97 V8 in Sac: good deal? - Page 3 - LotusTalk

StallionX · 06-14-2007, 01:49 PM

you crack me up JEFF, you keep talking on behalf of the entire esprit community, you speak down to everyone who doesn't agree with you AND you claim that your last post is as accurate a picture of the esprit as can be drawn.. <-- you don't see this as outright arrogance?

You want Kirk to check back with you in a couple of years? someone who has owned 3 esprit v8's and 2 elise's? hasn't he already had years and years of ownership and experience?

When Kirk says the car is worth 200k, he is speaking metaphorically.. he is trying to say that he feels its that great.. where you are at the opposite end of the spectrum..

Someone who makes as much money as you do and is as informed as you do surely can understand metaphoric conjecture can't you?

Are you a portfolio manager or money market analyist? you've got the blinding arrogance of one.

JeffYoung · 06-14-2007, 01:56 PM

Stallion, now this is just devolving into name calling. Like I have said over and over, enjoy your cars! I enjoyed my Esprit! Just don't spread a bunch of unrealistic opinion viewpoint about them that is at complete odds with the viewpoints held by people who have owned, worked on and driven the cars for years.

Have your read the Esprit Fact File? Have you read Lotus Esprit World? Are you a member of Lotus Ltd? Do you get Remarque? There is an article in there THIS month by an 01 V8 owner that is an honest look at the problems with the UN1, problems and analysis that are directly contrary to your "if you drive it right it's fine) nonsense.

Anyway, time to go.

lotuson74 · 06-14-2007, 06:27 PM

Just facts here. I have never seen an S1 Exige run but I do own a Sport 190 with the same Rover K motor (fantastic car & motor, better than the S2 in my opinion) and I believe the S1 Exige has much stiffer suspension than my Sport 190.
I look foward to meeting this guy & seeing that car run! I will further let him tell the story of what happens at the track. Remember that I have never been there, not even as a spectator. But that said, I am confident in the Esprit & know it will destroy any S2 Elise or Exige everywhere except the tightest of turns (under 50mph.) and the suspension is stock, same goes for the brakes. Also, I will be running only 14psi. for daytime roadcourse use.
And my Esprit is not worth $200k, it is PRICELESS as it simply is not for sale. Nor will it be anytime soon!

Stallion, you are correct that Jeff seems to speak for the whole Esprit community but notice that NO ONE has stepped foward to really agree with him. But there are a few that agree with us or are at least waiting to see for themselves!
Nobody will stop me from posting the real truth about these great cars on here no matter how much I need to defend falsities - anyone listening? So don't bother believing that it is realistic to think that I will go away

JeffYoung · 06-14-2007, 06:48 PM

Without doubt, a V8 (or a later 4cylinder) Esprit is faster than an Elise or an Exige in a straight line.

Without doubt, in every other facet of the track driving experience, the Exige/Elise is a better car - handling, brankes, steering, shifter, weight transfer/driving dynamics, etc.

On some tracks the V8's power will be enough to be "faster." On others, the Exige/Elise's corner speed, braking and lightweight will be "faster."

But for taking the car to the track on a regular basis, for track reliability and "fun," the lightweight Elise/Exige is in my opinion a much more rewarding car.

StallionX · 06-14-2007, 06:59 PM

I agree with Jeff in this case, but thanks to the toyota drivetrain.. I also feel the elise/exige is more rewarding on a track than a ferrari 360, 430, Lamborghini Gallardo, Viper.. list goes on and on.. it wont break, it weighs nothing.. its a go kart.. you can't beat that.. but I would prefer to have a "BIG GUN" on many tracks.. a car that has the HP to get the job done.. That is the Esprit.. and currently not the elise/exige S

JeffYoung · 06-14-2007, 07:06 PM

True dat. For as much fun as the Elise/Exige is due to weight, handling, etc., that lack of power on the straights is FRUSTRATING.

lotuson74 · 06-14-2007, 07:21 PM

Look at that... We have some agreement!!! Having both cars on the track, the Elise is GREAT!! & FUN!! & as fast as the Esprit on a really tight track (whare the Esprit was not fun) Read Fontana. But even there the Esprit was just as fast. Just not as much fun as an Elise/Exige. But on a larger track the Esprit gets very fun & fast! You probably have never used the AP. Racing brakes, They are unreal good as is the 04 suspension - no comparison to the 97. Also, it is critical to corner balance the Esprit and change the factory set allignment specs.

lotuson74 · 06-14-2007, 07:27 PM

I understand the frustrating power bit so... I am currently installing a 4-2-1 header from QuickSilver on my Elise for the track. I hope I gain 8-10 hp. I am dynoing the car after the install so I'll know. My Elise has Ohlins & larger slicks on Monolite wheels also with the Lotus sport ECU.
It is going to the track too & believe me I will try to beat my Esprit! I just don't think I will

StallionX · 06-14-2007, 07:27 PM

yeah 04 suspension is very sexy indeed! BTW lotuson74 the bodywork on my car is 2500 bucks (and that is WITH my hook up) at least my car will look pristine on the outside (like yours) or at least close to it..

lotuson74 · 06-14-2007, 07:28 PM

what does "BTW MEAN?

lotuson74 · 06-14-2007, 07:35 PM

But wow that sounds like a lot of $$$ Can't wait to see it! Also I think LRP might be a good track for the Esprit. It looks like you can run the whole track in 3rd gear with maybe a short time in 4th. I will let you know... we need to go to a track together sometime this year! I will give you my allignment specs.

lotuson74 · 06-14-2007, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StallionX

yeah 04 suspension is very sexy indeed! BTW lotuson74 the bodywork on my car is 2500 bucks (and that is WITH my hook up) at least my car will look pristine on the outside (like yours) or at least close to it..

There is a suspension for your car that is factory Lotus and even better than the 04's. Better yet, its not that expensive & uses urathane bushings too. add to that your posi. and your car will really handle fantastic depending on the tires used.

StallionX · 06-14-2007, 07:46 PM

BTW = By The Way

the parts are about 1500 the labor 1000.. it's actually very cheap for everything they are doing to it.. I have already had the bodywork done a few times on that damned front bumper.. very annoying/expensive.. which is why now I am completely redoing the front bumper.. new bumper cover etc. I think it's just been painted too much..

mostly my fault every time the car gets any sort of minor scratch I immediately repaint the bastard

lotuson74 · 06-14-2007, 08:14 PM

Use a "roller" next time, its faster and cheaper & approved by most Esprit owners & Lotus USA

lotuson74 · 06-14-2007, 08:19 PM

Got my X5 back today. Damn that thing is fast!! (I mean the turns too!) got to get it to a track, I think (THINK!) it might be able to beat an Elise/Exige if the brakes can handle the load. I think they can?
This would be great "Elise beat by an S.U.V."

StallionX · 06-14-2007, 08:23 PM

dude we have to get up there SOON and see this X5!

lotuson74 · 06-14-2007, 08:56 PM

I can even put everyone in it!!!

JeffYoung · 06-15-2007, 03:38 AM

To my children: it is bed time. Which story do you want daddy to read to you?

06-14-2007, 06:27 PM	#43 (permalink)
lotuson74 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 567	Just facts here. I have never seen an S1 Exige run but I do own a Sport 190 with the same Rover K motor (fantastic car & motor, better than the S2 in my opinion) and I believe the S1 Exige has much stiffer suspension than my Sport 190. I look foward to meeting this guy & seeing that car run! I will further let him tell the story of what happens at the track. Remember that I have never been there, not even as a spectator. But that said, I am confident in the Esprit & know it will destroy any S2 Elise or Exige everywhere except the tightest of turns (under 50mph.) and the suspension is stock, same goes for the brakes. Also, I will be running only 14psi. for daytime roadcourse use. And my Esprit is not worth $200k, it is PRICELESS as it simply is not for sale. Nor will it be anytime soon! Stallion, you are correct that Jeff seems to speak for the whole Esprit community but notice that NO ONE has stepped foward to really agree with him. But there are a few that agree with us or are at least waiting to see for themselves! Nobody will stop me from posting the real truth about these great cars on here no matter how much I need to defend falsities - anyone listening? So don't bother believing that it is realistic to think that I will go away __________________ Kirk Will this do??? Artic silver Elise, Ohlins, Monolites, Q.S. header Arqray Ti. & more 99 Sport 190 Elise 02 Mini Cooper S 03 Dinan BMW S-3 Supercharged X-5 4.6is 06 F-250 Diesel, 11 inch lift, 1000lb ft. hauler 04 Radical SR-4 Racecar 97 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 04 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 90 Nissan 300 zx TT showcar with 680 r.w.h.p.!! 02 BMW 330i (needed something practical!) 06 BMW M5 with Schnitzer & Dinan mods. (3) Racebikes built by Richard of Attack Racing

06-14-2007, 07:21 PM	#47 (permalink)
lotuson74 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 567	Look at that... We have some agreement!!! Having both cars on the track, the Elise is GREAT!! & FUN!! & as fast as the Esprit on a really tight track (whare the Esprit was not fun) Read Fontana. But even there the Esprit was just as fast. Just not as much fun as an Elise/Exige. But on a larger track the Esprit gets very fun & fast! You probably have never used the AP. Racing brakes, They are unreal good as is the 04 suspension - no comparison to the 97. Also, it is critical to corner balance the Esprit and change the factory set allignment specs. __________________ Kirk Will this do??? Artic silver Elise, Ohlins, Monolites, Q.S. header Arqray Ti. & more 99 Sport 190 Elise 02 Mini Cooper S 03 Dinan BMW S-3 Supercharged X-5 4.6is 06 F-250 Diesel, 11 inch lift, 1000lb ft. hauler 04 Radical SR-4 Racecar 97 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 04 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 90 Nissan 300 zx TT showcar with 680 r.w.h.p.!! 02 BMW 330i (needed something practical!) 06 BMW M5 with Schnitzer & Dinan mods. (3) Racebikes built by Richard of Attack Racing

06-14-2007, 07:27 PM	#48 (permalink)
lotuson74 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 567	I understand the frustrating power bit so... I am currently installing a 4-2-1 header from QuickSilver on my Elise for the track. I hope I gain 8-10 hp. I am dynoing the car after the install so I'll know. My Elise has Ohlins & larger slicks on Monolite wheels also with the Lotus sport ECU. It is going to the track too & believe me I will try to beat my Esprit! I just don't think I will __________________ Kirk Will this do??? Artic silver Elise, Ohlins, Monolites, Q.S. header Arqray Ti. & more 99 Sport 190 Elise 02 Mini Cooper S 03 Dinan BMW S-3 Supercharged X-5 4.6is 06 F-250 Diesel, 11 inch lift, 1000lb ft. hauler 04 Radical SR-4 Racecar 97 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 04 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 90 Nissan 300 zx TT showcar with 680 r.w.h.p.!! 02 BMW 330i (needed something practical!) 06 BMW M5 with Schnitzer & Dinan mods. (3) Racebikes built by Richard of Attack Racing

06-14-2007, 07:28 PM	#50 (permalink)
lotuson74 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 567	what does "BTW MEAN? __________________ Kirk Will this do??? Artic silver Elise, Ohlins, Monolites, Q.S. header Arqray Ti. & more 99 Sport 190 Elise 02 Mini Cooper S 03 Dinan BMW S-3 Supercharged X-5 4.6is 06 F-250 Diesel, 11 inch lift, 1000lb ft. hauler 04 Radical SR-4 Racecar 97 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 04 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 90 Nissan 300 zx TT showcar with 680 r.w.h.p.!! 02 BMW 330i (needed something practical!) 06 BMW M5 with Schnitzer & Dinan mods. (3) Racebikes built by Richard of Attack Racing

06-14-2007, 07:35 PM	#51 (permalink)
lotuson74 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 567	But wow that sounds like a lot of $$$ Can't wait to see it! Also I think LRP might be a good track for the Esprit. It looks like you can run the whole track in 3rd gear with maybe a short time in 4th. I will let you know... we need to go to a track together sometime this year! I will give you my allignment specs. __________________ Kirk Will this do??? Artic silver Elise, Ohlins, Monolites, Q.S. header Arqray Ti. & more 99 Sport 190 Elise 02 Mini Cooper S 03 Dinan BMW S-3 Supercharged X-5 4.6is 06 F-250 Diesel, 11 inch lift, 1000lb ft. hauler 04 Radical SR-4 Racecar 97 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 04 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 90 Nissan 300 zx TT showcar with 680 r.w.h.p.!! 02 BMW 330i (needed something practical!) 06 BMW M5 with Schnitzer & Dinan mods. (3) Racebikes built by Richard of Attack Racing

06-14-2007, 01:49 PM	#41 (permalink)
StallionX BANNED Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 841	you crack me up JEFF, you keep talking on behalf of the entire esprit community, you speak down to everyone who doesn't agree with you AND you claim that your last post is as accurate a picture of the esprit as can be drawn.. <-- you don't see this as outright arrogance? You want Kirk to check back with you in a couple of years? someone who has owned 3 esprit v8's and 2 elise's? hasn't he already had years and years of ownership and experience? When Kirk says the car is worth 200k, he is speaking metaphorically.. he is trying to say that he feels its that great.. where you are at the opposite end of the spectrum.. Someone who makes as much money as you do and is as informed as you do surely can understand metaphoric conjecture can't you? Are you a portfolio manager or money market analyist? you've got the blinding arrogance of one.

06-14-2007, 01:56 PM	#42 (permalink)
JeffYoung Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 837	Stallion, now this is just devolving into name calling. Like I have said over and over, enjoy your cars! I enjoyed my Esprit! Just don't spread a bunch of unrealistic opinion viewpoint about them that is at complete odds with the viewpoints held by people who have owned, worked on and driven the cars for years. Have your read the Esprit Fact File? Have you read Lotus Esprit World? Are you a member of Lotus Ltd? Do you get Remarque? There is an article in there THIS month by an 01 V8 owner that is an honest look at the problems with the UN1, problems and analysis that are directly contrary to your "if you drive it right it's fine) nonsense. Anyway, time to go.

06-14-2007, 06:48 PM	#44 (permalink)
JeffYoung Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 837	Without doubt, a V8 (or a later 4cylinder) Esprit is faster than an Elise or an Exige in a straight line. Without doubt, in every other facet of the track driving experience, the Exige/Elise is a better car - handling, brankes, steering, shifter, weight transfer/driving dynamics, etc. On some tracks the V8's power will be enough to be "faster." On others, the Exige/Elise's corner speed, braking and lightweight will be "faster." But for taking the car to the track on a regular basis, for track reliability and "fun," the lightweight Elise/Exige is in my opinion a much more rewarding car.

06-14-2007, 06:59 PM	#45 (permalink)
StallionX BANNED Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 841	I agree with Jeff in this case, but thanks to the toyota drivetrain.. I also feel the elise/exige is more rewarding on a track than a ferrari 360, 430, Lamborghini Gallardo, Viper.. list goes on and on.. it wont break, it weighs nothing.. its a go kart.. you can't beat that.. but I would prefer to have a "BIG GUN" on many tracks.. a car that has the HP to get the job done.. That is the Esprit.. and currently not the elise/exige S

06-14-2007, 07:06 PM	#46 (permalink)
JeffYoung Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 837	True dat. For as much fun as the Elise/Exige is due to weight, handling, etc., that lack of power on the straights is FRUSTRATING.

06-14-2007, 07:27 PM	#49 (permalink)
StallionX BANNED Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 841	yeah 04 suspension is very sexy indeed! BTW lotuson74 the bodywork on my car is 2500 bucks (and that is WITH my hook up) at least my car will look pristine on the outside (like yours) or at least close to it..

06-14-2007, 07:46 PM	#53 (permalink)
StallionX BANNED Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 841	BTW = By The Way the parts are about 1500 the labor 1000.. it's actually very cheap for everything they are doing to it.. I have already had the bodywork done a few times on that damned front bumper.. very annoying/expensive.. which is why now I am completely redoing the front bumper.. new bumper cover etc. I think it's just been painted too much.. mostly my fault every time the car gets any sort of minor scratch I immediately repaint the bastard

06-14-2007, 08:14 PM	#54 (permalink)
lotuson74 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 567	Use a "roller" next time, its faster and cheaper & approved by most Esprit owners & Lotus USA __________________ Kirk Will this do??? Artic silver Elise, Ohlins, Monolites, Q.S. header Arqray Ti. & more 99 Sport 190 Elise 02 Mini Cooper S 03 Dinan BMW S-3 Supercharged X-5 4.6is 06 F-250 Diesel, 11 inch lift, 1000lb ft. hauler 04 Radical SR-4 Racecar 97 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 04 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 90 Nissan 300 zx TT showcar with 680 r.w.h.p.!! 02 BMW 330i (needed something practical!) 06 BMW M5 with Schnitzer & Dinan mods. (3) Racebikes built by Richard of Attack Racing

06-14-2007, 08:19 PM	#55 (permalink)
lotuson74 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 567	Got my X5 back today. Damn that thing is fast!! (I mean the turns too!) got to get it to a track, I think (THINK!) it might be able to beat an Elise/Exige if the brakes can handle the load. I think they can? This would be great "Elise beat by an S.U.V." __________________ Kirk Will this do??? Artic silver Elise, Ohlins, Monolites, Q.S. header Arqray Ti. & more 99 Sport 190 Elise 02 Mini Cooper S 03 Dinan BMW S-3 Supercharged X-5 4.6is 06 F-250 Diesel, 11 inch lift, 1000lb ft. hauler 04 Radical SR-4 Racecar 97 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 04 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 90 Nissan 300 zx TT showcar with 680 r.w.h.p.!! 02 BMW 330i (needed something practical!) 06 BMW M5 with Schnitzer & Dinan mods. (3) Racebikes built by Richard of Attack Racing

06-14-2007, 08:23 PM	#56 (permalink)
StallionX BANNED Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 841	dude we have to get up there SOON and see this X5!

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06-14-2007, 08:56 PM	#57 (permalink)
lotuson74 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 567	I can even put everyone in it!!! __________________ Kirk Will this do??? Artic silver Elise, Ohlins, Monolites, Q.S. header Arqray Ti. & more 99 Sport 190 Elise 02 Mini Cooper S 03 Dinan BMW S-3 Supercharged X-5 4.6is 06 F-250 Diesel, 11 inch lift, 1000lb ft. hauler 04 Radical SR-4 Racecar 97 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 04 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 90 Nissan 300 zx TT showcar with 680 r.w.h.p.!! 02 BMW 330i (needed something practical!) 06 BMW M5 with Schnitzer & Dinan mods. (3) Racebikes built by Richard of Attack Racing

06-15-2007, 03:38 AM	#58 (permalink)
JeffYoung Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 837	To my children: it is bed time. Which story do you want daddy to read to you?