Esprit ENGINE TRANSPLANTS?

[MRDANGERUS]

Bob,
Thank you for bringing this exceptional engine to our attention!
400+ HP and matching bell housing availability makes it a perfect candidate.
Do you have the engine already?


The Development of the Quad Cam Ford
This is a short story on the development of an engine by the Ford Motor Company. This engine was the subject of many books, articles, and technical reports. I have seen this engine referred to as: the Dearborn Ford, the Ford DOHC, The Quad Cam Ford, the Cammer Ford, the fourteen gear Ford, and the Foyt Ford. The meat of this story has been plagiarized from several sources, but primarily from the Design and Development of the Indy Car by Rodger Huntington, The Racing Fords by Hans Tanner, and the S.A.E. report on the Ford DOHC Competition Engine by A.J Scussel along with the update second addition by Ak Miller.
Development of the Quad Cam Ford engine

[LantanaTX]

Originally Posted by MRDANGERUS

Bob,
Thank you for bringing this exceptional engine to our attention!
400+ HP and matching bell housing availability makes it a perfect candidate.
Do you have the engine already?

Right now I am getting familiar with the car and learning this car is put together and fixing a few things. In mid spring I will be taking the car apart to restore. I don't have the engine yet. I would like to put that off a long as possible becuase the prices for the engines keeps coming down as more cars are produced and wrecked. Currently the engine comes in the F150 and Mustang. The F150 is cheaper but other than that, I see no reason to use it, because it has about the same torque and about 40 less HP.

[mallthus]

Although, again, I retain a strong preference for staying original (at least in terms of block), I think a modern turbo 4 pot would be a good alternative to the original 900 series engines.

My thought process is that something like an Ecotec LNF (260 HP/260 lb-ft from the factory, easily modded to 300HP plus) would be more easily serviceable than the Lotus mill, more reliable as a day-in, day-out motor, more powerful than even a 910 and, for the win, far more in keeping with CC's desire to "add lightness" than any of the aforementioned V6, V8 and V10 options.

[lotusespritse]

If you're going to go 4 cyl, might be worth looking at the 2.0 liter Kia turbo motors -- 274hp stock. I have one in an Optima and it pulls like a train. So many of them out there they must be easy and cheap to buy from a wreck and to maintain.

[MRDANGERUS]

It may not want fit in the "straight-up" position. That's why 910 is tilted on its side.

[lotusespritse]

The SE+ has a lot of stuff on top of the engine, so I bet the height is comparable.

[LantanaTX]

Some of the things I have read suggest that the four cylinder engine is what keeps the values down on the Esprit. The Esprit was an exotic that compared farvorably to the V8 Ferrari's, but most people have a hard time associating a four cylinder engine with an exotic car. I think people would have a really hard time associating a KIA 4 cylinder with an exotic car. If I was going to stay four cylinder and wanted a good low maintanance enging, I would use the Toyota engine in the Elise or Exige. At least with these you can get Lotus valve covers and the sky is the limit with tuning. I realize these engines are east west instead of norht south, but just about any engine can be turned to north south. The Ford Coyote engine I intend to use can be disguised to look very similar to the Lotus V8.

[Vulcan Grey]

I've been watching for the last 14 years... What keeps driving the prices on the Esprit down are the people who buy them thinking they are cheap, and then realizing they really can't afford to properly maintain one, so then they have to dump the car even cheaper to get rid of it...

[lotusespritse]

I wouldn't worry about values when you do a transplant. Expect to lose your shirt no matter what you put in there. Originality will always sell better with these cars.

The KIA engine is supposedly a joint venture with Mitsubishi and Chrysler if you're worried about image.

Kia's 2.0L GDI Turbo Engine Specs | eHow.com

The bottom line is that if you are willing to go to a different 4 than the original engine, this engine has got to be one of the cheapest per HP, should be some good options for tuning, and they are sold with a 10 year/100mile warranty, so they can't be all that bad.

[LantanaTX]

Originally Posted by lotusespritse

I wouldn't worry about values when you do a transplant. Expect to lose your shirt no matter what you put in there. Originality will always sell better with these cars.

The KIA engine is supposedly a joint venture with Mitsubishi and Chrysler if you're worried about image.

Kia's 2.0L GDI Turbo Engine Specs | eHow.com

The bottom line is that if you are willing to go to a different 4 than the original engine, this engine has got to be one of the cheapest per HP, should be some good options for tuning, and they are sold with a 10 year/100mile warranty, so they can't be all that bad.

I think you are right that the KIA engine would be a great choice. I don't agree that you have to lose your shirt with a non original engine.though. I just sold a V8 Crossfire for enough to buy a Mercedes CLK and an Esprit. In the case of the Crossfire, I used an AMG 5.5 and was able to outperform the Crossfire SRT-6. If you can do a swap and end up with a better car than the original there are people willing to pay for that. With the Esprit if you can't out perform the V8 Esprit, there will never be anyone willing to pay more than the going rate of a V8 Esprit. When you make major upgrades to a classic car, it becomes a Restomod. A well done Restomod can be worth quite a bit. Just watch Barrett Jackson if you don't believe it. I am doing my car to a very high standard and doing all the work while watching the costs very carefully. If I do this right I will not lose money. I have been doing this since the '70's and always made a profit. An example of my approach is the Bilstein coilovers I am building for a little over $400 and I even got Bilstein to help me with the project!

[lotusespritse]

All that is awesome, but you can't count your time as $0/hour when you start throwing around words like profit. It's a hobby, sure, but time is always money.

Just a data point: A really nicely done G Esprit with a desireable Yamaha SHO motor sold recently for less than a nice unmodified G Esprit. That guy definitely lost his shirt from a profit perspective, even if he had lots of fun doing it.

[dalefield]

I think there are some pretty cool ideas floating around, and the Lotus isn't a valuable car so it's not like an engine swap is destorying a precious treasure. Furthermore, for everty 20 folks who think about doing it, I'd bet only 1 has the skills and perserverence to get it done, so I don't mind so long as it's done OK. Hilly's Mutant v8 thread on TLF is a great read and education.

Still, the one motivation sometimes listed for doing the swap that I just don't get is saying that the stock engine can be replaced with one more reliable. I've had mine over a decade, and it's been one of the most reliable cars I've ever owned. Lots of things on the car are a PITA, but the engine is reliable unless it's abused or neglected. Unless it's done with great skill, I suspect most transplants will be less reliable, and that includes the 4 pot Japanese engines.

Like I said, I'm not hating on the transplant idea, but I am sticking up for the Lotus engine. Changing for more power, smoothness, V8 torque, just-for-the-hell-of-it-just-to-see-if-I-can-do-it are all great reasons. The Lotus 4 cylinder reliability, however, isn't a weak point in my opinion.

[LantanaTX]

Originally Posted by lotusespritse

All that is awesome, but you can't count your time as $0/hour when you start throwing around words like profit. It's a hobby, sure, but time is always money.

Just a data point: A really nicely done G Esprit with a desireable Yamaha SHO motor sold recently for less than a nice unmodified G Esprit. That guy definitely lost his shirt from a profit perspective, even if he had lots of fun doing it.

You are right. I love working on cars too much to count my time. There is really nothing I enjoy more. However I do watch every penny going in carefully. The Crossfire swap took a weekend to do, but a lot of time researching and figuring out how to hack the Mercedes computer. After selling the old engine, my cost for the swap was about $2K. Car sold for 10K more than a stock similar car. Also had about another $2K in suspension and braking upgrades. Seemed like a profit to me. the money was better put into the car than a savings account. The key there was I had an idea which proved to be desirable to other buyers. The SHO engine is a great engine but a turbo Lotus engine is probably better. I really didn't understand that swap. I personally wouldn't do a swap unless you can improve on the V8 Esprit. let's face it, most new buyers would rather have one of those if they can afford it.

If you are going to make a radical change to a car, you probably should count on losing money unless you are doing something very unique that will atract buyers and offers.

Originally Posted by dalefield

I think there are some pretty cool ideas floating around, and the Lotus isn't a valuable car so it's not like an engine swap is destorying a precious treasure. Furthermore, for everty 20 folks who think about doing it, I'd bet only 1 has the skills and perserverence to get it done, so I don't mind so long as it's done OK. Hilly's Mutant v8 thread on TLF is a great read and education.

Still, the one motivation sometimes listed for doing the swap that I just don't get is saying that the stock engine can be replaced with one more reliable. I've had mine over a decade, and it's been one of the most reliable cars I've ever owned. Lots of things on the car are a PITA, but the engine is reliable unless it's abused or neglected. Unless it's done with great skill, I suspect most transplants will be less reliable, and that includes the 4 pot Japanese engines.

Like I said, I'm not hating on the transplant idea, but I am sticking up for the Lotus engine. Changing for more power, smoothness, V8 torque, just-for-the-hell-of-it-just-to-see-if-I-can-do-it are all great reasons. The Lotus 4 cylinder reliability, however, isn't a weak point in my opinion.

I have to agree with your on reliabilty. Using the term "reliability" should be replaced with maintenance and rebuild cost. Shoot my engine has 130,000 miles on it and it runs fantastic! The one thing I do not appreciate on the Lotus engine is the use of cam belts instead of timing chains as well as the lack of an access panel behind the seats.

[MidLifeZ]

Look at how many times Offenhauser won the Indy 500 with four cylinders.. THIRTY SEVEN victories..

Originally Posted by LantanaTX

Some of the things I have read suggest that the four cylinder engine is what keeps the values down on the Esprit. The Esprit was an exotic that compared farvorably to the V8 Ferrari's, but most people have a hard time associating a four cylinder engine with an exotic car. I think people would have a really hard time associating a KIA 4 cylinder with an exotic car. If I was going to stay four cylinder and wanted a good low maintanance enging, I would use the Toyota engine in the Elise or Exige. At least with these you can get Lotus valve covers and the sky is the limit with tuning. I realize these engines are east west instead of norht south, but just about any engine can be turned to north south. The Ford Coyote engine I intend to use can be disguised to look very similar to the Lotus V8.

[LantanaTX]

Originally Posted by MidLifeZ

Look at how many times Offenhauser won the Indy 500 with four cylinders.. THIRTY SEVEN victories..

The Offy had a great run for sure, but it was a Lotus with a Ford Coyote engine that put an end to that.

The latter Cosworth Ford did pretty well too!


1964
•Ford introduces double-overhead cam V8 Indy car engine. Jim Clark wins Indianapolis 500 pole in a Lotus-Ford.

1965
•Jim Clark scores Ford’s first victory in the Indianapolis 500, driving a Lotus-Ford. Cars powered by the DOHC Ford V8 finish 1 through 4.
•Mario Andretti becomes first Ford-powered driver to win the USAC (Indy car) national championship.

1967
•Ford Cosworth DFV V8 engine makes Formula One debut, driven to victory by Jim Clark in a Lotus-Ford in the Dutch Grand Prix. Between 1967 and 1983 the engine would win 154 races, power 12 world champion drivers and 10 world champion constructors.
________________________________________

Now that Ford has introduced the new Coyote V8, it seems natural to me that the engine should find its way into a Lotus.

One of the cars I built was a replica of a 1965 AC 289 slab side Cobra. It took about 300 hours to build and $28K to build. The car sold for $52K I thought I made a $24K profit. Or I guess it was break even at $80 per hour for my time? Here is a pic of my Cobra

[MRDANGERUS]

Looks like crate engines sell for 6-7K. Aluminator on ebay cost 8.5K
Ford Racing 5 0L DOHC Aluminator Crate Engine M 6007 A50SC | eBay

The standard 412 hp 5.0 L Coyote engine is available from several FRPP dealers for $5,700 to $5995 including free shipping in the US. This is a real bargain for the technology in this engine.

There are also long blocks with Forged pistons, forged Manley H beam rods, forged steel crank, aluminum block etc. available as 4.6 L Aluminator engines for approx $6,500 to $6,700 with free shipping. The 5.0 L Coyote all forged Aluminator long block is a about $7,200.

[MRDANGERUS]

How about 2008 Audi Abt AS4 twin turbo engine?
Type: Turbocharged V6
Displacement cu in (cc): 181 (2967)
Power bhp (kW) at RPM: 300(221) / n.a.
Torque lb-ft (Nm) at RPM: 443(600) / n.a.

Compact+enough power to sling a mill stone.
See this:
Pulse GT1

[UpSideDownDesi]

I am looking into my new project and have found a 86 Lotus Turbo Esprit which will be a candidate for a motor overhaul soon or engine replacement. I have also managed to find a Lotus 918 V8 TT motor complete with transmission, wiring harness, and ECU.

My questions is, do y'all think this will work? Has any done 918 V8 TT swap into older Lotus Esprit? Please let me know what this will require to work before I dive into this project. Thanks

[DeanG]

My brother in-law did a body swap between a S4 & a V8. Massive amount fiberglass work.