Lotus Esprit successor may feature Lexus V10

[Vulcan Grey]

Originally Posted by mikeyd

I'm gonna get flamed for this but here goes...
Why doesn't Lotus just sign up for gen. V LS 500hp+ motors from GM for the Esprit (or whoever buys the engines division). It's reliable, 100lbs lighter than the Lexus LF-A, MUCH cheaper, could be geared to return relatively high MPG in a lighter more aerodynamic vehicle.
Just because it's made in Detroit doesn't mean it's crap...

The Corvette isn't my cup of tea but the LS is a bloody good engine.

My $0.02

Have you seen the thread about the LS engine block breaking at the starter?
Corvette C5 starter mount failure - welding aluminum engine block?

With GM going bankrupt, and the suppliers probably following... I'm not sure an LS is a "long term" solution

[ggelise]

Originally Posted by mikeyd

I'm gonna get flamed for this but here goes...
Why doesn't Lotus just sign up for gen. V LS 500hp+ motors from GM for the Esprit (or whoever buys the engines division). It's reliable, 100lbs lighter than the Lexus LF-A, MUCH cheaper, could be geared to return relatively high MPG in a lighter more aerodynamic vehicle. More importantly an LS Esprit would inherit a massive fan base throughout the US and have access to huge aftermarket support/tuning.
Now I know I'm gonna get flamed for this but look past gut reactions and prejudices, how much better is a massively technical V10 with prohibitive servicing costs than a proven and much loved lump like the the LS?
Just because it's made in Detroit doesn't mean it's crap...
I would much prefer to see an Esprit with LS power and I reckon most of Esprit fans of old would too.
The Corvette isn't my cup of tea but the LS is a bloody good engine.
Lotus has as much a connection with GM as it does with Toyota (more so maybe).
My $0.02

I think it is an awesome idea. Are they still pushrod? Perhaps Lotus could help with that. What motor did lotus do for the vette? I think it was the first zr1?

[IamBatman]

Originally Posted by ggelise

I think it is an awesome idea. Are they still push-rod? Perhaps Lotus could help with that. What motor did lotus do for the vett? I think it was the first zr1?

yes its still pushrod, thats why its such an awesome motor: small overall size, less parts, one cam, low center of gravity, light weight, good torque and surprisingly efficient for the displacement and power it makes.... why do you need DOHC when it makes just as much power, cheaper, and more efficient?

notice I'm not commenting on the build quality... that is a totally different issue and unrelated to the simple and elegant engineering that went into the LS-series engines.

--this is coming from a guy who still drive a Ford...and hates almost all GM cars...

[...m...]

Originally Posted by Vulcan Grey

With GM going bankrupt, and the suppliers probably following... I'm not sure an LS is a "long term" solution

...no matter what happens to general motors, the corvette isn't going anywhere - it's a proven marque (yes, i said marque) with a successful business model and an enthusiastic and prodigious customer base...

[mikeyd]

Well how about Lotus doing a US only version of the new Esprit with an LS? seriously I reckon they'd be so swamped with the demand for it they'd have to open a US manufacturing plant... oops what have I gone and said?

[DeanG]

Maybe Lotus should just buy GM. Cheap enough.

[Monsi]

if there is any justice left in this world there won't be a corvette engine in the esprit there are very good reasons MOST car companies don't use pushrods anymore... (and most car companies that still use them went bankrupt WOOOOOO)

I want a "buzzbomb" v10 in my esprit...
just saying

[Redback]

Originally Posted by mikeyd

I'm gonna get flamed for this but here goes...
Why doesn't Lotus just sign up for gen. V LS 500hp+ motors from GM for the Esprit (or whoever buys the engines division). It's reliable, 100lbs lighter than the Lexus LF-A, MUCH cheaper, could be geared to return relatively high MPG in a lighter more aerodynamic vehicle. More importantly an LS Esprit would inherit a massive fan base throughout the US and have access to huge aftermarket support/tuning.
Now I know I'm gonna get flamed for this but look past gut reactions and prejudices, how much better is a massively technical V10 with prohibitive servicing costs than a proven and much loved lump like the the LS?
Just because it's made in Detroit doesn't mean it's crap...
I would much prefer to see an Esprit with LS power and I reckon most of Esprit fans of old would too.
The Corvette isn't my cup of tea but the LS is a bloody good engine.
Lotus has as much a connection with GM as it does with Toyota (more so maybe).
My $0.02

Where did you find the weight of the Lexus V10?

As I understand it, this engine hasn't been released in a road vehicle yet, its final specification is still to be determined and Toyota haven't yet released final dimensional specifications either.

If you have a link to the V10 specs, please post it, - I've been interested in this engine for a while.

[IamBatman]

Originally Posted by Monsi

if there is any justice left in this world there won't be a corvette engine in the esprit there are very good reasons MOST car companies don't use pushrods anymore... (and most car companies that still use them went bankrupt WOOOOOO)

and what good reason would that be? (other then engine complexity snobbery)
the only advantages of a DOHC over a modern pushrod engine is high RPM smoothness... and the LS-series V8s are so good at low RPMs that you hardly ever need to rev it up high.

[Redback]

Originally Posted by IamBatman

and what good reason would that be? (other then engine complexity snobbery)
the only advantages of a DOHC over a modern pushrod engine is high RPM smoothness... and the LS-series V8s are so good at low RPMs that you hardly ever need to rev it up high.

It's not just snobbery.

Don't get me wrong, - I admire the LS series V8s. They're light, compact, torquey and produce good power. They're also simple, easy to work on, and have any number of aftermarket components available for enhancing their performance still further.

All else being equal though, a pushrod engine has to have compromises in its head/port design (because of the pushrods) which will affect performance, and it will also have greater reciprocating mass which affects maximum revs and therefore power output.

Some of these deficiencies can be addressed with better engineered components, but these can be quite expensive, thereby negating the initial cost advantage of the pushrod engine.

Finally, because of the compromises in head design and valve-train actuation inherent in a pushrod engine, meeting increasingly stringent emissions targets is likely to be more difficult than with a DOHC motor.

I think it's horses-for-courses. If you wants lots of torque low in the rev-range for towing or motivating a heavy vehicle, - then the LS series is a great motor.

If you want better volumetric efficiency, smoother operation, higher rev-limits and more power, then a quad-cam V8 or V10 of similar capacity is probably a better solution.

For the new Esprit, I think the Lexus V10 is likely to be more in-keeping with the character of the vehicle.

[Cthulhu]

IIRC, from when I was thinking of buying a used C5 Z06, Corvette has some pretty fancy sodium cooled valves. I think the Z06 had a redline of 7500 RPM, too. I love Corvettes, but ultimately, the engine displacement was just too high for me to justify. I like hanging in the powerband, and on an engine with monster displacement, you can watch your fuel gauge drop pretty quickly.

I have a lot of respect for Corvette's and the LS engines, but if I were to pick an engine for a supercar, I would look at (in this order):

1) power (~500+ HP NA, with good RMS torque and a near linear torque band)
2) engine life (no cosworth F1 engines )
3) HP/engine weight (power to weight! power to weight!)
4) HP/unit displacement (efficiency)
5) cost

I don't know enough about the Lexus V10 to compare it against the LS engines, though... so it's just a list.

Formula engines still make me drool, with their pnumatic valves and 19,000 rpm redlines, despite their short lives and pricey rebuilds.