Anyone know the specs on these injectors?? - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community

 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-08-2012, 06:12 AM Thread Starter
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Anyone know the specs on these injectors??

I found some injectors on the puk esprit site for the 4 cyl P.U.K. Esprit Racing , it looks like they are just RC injectors but they convieniently left out the specs/ part number of these. I have a friend that can get RC injectors at wholesale cost rather than spending almost 800 for a set of 6 not including tax and shipping. Does anyone use these and/ or know the specs on these so I might be able to get them cheaper? Thanks
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-08-2012, 09:07 AM
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The stock injectors for the 89 through S4s are:

The primaries are 370cc/min low impedance peak and hold.
The secondaries are 190cc/min high impedance saturated types.

I went with BOSCH injectors a long time ago. The primaries were easy to find, but the closest I could get for the secondaries were 200cc/min.

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Last edited by Vulcan Grey; 12-08-2012 at 10:12 AM.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-08-2012, 06:09 PM
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I'm curious.... other than replacing a failed unit, what would one gain by replacing them or changing to Bosch?
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-08-2012, 06:20 PM
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Travis,

Did you find a difference in idle, drivability, etc by switching to the Bosch injectors?
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-09-2012, 03:13 AM
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I had 2 fail, its pretty common with the original Rochesters.

The Bosch come in a variety of flow rates if you plan to upgrade the turbo or whatever.

I bought them so long ago that I don't remember if they felt better. I was the first, that I know of, to switch to Bosch injectors.

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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-09-2012, 09:33 PM
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If you want an even better deal on injectors, 1G Mitsubishi Eclipse Turbo automatics come with 390cc(5% larger) and mid 90's Honda Civic HF's come with 190cc injectors. Both should be direct drop-in's. Both can be had for well under $50/set and cleaning/balancing at RC is $25/each.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shill68 View Post
If you want an even better deal on injectors, 1G Mitsubishi Eclipse Turbo automatics come with 390cc(5% larger) and mid 90's Honda Civic HF's come with 190cc injectors. Both should be direct drop-in's. Both can be had for well under $50/set and cleaning/balancing at RC is $25/each.
it's not just the flow rate, but the size and length of the injector to fit the Esprit......along wiht the primaries being low impedance. Most low impedance injectors on the market are very high flow rate for big horsepower engines.

I believe the most common cross referrence for the lotus primary injectors are for porsche 944s and mustang SVOs.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadCam View Post
it's not just the flow rate, but the size and length of the injector to fit the Esprit......along wiht the primaries being low impedance. Most low impedance injectors on the market are very high flow rate for big horsepower engines.

I believe the most common cross referrence for the lotus primary injectors are for porsche 944s and mustang SVOs.
Size and length are pretty standard these days, and these are low impedence with very good spray patterns when properly cleaned. If someone has the Lotus injector length, I can compare with the Mitsu ones. The o-rings are identical from the picture listed above.

Last edited by shill68; 12-13-2012 at 01:48 PM.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 06:55 PM Thread Starter
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I shoud clarify, im looking to replace the stock ones with ones that have more flow and better spray patterns. I recently just replace a whole set of the primaries due to a couple failing. When I had my car put on the dyno it showed I was running lean, my guess its because im running a little over a bar of boost and also port matching the intake. I've already checked everything over for any intake leaks, and replaced every vacuum line when I had the engine out last year. I figure that by replacing the injectors with some larger ones shoud help. In the right up for the injectors I put the link to it says that its a must for Esprits running more boost than stock. Maybe down the road I might put in an adjustable fuel psi regulator or fuel pump that has more output also if needed. I certainly don't want to be running lean.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 07:59 PM
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Interesting...

I'm running the BOSCH injectors in stock 370cc primaries and a tiny bit larger 200cc secondaries with a stock fuel pressure reg, and a BOSCH 69218 pump (pulsation damper removed). I have a stock turbo and an S4s MKII chip.

I recently installed an air/fuel meter and I run very rich with full boost (2.23bar in freescan and the dash needle is pegged). I am at 5300ft altitude though.

In various gears I hit 10.0:1, 11.2:1, and 12.2:1 sustained with full boost.

I'm guessing your problem might be to fuel supply from the pump or pressure losses due to the pulsation damper above the pump.

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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 05:13 AM
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travis, I would worry about the 12.2:1 is likely fine for sustained full boost.

all this talk keeps leading me back to switching to a standalone EFI system run my Esprit. Now, I just half to pull the trigger.....and really, really want to rewire the majority of the car..... :-(

I was just at the PRI (performance racing industry trade show), and there are plenty of capable EFI systems to run the Esprit. Looks like all will need a cam sensor if you want to run sequential injection. By today's standards......(even by early 90s standards) the GM system in the 4-pot Esprits is really outdated. From my understanding, the GM ECU doesn't even have the ability to adjust for elevation chages while driving. Must be a bad for those that live in mountainous regions. Apparently, it will compensate once you turn off the engine and restart, but doesn't adapt while cruising. Would be interesting to see the difference in A:F while driving from Denver to Vail.
Fortunately, I don't have those issues in Florida, but I'd still like full control over the ECU as I've never been a fan of generic chip tunes.

Last edited by QuadCam; 12-12-2012 at 05:26 AM.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 10:29 AM
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From my understanding, the GM ECU doesn't even have the ability to adjust for elevation chages while driving.
MAP is MAP regardless of altitude.
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 01:22 PM
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Map is measuring the pressure, not the air density. The amount of oxygen is not the same. The computer can make adjustments, but it does so starting from a base pressure when first keyed. If during driving, the atmosphere conditions radically change, the stock ecu doesn't correctly compensate. I've seen third on other ecus, too. The old UTEC had the same problem.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 02:31 PM
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Yes, MAP is the pressure but the air density will be the same if the temperature is the same (look up Avogadro's law if you need this proving).

BTW, the barometric pressure value is constantly being updated in the Esprit Delco ecu (every 1/5 sec).

Last edited by sailorbob; 12-12-2012 at 02:57 PM. Reason: Corrected BP sampling time
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-13-2012, 01:56 PM
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The ECU is going to make changes to the A/F ratio based on 02 feedback, so altitude doesn't matter that much. Closed loop is generally only observed during cruising conditions, WOT will go to predetermined MAP's in the ECU and that's the part that these chips modify. If you don't compensate for larger injectors in your ECU, the car will run rich at WOT, but if up the boost to compensate, you'll probably be fine. Using the wideband as Travis is works great for this. 12.2:1 is a tad lean for pump gas though, maybe not at 5300ft though.
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