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What would you guys do in this situation. At one time my original pilot bearing got worn into the crankshaft, then the PO bored the crank and installed a bushing or bearing that failed, now I have the crank ready for a new/better sealed roller bearing, but the original spigot bearing is in the crank, should I
A: leave it in and put the old input shaft sleeve in it since its the same size ID as the sealed bearing im installing which will then keep the sleeve in place, it will be like a bearing, but a bearing for nothing since the input shaft I dont believe will even penetrate further than the new sealed roller bearing.
B: just remove that old spigot bearing and then the new roller bearing center will be hollow behind it. I think this way if something fails (circlip) would put any and all forward stress on just the new bearing though.
C: remove the old spigot bearing altogether, and fill it with a metric shaft of the same size that is cut flush to the same depth of the old bearing, then install the new bearing.
I put up a picture of my new bearing, its the one on the left (obviously), the bearing company told me it is a spigot bearing from another application, the sleeve from the original spigot bearing is on the right, then the other picture is my crank opening with the old bearing still in it.
Get a shaft the same diameter as the ID of the bearing (still in the cranck)...no more than 0.005" smaller. Fill the hole full of motor oil and hammer it out. Even though you are driving the shaft down into the cranck, the hydraulic pressure will drive the old bearing out.
Don't use two bearings...I'd stick with the needle bearing...that is all I've ever used.
I agree, use whatever means to drive out the old pilot bearing (hydraulic) but replace the pilot bearing with a single sealed bearing, even if it is necessary to machine the crank to accept a new sealed bearing.
Its all ready for the new sealed bearing, im just wondering what to do about the original bearing deeper in the crankshaft as it really serves no purpose other than taking up the space behind the new bearing, thats my question, leave it there to take up the space or pull it. I guess really it doesnt matter as long as I put the sleeve back in it so it can never lose its needles.
It amazes me that it got pushed so deep in the crankshaft, the PO told me the input shaft stripped once I guess when the circlip fails, thats the result but crankshafts are friggin hard material.
I'm not sure if you're planning any more trips to your machinist but just get the old bearing taken out. You'll feel better, a little less mass to spin, just seems like the right thing to do. A good machinist will be able to pop it out quickly.
This is what I was told by an old engine builder when I asked what is better needle or just old bushing-style pilot bearing. The needle bearing causes less friction and noise. However, it is a less reliable part, as it has many components to come apart. When it does come apart you have tiny needle bearins made out of hardened steel all over the inside of the motor and tranny. If they get jammed somewhere, thye will cause a lot of damage. Since, then I have been using bronze bushings...
The info could be old. Maybe less pertinent for street use...
There are pullers to remove a bearing like that. They're frequently used by transmission guys. I've been successful in the past using a puller plus some cold spray from an electronics store. In my case I took an iron from home and set it on the crank overnight. cold spray on the bearing and an incredibly stuck unit came out smooth as butter. It would probably work on your engine too.
I think the issue with needle bearings is that they put up with the load a lot better but add a small bit more friction. If it did fail the inner race of the bearing will probably take the brunt of it and there should be no real "access" to the innards of either your engine or transmission. It could still make a mess but I wouldn't stress out about this too much.
Bushings can take more abuse but there is no good way to lubricate it once installed. Needle bearings can last longer but are not as good taking shock loads (in this application there shouldn't be any). When installing the transmission it is easier to damage the needle bearing if you are not aligned well. To remove you pack the old one with a LOT of grease. Then you find some stock that tightly fits into the bearing and whack it with a hammer. The grease will force the old bearing out. The needle bearing is nice but not required, the problem is the circlip, that is the part that starts the chain of failure. The needle bearing is no better than the bushing at handling thrust.
David Teitelbaum
Remove the remnants of the old needle bearing. It's outer race is just a thin-wall stamped steel can, and it has no inner race. There's nothing very structural about it. It's already pushed down into the spigot bore beyond any good working surface you wish to preserve. You don't have to be delicate, just rip and tear. A chisel and needle nose.
The OEM needle bearing is marginally adequate. If all is well, then the loads on it are minimal. However things don't have to go wrong by much and the little needle bearing just throws up it's hands and quits.
The main problem in the Esprit-Citroen results when the circlip fails to hold the input shaft in place. The OEM needle bearing has zero ability to support any axial thrust loads, and will do almost nothing to prevent the input shaft from moving forward against the crankshaft.
On the other hand, a deep groove ball bearing can support considerable axial loading. If the input shaft gets past the circlip, the ball bearing can support the spring's thrust load without further damage. It's for that reason that a deep groove ball bearing is the better choice.
I don't know if the ball bearing you intend to use is a deep groove/ filling slot type with an adequate axial load rating... ask your supplier.
Regards,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North (LOON)
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