'S NEWSLETTER THIS MONTH; (b) the wisdom of your modifications and (c) the value of these cars on the opinion market. Read the Fact File. Read LEW. My "opinions" may be opinions like everyone else's but they are by far the majority opinion as expressed by the majority of the Esprit community, of which I was (and remain) a member since 2002.

Esprit values are pretty well recognized to be:

S1s and S2s --- $7 to $12k

Turbo Esprits -- $10-15k

HCIs -- slightly more

Esprit Turbos (non SEs) -- $12-16k

SEs - $15-25k

S4 -- $22-30k.

S4s -- $28k to $35k

97-99 V8s -- $35 to $45k

00, 01, 02s -- low $40s to low $50s

03 and 04s are special cases at the moment because of their "final edition" status. They will depreciate and be no more valuable than an 01 or 02 within 5 years or so.

That's the facts ma'am.

P.S. I'm 38.

StallionX · 06-14-2007, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffYoung

Stallion, I loved my Esprit. I would argue that it is guys like you adn Lotus who cause more problems in the Esprit community

I just have you reiterate that I think you are a DEAD wrong.. me and lotus are huge enthusiasts and Esprit lovers who gush about our cars.. WE are the kind of people the community needs, who the hell wants a someone who is constantly bashing these cars in the community.. no thanks I'll take the people who have dealt with esprit maintenance and love it..

StallionX · 06-14-2007, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffYoung

You and some "Red Menace" dude said repeatedly I didn't maintain my car.

You are in an extreme minority of 2 in your opinion of (a) the strength of the UN1 gearbox and the effect of "driving it right" -- which only helps the synchros, and not the issues with the mainshaft WHICH WAS THE MAIN ARTICLE IN LOTUS LTD'S NEWSLETTER THIS MONTH; (b) the wisdom of your modifications and (c) the value of these cars on the opinion market. Read the Fact File. Read LEW. My "opinions" may be opinions like everyone else's but they are by far the majority opinion as expressed by the majority of the Esprit community, of which I was (and remain) a member since 2002.

Esprit values are pretty well recognized to be:

S1s and S2s --- $7 to $12k

Turbo Esprits -- $10-15k

HCIs -- slightly more

Esprit Turbos (non SEs) -- $12-16k

SEs - $15-25k

S4 -- $22-30k.

S4s -- $28k to $35k

97-99 V8s -- $35 to $45k

00, 01, 02s -- low $40s to low $50s

03 and 04s are special cases at the moment because of their "final edition" status. They will depreciate and be no more valuable than an 01 or 02 within 5 years or so.

That's the facts ma'am.

P.S. I'm 38.

Some of your points are valid but CERTAINLY not all of them. Johan, TheRedMenace, Gmendoza and many other v8's owners can chime in and disagree with your assesment of the v8's..

I agree the used values seem to be close to what you are saying, however I see prices all over the place.. and your low end values are the absolute lowest.. and again.. with only 13 v8's selling in the US now.. how can you be certain the values wont change? this isn't a boxster man it's not a common car.. I also want to mention that while the car may depreciate, it's our benefit.. just like how the generation 3 viper (which is BY FAR better than the gen 2, except perhaps in the looks dept) has dropped to 40's for an 03, and you can get yourself a 996 twin turbo for 40's as well (this is a 140k car) sometimes the used market favors the buyers BIGTIME.. as is the case with the esprit.. you get a 100k car for 1/2 that.. not bad.. I'm not complaining

the elise market went to HELL and now is climbing back up.. Esprit can do the same..

honestly dude, you are just very negative and it's clear that whenever you defend your all out negativity and call it "realistic" that is when things get obvious.. and at 38 I would expect a little more optimism from you, especially if you are making the kind of money you claim, I find it hard to believe you would give two craps about maintenance etc.

This is the internet though and crap flows freely here.. so arguing with you is just getting stale and pointless, perhaps if we meet someday we can have an intelligent convo..

JeffYoung · 06-14-2007, 08:16 AM

The Esprit market has been on a steady decline ever since I began following it (say 2001, when I started looking for an SE or S4). I and most others suspect that it has not bottomed out and won't until the "best" 4 pots get down to 15-20k, with the V8s slitghtly more than that -- 20-25k. At some point, it will start to climb again just because the cars are rare. Right now, there just is not a large market for Esprits.

That's conjecture though I agree. But it is conjecture backed by about 15 years of experience with depreciation on the car.

I will agree with you that one of the things that hurts the value of the car is the large number of poorly maintained piece of crap Esprits that are out there. Not the car's fault, the owner's. I drove 3 cars that were barely hanging on for life before I found a very nice SE with 18,000 for $29k in 03. I put about $8k in it over the almost 4 years I owned it (including tires and brakes though, and a clutch, which are really consumables). Not bad really.

When I sold it, it needed an a/c compressor and had some scuffing on the paint on two corners of the bumpers. I got the bumpers painted for $400 by Lotus of Durham, and sold the car for $21k. I wanted a more dedicated track car than the Esprit, so I got an Exige.

I do remember Red Menace calling about my car now. He was quite possibly the rudest guy I have ever dealt with on the phone. I told him about the a/c, the bumper scuffs and mentioned that the driver's seat bolster had what I view (after looking at many Esprits) to be normal scuffing. From that I got several long e-mail and voice mail rants from him about how I was treating my car like crap, etc. etc. etc. Avoid the Menace, he's not sane.

You guys don't seem like bad guys, just still caught up in "I own an Esprit" euphoria, and arent' realistic about the car. The car IS a cobbled together slightly better than kit car quality (I would say that Nobles are better built) vehicle manufactured by an innovative design firm. Lotus did a GREAT job with what it had....limited resources and a Frankenstein-ish parts bin. Lotus created at first a 4 pot car that was one of the fastest CARs (much less 4 cylinder car) on teh planet, and a V8 on a shoestring budget that once the "in the field" development was complete (Lotus is famous for that, just ask a Jensen Healey owner) turned out to be a pretty good motor (although the ones I have heard sound like a box of rocks just like my 4 pot did).

That's the realistic picture of what an Esprit is, and is not. An incredible, but by the late 90s long in the tooth, performance car cobbled together on a shoestring budget by a low volume, underdog manufacture.

I guess you see that satement as some sort of insult. Frankly for me, it was part of the charm of the car and one of the reasons I really enjoyed it. Lotus created something special out of not a whole lot. Have to give them props for that. But also have to be realistic about it.

I mean, your tranny is from a Renault delivery van! My door latches (on a car that listed for $85k, I have the sticker, in 93) are from an Austina Marina/TR7! My steering wheel (and yours too unless you changed it) is from an early 90s Firebird! My rear brakes were from a Renault Le Car!

StallionX · 06-14-2007, 09:03 AM

JeffYoung,
I'm confused by what you are trying to prove with this "information" in every ****ing post.. I have owned plenty of exotic cars, and um Lotus74 has a FLEET of cars as expensive or more expensive than the esprit.. WTF are you talking about.. we like the esprit's bottom line..

Fine it's a kit car piece of **** can we just drop this convo now?

SteelrzLotus · 06-14-2007, 09:26 AM

I have to agree, JEFFYOUNG, ever since I have been on this board I have seen you post over and over again about nothing but problems with these cars. If you hate the Esprit V8's so much why do you own one and why are you here? Go buy a Z06 and relax

IamBatman · 06-14-2007, 11:23 AM

guys, its a car...try not to make it personal. people have opinions... you can disagree and still be friends

lotuson74 · 06-14-2007, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by serpentor

guys, its a car...try not to make it personal. people have opinions... you can disagree and still be friends

The problem here is that opinions are being calld "facts" or "realistic about the car" as if one man's "opinion" is a fact (it is not!) Now, this is for everyone else who reads this thread; I deal in "REALITY" what I say is what I have actually done (not a speculation or guess or what others say/think and so on...) and I even tell when & whare I am willing to prove it. We can all guess or speculate what the cars are worth - who cares after you pass Ferrari's and Porsche's all day at the track? What I can say with certainty is: every time my car goes to the track, it goes up in value to everyone there! And I traded my 99 Esprit for a Radical SR-4 that was worth over $80,000 (FACT not speculation). Also Jeff, I want to like you but you are making it hard! You said: you sold your Esprit for something (an Exige) that was more of a track car. Please tell me in advance what track you will be on so that I can prove you wrong about that! First, I will pass you with ease. Then two laps later, I will pass you with ease again. Just kidding - but I will pass you with ease!
One last thing - Jeff said the Noble is a better built car. One of my good friends has the M-400. The fit and finish is better in some ways but the engineering is not there like in the Esprit. It feels far more like an Elise, not as much like a car as the Esprit does. It feels & looks like the kit car that it is. If you think it is hard to get the Esprit serviced - Get a Noble & have a warantee issue (there will be many!) and you will see what hard is! My friend's is currenty having big brake issues. It is very fast in all performance aspects (I have driven it) But I honestly would be afraid to push it on a track as it has had just too many serious issues that affect safty!

JeffYoung · 06-14-2007, 01:31 PM

Kirk, you seem like a nice dude, but reality (it's a $200k car! I have 26 psi with no problems! the Esprit is a better track car!) is not where you live my friend.

I thought my last post was about as accurate a picture of the Esprit as can be fairly drawn. Again, I will tell you that it is essentially the same opinion held by most everyone in the Esprit community.

Done guys. Like serpent says, we have a difference of opinion. Check back with me in a couple of years. I will be interested to see where you guys are with your cars.

P.S> Kirk, I think there is an S1 Exige that is going to hand you your ass at LRP this weekend.

06-14-2007, 05:38 AM	#21 (permalink)
lotuson74 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 567	Jeff, That is simply no so. I have put about 650 hp. through 4 of these cars (two 04's, one 99 & one 97) without ANY transmission trouble & I lived in SoCal whare I put three of these cars into 5th gear at full throttle daily if not multiple times daily to speeds of 160 to 180!!! The only trans. issue I had was: When I made the mistake of telling my dealer that the car (the 04) would grind into 2nd. when being hurried. Lotus removed and replaced the entire transmission under warantee (without notice to me!) Now my car has a damn "rebuilt" transmission that IS NOT as tight as my original. But even it has taken all the power I give it! __________________ Kirk Will this do??? Artic silver Elise, Ohlins, Monolites, Q.S. header Arqray Ti. & more 99 Sport 190 Elise 02 Mini Cooper S 03 Dinan BMW S-3 Supercharged X-5 4.6is 06 F-250 Diesel, 11 inch lift, 1000lb ft. hauler 04 Radical SR-4 Racecar 97 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 04 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 90 Nissan 300 zx TT showcar with 680 r.w.h.p.!! 02 BMW 330i (needed something practical!) 06 BMW M5 with Schnitzer & Dinan mods. (3) Racebikes built by Richard of Attack Racing

06-14-2007, 05:54 AM	#23 (permalink)
lotuson74 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 567	Actually, I said a MAXIMUM of $27,000. The economy is bad today & there are still Esprits available out there. No one needs to keep the car "forever" and if it is built right, you are crazy to think you can't get $50 to $70,000 for that car. Either crazy or a bad salesman. Remember, I got $80,000 for my 99! Besides, if you think you will "need" to sell it - you should NOT be in the market for an ultra high performance exotic car!! This is just the type of person that will not care properly for the car & make ones like mine even more rare (and valuable) Don't enter the stock market for the short term. "I tried to learn something new each day but... I found out that I already know everything!" __________________ Kirk Will this do??? Artic silver Elise, Ohlins, Monolites, Q.S. header Arqray Ti. & more 99 Sport 190 Elise 02 Mini Cooper S 03 Dinan BMW S-3 Supercharged X-5 4.6is 06 F-250 Diesel, 11 inch lift, 1000lb ft. hauler 04 Radical SR-4 Racecar 97 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 04 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 90 Nissan 300 zx TT showcar with 680 r.w.h.p.!! 02 BMW 330i (needed something practical!) 06 BMW M5 with Schnitzer & Dinan mods. (3) Racebikes built by Richard of Attack Racing

06-14-2007, 05:57 AM	#24 (permalink)
lotuson74 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 567	I'm alone on my own island. No one to kill. Really, moved to the east coast - roads wont support those speeds safely. __________________ Kirk Will this do??? Artic silver Elise, Ohlins, Monolites, Q.S. header Arqray Ti. & more 99 Sport 190 Elise 02 Mini Cooper S 03 Dinan BMW S-3 Supercharged X-5 4.6is 06 F-250 Diesel, 11 inch lift, 1000lb ft. hauler 04 Radical SR-4 Racecar 97 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 04 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 90 Nissan 300 zx TT showcar with 680 r.w.h.p.!! 02 BMW 330i (needed something practical!) 06 BMW M5 with Schnitzer & Dinan mods. (3) Racebikes built by Richard of Attack Racing

06-14-2007, 06:19 AM	#26 (permalink)
lotuson74 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 567	Just so you know, I am 42, & Design fitness centers for a living (what I did in Calif.) As for credability... talk to someone who knows me. Plus, I will EARN more of it up in Lime Rock Park on the 19th. as will the Esprit also! I traded that 99 Esprit for a New Radical SR-4 with 1500 power-tech motor and fuel injection, dry sump, up rated Willwood brakes, center lock wheels, ect. You go check what those cars cost (at least $80,000) Don't call me a liar! But I will call you a poor salesman if you can only get $40,000 for a properly built 97 Esprit. __________________ Kirk Will this do??? Artic silver Elise, Ohlins, Monolites, Q.S. header Arqray Ti. & more 99 Sport 190 Elise 02 Mini Cooper S 03 Dinan BMW S-3 Supercharged X-5 4.6is 06 F-250 Diesel, 11 inch lift, 1000lb ft. hauler 04 Radical SR-4 Racecar 97 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 04 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 90 Nissan 300 zx TT showcar with 680 r.w.h.p.!! 02 BMW 330i (needed something practical!) 06 BMW M5 with Schnitzer & Dinan mods. (3) Racebikes built by Richard of Attack Racing

06-14-2007, 06:34 AM	#27 (permalink)
lotuson74 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 567	Esprit's should cost $200,000 plus just to keep them out of peoples hands who cannot afford an exotic car! That is what the Esprit is: a ultra performance exotic car! These things are expensive! I am Not trying to offend anyone. Just be realistic & never put yourself in a desperate situation whare you will "need to sell". Sell as a desire NOT a need. __________________ Kirk Will this do??? Artic silver Elise, Ohlins, Monolites, Q.S. header Arqray Ti. & more 99 Sport 190 Elise 02 Mini Cooper S 03 Dinan BMW S-3 Supercharged X-5 4.6is 06 F-250 Diesel, 11 inch lift, 1000lb ft. hauler 04 Radical SR-4 Racecar 97 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 04 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 90 Nissan 300 zx TT showcar with 680 r.w.h.p.!! 02 BMW 330i (needed something practical!) 06 BMW M5 with Schnitzer & Dinan mods. (3) Racebikes built by Richard of Attack Racing

06-14-2007, 05:41 AM	#22 (permalink)
JeffYoung Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 837	Kirk, you are an island of one on this issue. Enjoy your car! Plus, if you are driving at 160-180 on the street, dude...chill. You are going to kill someone.

06-14-2007, 05:59 AM	#25 (permalink)
JeffYoung Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 837	Kirk, the hole you are digging for your credibility is getting deeper and deeper. I will guarantee you that in the next 5 years, NO 97 Esprit will sell for $70k. I don't believe you got $80k for your 99 and if you did it was not representative of what 99.999999 percent of those cars sell for. Kirk, not all of us are trust fund kids. We own cars like the Esprit and take care of them. But sometimes, we need to sell. Your statements above about "if you will ever need to sell, you shouldn't own one" are offensive. So it goes....

06-14-2007, 06:44 AM	#28 (permalink)
StallionX BANNED Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 841	100k on a new esprit (or any new exotic) only to lose 50% of the cars value 4 years later.. this is life.. and unless you buy an NSX or 308 ferrari that you never drive.. you are GOING to be LOSING money.. go into this with that thinking and you will be ok.. I put 15k+ into my esprit, I can give two flying ****s if I never get it back.. You go into these cars (or any toy) thinking of it as an investment and you're bound for dissapointment. Again, a 97-99 esprit should still be worth 40's.. and that is what any decent one is worth.. you need to stop pointing out the crappers and panic sales.. There are VERY few of these cars for sale in the US.. and there is only one reason the value would drop below 40k on a 99..the car has a STORY or the buy just wants to unload it fast.. the car in this advertisement is going WAYYY cheap.. there is obviously a reason for it..

06-14-2007, 07:09 AM	#29 (permalink)
StallionX BANNED Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 841	Jeffyoung, here we go again man.. dude I have to ask you honestly what is your hatred on these cars? It's friggin GLARINGLY obvious There are so few esprits available that the "market" isn't stable whatsoever.. sure the price might drop very low, then again it might skyrocket when no esprits are selling on ebay.. if a dude wants an esprit and only 4 v8's are available he WILL pay what it takes to get the car.. supply and demand.. it's the crap reputation on these cars that are developed by people like Jeffyoung and a few others that DRIVE the value down.. look at the Acura NSX.. you can drive that car 50k miles and own it 4 years and lose like 2k on the whole deal (if that).. it's a wonder and straight up INCREDIBLE fact of those cars, oh and they rarely have issues and last FOREVER (200k miles is NOTHING).. but you know what they don't have? character.. exotic soul.. I would rather buy a ferrari 348 that is going to cause me major stress every 30k miles than an NSX.. That is what the Lotus Esprit is.. it's a car that will cost you in maintenance but that is the price you pay to own the car.. If you are willing to pay it you are willing to own it..period.. that is why I see 50x the number of NSX's out there than Esprits and Ferrari's.. I am going to be frank, I am 30 and if I wasn't making over 150k a year I would not have purchased this toy because I would be crying the blues about maintenance and other issues.. As it stands I am still not thrilled to pay what I pay on it.. but the problem here is many people making 60k a year (which is a good salary) purchase these cars at 40k to own an exotic then they straight up cannot afford to maintain it.. SELL it at 28k just to save their asses and drive the value down.. If next year comes around and my income is less or I need extra money for investments I might sell the car.. we'll see.. then i'll buy the NSX just to own an exotic without the hassles.. but if I feel like spending the cash then by all means I will keep the Esprit. I met lotuson74 last week.. very nice guy with a very expensive stable.. with all the experience he has on these cars and the modding he has done to all of them, I'm sorry but you gotta give the guy credit for at least knowing what he is talking about.. because he has done A LOT of work to his cars (all of them) and I wouldn't question his knowledge at all.. It is how you drive the v8 tranny's BTW.. when I first got mine I broke the mainshaft in 1 month.. then I stopped driving the car like a viper and have driven 10,000 miles with the tranny perfect.. learned my lesson and the car is running dandy..

06-14-2007, 07:22 AM	#30 (permalink)
JeffYoung Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 837	First, Kirk, my bad on the trust fund kid stuff. Inappropriate and wrong. I apologize. Stallion, I loved my Esprit. I would argue that it is guys like you adn Lotus who cause more problems in the Esprit community with poorly thought out mods, and posting about 600 whp with no problems, and claiming he cars are worth far more than they are because they are worth that to you (which is fine by teh way). THAT is what results in folks buying these cars who shouldn't. The most critical thing for a potential Esprit buyer to be is REALISTIC. Realistic about what he is getting and what it will cost to maintain the car. Most of what you guys post is NOT realistic. By the way, to the extent it matters, I make significantly more than you. I'm not some who bought an Esprit and couldnt' afford to keep it up. I did. I just tired of the Esprit experience, wanted a better track car, and bought the Exige, and got more involved in actual racing.

06-14-2007, 07:26 AM	#31 (permalink)
StallionX BANNED Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 841	Jeff, the mods I have on my car are NOT poorly thought out, they are considered safe by most v8 owners.. I never questioned your income nor am I implying you couldn't afford your cars. However if you make significantly more than I do I (btw you don't know how much I make, simply that it was over 150) would assume you are making 500k+ a year.. then why in the name of hell do you even complain about the esprit maintenance? come on man 12k for an engine rebuild must be peanuts for you! But one has to question why you are so insistent on calling these cars such crap.. MUST I dig up the full on hater posts(your words are "REALISTIC" but its clear when you say realistic it's just your PC was of saying you think the car is crap) you have listed here to prove myself again? While Lotus and I like the esprits and feel they are worth more, there will always be people that disagree (that would be you).. I think you repeatedly posting your opinion as fact is obnoxious, and how old are you BTW?

06-14-2007, 07:40 AM	#32 (permalink)
JeffYoung Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 837	You and some "Red Menace" dude said repeatedly I didn't maintain my car. You are in an extreme minority of 2 in your opinion of (a) the strength of the UN1 gearbox and the effect of "driving it right" -- which only helps the synchros, and not the issues with the mainshaft WHICH WAS THE MAIN ARTICLE IN LOTUS LTD'S NEWSLETTER THIS MONTH; (b) the wisdom of your modifications and (c) the value of these cars on the opinion market. Read the Fact File. Read LEW. My "opinions" may be opinions like everyone else's but they are by far the majority opinion as expressed by the majority of the Esprit community, of which I was (and remain) a member since 2002. Esprit values are pretty well recognized to be: S1s and S2s --- $7 to $12k Turbo Esprits -- $10-15k HCIs -- slightly more Esprit Turbos (non SEs) -- $12-16k SEs - $15-25k S4 -- $22-30k. S4s -- $28k to $35k 97-99 V8s -- $35 to $45k 00, 01, 02s -- low $40s to low $50s 03 and 04s are special cases at the moment because of their "final edition" status. They will depreciate and be no more valuable than an 01 or 02 within 5 years or so. That's the facts ma'am. P.S. I'm 38.

06-14-2007, 08:16 AM	#35 (permalink)
JeffYoung Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 837	The Esprit market has been on a steady decline ever since I began following it (say 2001, when I started looking for an SE or S4). I and most others suspect that it has not bottomed out and won't until the "best" 4 pots get down to 15-20k, with the V8s slitghtly more than that -- 20-25k. At some point, it will start to climb again just because the cars are rare. Right now, there just is not a large market for Esprits. That's conjecture though I agree. But it is conjecture backed by about 15 years of experience with depreciation on the car. I will agree with you that one of the things that hurts the value of the car is the large number of poorly maintained piece of crap Esprits that are out there. Not the car's fault, the owner's. I drove 3 cars that were barely hanging on for life before I found a very nice SE with 18,000 for $29k in 03. I put about $8k in it over the almost 4 years I owned it (including tires and brakes though, and a clutch, which are really consumables). Not bad really. When I sold it, it needed an a/c compressor and had some scuffing on the paint on two corners of the bumpers. I got the bumpers painted for $400 by Lotus of Durham, and sold the car for $21k. I wanted a more dedicated track car than the Esprit, so I got an Exige. I do remember Red Menace calling about my car now. He was quite possibly the rudest guy I have ever dealt with on the phone. I told him about the a/c, the bumper scuffs and mentioned that the driver's seat bolster had what I view (after looking at many Esprits) to be normal scuffing. From that I got several long e-mail and voice mail rants from him about how I was treating my car like crap, etc. etc. etc. Avoid the Menace, he's not sane. You guys don't seem like bad guys, just still caught up in "I own an Esprit" euphoria, and arent' realistic about the car. The car IS a cobbled together slightly better than kit car quality (I would say that Nobles are better built) vehicle manufactured by an innovative design firm. Lotus did a GREAT job with what it had....limited resources and a Frankenstein-ish parts bin. Lotus created at first a 4 pot car that was one of the fastest CARs (much less 4 cylinder car) on teh planet, and a V8 on a shoestring budget that once the "in the field" development was complete (Lotus is famous for that, just ask a Jensen Healey owner) turned out to be a pretty good motor (although the ones I have heard sound like a box of rocks just like my 4 pot did). That's the realistic picture of what an Esprit is, and is not. An incredible, but by the late 90s long in the tooth, performance car cobbled together on a shoestring budget by a low volume, underdog manufacture. I guess you see that satement as some sort of insult. Frankly for me, it was part of the charm of the car and one of the reasons I really enjoyed it. Lotus created something special out of not a whole lot. Have to give them props for that. But also have to be realistic about it. I mean, your tranny is from a Renault delivery van! My door latches (on a car that listed for $85k, I have the sticker, in 93) are from an Austina Marina/TR7! My steering wheel (and yours too unless you changed it) is from an early 90s Firebird! My rear brakes were from a Renault Le Car!

06-14-2007, 09:03 AM	#36 (permalink)
StallionX BANNED Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 841	JeffYoung, I'm confused by what you are trying to prove with this "information" in every **ing post.. I have owned plenty of exotic cars, and um Lotus74 has a FLEET of cars as expensive or more expensive than the esprit.. WTF are you talking about.. we like the esprit's bottom line.. Fine it's a kit car piece of ** can we just drop this convo now? Last edited by StallionX : 06-14-2007 at 09:18 AM.

06-14-2007, 09:26 AM	#37 (permalink)
SteelrzLotus Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 47	I have to agree, JEFFYOUNG, ever since I have been on this board I have seen you post over and over again about nothing but problems with these cars. If you hate the Esprit V8's so much why do you own one and why are you here? Go buy a Z06 and relax __________________ 1997 Lotus Esprit V8 - Performance Exhaust, Johan Chip, K&N 1969 Camaro SS - ZZ502 Big Block 1965 Shelby Cobra - 454 Big Block

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06-14-2007, 11:23 AM	#38 (permalink)
IamBatman Exige? SEXIGE! Join Date: May 2006 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 1,609 Images: 1	guys, its a car...try not to make it personal. people have opinions... you can disagree and still be friends

06-14-2007, 01:31 PM	#40 (permalink)
JeffYoung Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 837	Kirk, you seem like a nice dude, but reality (it's a $200k car! I have 26 psi with no problems! the Esprit is a better track car!) is not where you live my friend. I thought my last post was about as accurate a picture of the Esprit as can be fairly drawn. Again, I will tell you that it is essentially the same opinion held by most everyone in the Esprit community. Done guys. Like serpent says, we have a difference of opinion. Check back with me in a couple of years. I will be interested to see where you guys are with your cars. P.S> Kirk, I think there is an S1 Exige that is going to hand you your ass at LRP this weekend.