There is nothing like... - Page 4 - LotusTalk

StallionX · 06-22-2007, 09:42 AM

the consensus has seemed to be that 12psi is still in the safe range meaning "no more wear than usual on the engine"...

I will do some more research on this..

JeffYoung · 06-22-2007, 10:39 AM

I guess we weren't clear. Any additional boost is potentially problematic. You'll hear a lot of opinions on how much additional boost causes how much additional risk. You then pays your money and you takes your chances.

For me, I stayed with a stock chip (albeit an upgrade one) because the additional performance wasn't worth it for me on a car that was essentially my daily driver, given the cost of a boost related major problem.

I'm sure you'll find V8 specialists who will tell you 12 lbs is fine. I'm sure there are others who disagree. You really have to make the call yourself based on the amount of risk you believe exists, and the costs of your "call" being wrong.

The call we make varies from person to person and that's where I have not been fair to you and Kirk. For you guys, the added performance may be worth the additional risk. For me it was not.

StallionX · 06-22-2007, 02:34 PM

Jeff, did you own a v8? if so which year?

JeffYoung · 06-22-2007, 03:02 PM

No, I had a 93.5 SE with an S4s chip. The 4 pots could handle more boost than the V8s since they had the charge cooler. Stock they ran about 1 bar (14 lbs), although the ECU allowed short spikes to slightly more 1.2 bar I think.

As the car would heat soak on track though, and the chargecooler became less effective, the ECU would allow less boost.

In any event, the 4 pot had pretty strong internals on the bottom end (the crank is HUGE), plus the intercooler. My buddy (with a 91 SE) added a larger turbo and burned his own chips. I think he ran 16-18 lbs, but I'll have to ask him.

That was one of the fastest cars I have ridden in. Made 340 whp in a 2800 lb car. So, probably close to 400 hp at the crank. Ithink he got the car in the low 12s at the strip on crap tires.

Edit -- CARS FUN WITH HAVE YOUR!

fishguy · 06-22-2007, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffYoung

The call we make varies from person to person and that's where I have not been fair to you and Kirk. For you guys, the added performance may be worth the additional risk. For me it was not.

what happened to "have fun with your cars"?

JeffYoung · 06-22-2007, 03:14 PM

Fixed it, thanks Fish!

StallionX · 06-22-2007, 05:27 PM

so you have never owned a v8.. I see.. interesting..

JeffYoung · 06-22-2007, 07:01 PM

Nope. Could I? Sure. I have been around and ridden in V8s? Yes. I have I done a lot of reading on them? Yes.

What's your point? Are we back to: have fun with youze cahs!?

StallionX · 06-23-2007, 08:30 PM

I hear ya Jeffrey!..

Just came as a bit of a shock because.. well because you have been spewing so much "knowledge" about the V8 Esprit on here I just assumed that you owned one and have lived with one...

all is well though I am right there with ya pal! I'll just enjoy my car then..

lotuson74 · 06-23-2007, 11:34 PM

I tried to enjoy my Esprit V8 tonight

I raced my friends Noble M400. Not much enjoyment - BOOM!

scared you diden't I?
No boom booms, but no win either. It was a dead heat, I would pull until I shifted - then he would pull until he shifted - then I'd pull until I shifted, etc. until about 130mph. when the Esprit would finally hold a slight lead (and this was at about 14/15psi. Boost on race fuel!!)
So... you know what I did, right? Turned it up a bit more.
Now, I am running about 20psi. and my car feels more like its old self again! We will run them again soon, this time I will decidedly win!

I really think my car was faster with the original "High Torque" ECU.

Be carefull with those Noble M400's, They are no joke!! Unless your Esprit is done like mine - you will get beat. But... I won't

Nothing, NOTHING. Beats my Esprit

JeffYoung · 06-23-2007, 11:39 PM

Naw, I owned by 4 cylinder Esprit, read a bunch about V8s, and decided I wanted something better......

Quote:

Originally Posted by StallionX

I hear ya Jeffrey!..

Just came as a bit of a shock because.. well because you have been spewing so much "knowledge" about the V8 Esprit on here I just assumed that you owned one and have lived with one...

all is well though I am right there with ya pal! I'll just enjoy my car then..

lotuson74 · 06-23-2007, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffYoung

Naw, I owned by 4 cylinder Esprit, read a bunch about V8s, and decided I wanted something better......

Ah... Um...

So you bought an Exige? With a Toy motor

Son, You can't handle the V8!

But, we V8 owners are glad that you know your limits

Enjoy yerrr Sunday drive - Pops

lotuson74 · 06-23-2007, 11:57 PM

Stallion... I wondered whappened to you!! You were comitted too, just like Jeff?? Dude... you could end up on the same forum as him

Don't worry, I will save you...
Just build 26psi. back pressure, when Jeff is sleeping... straddle him & LET LOOSE!!! He will be a gonner

JeffYoung · 06-24-2007, 12:29 AM

Toyo motor that ain't afraid of the track....you got so scared of that S1 Exige you didn't show at LRP!

lotuson74 · 06-24-2007, 06:27 AM

Not going to load a 48 foot trailer & drive it 6+ hours for such little track time, that's the truth. I looked foward to seeing that Exige. Remember, I have a Sport 190 with the same Rover motor

I will be going to Pocano real soon (I must check the schedule)
Let me know if there is any other track days anywhere that do not start at 1:00pm. like L.R.P. did.
Scared??
Keep talking... You shall see

JeffYoung · 06-24-2007, 11:04 AM

But a different driver.

Here's what I know.

You talked a big game.

You said you were gonna whup some a.

You told us you could drive.

And then that little S1 Exige scairt you into not showing.

Them's the facts, ma'am....lol......

fishguy · 06-24-2007, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffYoung

But a different driver.

Here's what I know.

You talked a big game.

You said you were gonna whup some a.

You told us you could drive.

And then that little S1 Exige scairt you into not showing.

Them's the facts, ma'am....lol......

Jeff , you forgot, "have fun with your cars"
With very few exceptions in life, those who talk the big game, usually lack the game in the first place, which is why they talk big in the first place.
At the track on raceday , i dont really worry about the talkers, its the nice helpful, quiet guys who kick my ass. the "talkers" usually end up getting towed off by the wrecker.

Also, IMO, high HP and going fast in a straight line is not much about the person behind the wheel. Low HP racers with good lap times are the ones who seem to have the understanding of technique and car control.

"Enjoy your cars", or at least talking about them anyway.

JeffYoung · 06-24-2007, 01:12 PM

Amen bro!

EDit -- Just saw your avatar. You race Formula Ford? SCCA ITS (TR8) and SM (for enduros) here.

The other thing that gets me is the 1% "track day" crowd (nice guys 99% of them) who think they are "racing." Wheel to wheel is a whole 'nother world.

The lap times that guys racing SCCA or NASA turn in 100 to 120 rwhp cars would shock some of the trackies hauling butt down the straights in their 997 or Z06 ......

StallionX · 06-25-2007, 10:24 AM

"The lap times that guys racing SCCA or NASA turn in 100 to 120 rwhp cars would shock some of the trackies hauling butt down the straights in their 997 or Z06 ......"

JeffYoung · 06-25-2007, 11:48 AM

Horse boy! Don't go there! We'll have to stage a test and you'll get spanked by a Spec Miata! And you won't like it!

For example -- check out the thread on VIR. Two guys with Elises/Exiges talking about track times they've turned there in 996s. Most were in the 2:18 range.

Guess what the Spec Miata (about 115 rwhp) track record is at VIR? Just guess..c'mon....please.

06-22-2007, 03:02 PM	#64 (permalink)
JeffYoung Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 837	No, I had a 93.5 SE with an S4s chip. The 4 pots could handle more boost than the V8s since they had the charge cooler. Stock they ran about 1 bar (14 lbs), although the ECU allowed short spikes to slightly more 1.2 bar I think. As the car would heat soak on track though, and the chargecooler became less effective, the ECU would allow less boost. In any event, the 4 pot had pretty strong internals on the bottom end (the crank is HUGE), plus the intercooler. My buddy (with a 91 SE) added a larger turbo and burned his own chips. I think he ran 16-18 lbs, but I'll have to ask him. That was one of the fastest cars I have ridden in. Made 340 whp in a 2800 lb car. So, probably close to 400 hp at the crank. Ithink he got the car in the low 12s at the strip on crap tires. Edit -- CARS FUN WITH HAVE YOUR! Last edited by JeffYoung : 06-22-2007 at 03:13 PM.

06-23-2007, 11:34 PM	#70 (permalink)
lotuson74 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 567	I tried to enjoy my Esprit V8 tonight I raced my friends Noble M400. Not much enjoyment - BOOM! scared you diden't I? No boom booms, but no win either. It was a dead heat, I would pull until I shifted - then he would pull until he shifted - then I'd pull until I shifted, etc. until about 130mph. when the Esprit would finally hold a slight lead (and this was at about 14/15psi. Boost on race fuel!!) So... you know what I did, right? Turned it up a bit more. Now, I am running about 20psi. and my car feels more like its old self again! We will run them again soon, this time I will decidedly win! I really think my car was faster with the original "High Torque" ECU. Be carefull with those Noble M400's, They are no joke!! Unless your Esprit is done like mine - you will get beat. But... I won't Nothing, NOTHING. Beats my Esprit __________________ Kirk Will this do??? Artic silver Elise, Ohlins, Monolites, Q.S. header Arqray Ti. & more 99 Sport 190 Elise 02 Mini Cooper S 03 Dinan BMW S-3 Supercharged X-5 4.6is 06 F-250 Diesel, 11 inch lift, 1000lb ft. hauler 04 Radical SR-4 Racecar 97 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 04 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 90 Nissan 300 zx TT showcar with 680 r.w.h.p.!! 02 BMW 330i (needed something practical!) 06 BMW M5 with Schnitzer & Dinan mods. (3) Racebikes built by Richard of Attack Racing

06-23-2007, 11:57 PM	#73 (permalink)
lotuson74 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 567	Stallion... I wondered whappened to you!! You were comitted too, just like Jeff?? Dude... you could end up on the same forum as him Don't worry, I will save you... Just build 26psi. back pressure, when Jeff is sleeping... straddle him & LET LOOSE!!! He will be a gonner __________________ Kirk Will this do??? Artic silver Elise, Ohlins, Monolites, Q.S. header Arqray Ti. & more 99 Sport 190 Elise 02 Mini Cooper S 03 Dinan BMW S-3 Supercharged X-5 4.6is 06 F-250 Diesel, 11 inch lift, 1000lb ft. hauler 04 Radical SR-4 Racecar 97 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 04 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 90 Nissan 300 zx TT showcar with 680 r.w.h.p.!! 02 BMW 330i (needed something practical!) 06 BMW M5 with Schnitzer & Dinan mods. (3) Racebikes built by Richard of Attack Racing

06-24-2007, 06:27 AM	#75 (permalink)
lotuson74 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 567	Not going to load a 48 foot trailer & drive it 6+ hours for such little track time, that's the truth. I looked foward to seeing that Exige. Remember, I have a Sport 190 with the same Rover motor I will be going to Pocano real soon (I must check the schedule) Let me know if there is any other track days anywhere that do not start at 1:00pm. like L.R.P. did. Scared?? Keep talking... You shall see __________________ Kirk Will this do??? Artic silver Elise, Ohlins, Monolites, Q.S. header Arqray Ti. & more 99 Sport 190 Elise 02 Mini Cooper S 03 Dinan BMW S-3 Supercharged X-5 4.6is 06 F-250 Diesel, 11 inch lift, 1000lb ft. hauler 04 Radical SR-4 Racecar 97 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 04 Lotus Esprit V-8 TT 90 Nissan 300 zx TT showcar with 680 r.w.h.p.!! 02 BMW 330i (needed something practical!) 06 BMW M5 with Schnitzer & Dinan mods. (3) Racebikes built by Richard of Attack Racing

06-24-2007, 01:12 PM	#78 (permalink)
JeffYoung Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 837	Amen bro! EDit -- Just saw your avatar. You race Formula Ford? SCCA ITS (TR8) and SM (for enduros) here. The other thing that gets me is the 1% "track day" crowd (nice guys 99% of them) who think they are "racing." Wheel to wheel is a whole 'nother world. The lap times that guys racing SCCA or NASA turn in 100 to 120 rwhp cars would shock some of the trackies hauling butt down the straights in their 997 or Z06 ...... Last edited by JeffYoung : 06-24-2007 at 01:22 PM.

06-22-2007, 09:42 AM	#61 (permalink)
StallionX BANNED Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 841	the consensus has seemed to be that 12psi is still in the safe range meaning "no more wear than usual on the engine"... I will do some more research on this..

06-22-2007, 10:39 AM	#62 (permalink)
JeffYoung Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 837	I guess we weren't clear. Any additional boost is potentially problematic. You'll hear a lot of opinions on how much additional boost causes how much additional risk. You then pays your money and you takes your chances. For me, I stayed with a stock chip (albeit an upgrade one) because the additional performance wasn't worth it for me on a car that was essentially my daily driver, given the cost of a boost related major problem. I'm sure you'll find V8 specialists who will tell you 12 lbs is fine. I'm sure there are others who disagree. You really have to make the call yourself based on the amount of risk you believe exists, and the costs of your "call" being wrong. The call we make varies from person to person and that's where I have not been fair to you and Kirk. For you guys, the added performance may be worth the additional risk. For me it was not.

06-22-2007, 02:34 PM	#63 (permalink)
StallionX BANNED Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 841	Jeff, did you own a v8? if so which year?

06-22-2007, 03:14 PM	#66 (permalink)
JeffYoung Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 837	Fixed it, thanks Fish!

06-22-2007, 05:27 PM	#67 (permalink)
StallionX BANNED Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 841	so you have never owned a v8.. I see.. interesting..

06-22-2007, 07:01 PM	#68 (permalink)
JeffYoung Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 837	Nope. Could I? Sure. I have been around and ridden in V8s? Yes. I have I done a lot of reading on them? Yes. What's your point? Are we back to: have fun with youze cahs!?

06-23-2007, 08:30 PM	#69 (permalink)
StallionX BANNED Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 841	I hear ya Jeffrey!.. Just came as a bit of a shock because.. well because you have been spewing so much "knowledge" about the V8 Esprit on here I just assumed that you owned one and have lived with one... all is well though I am right there with ya pal! I'll just enjoy my car then..

06-24-2007, 12:29 AM	#74 (permalink)
JeffYoung Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 837	Toyo motor that ain't afraid of the track....you got so scared of that S1 Exige you didn't show at LRP!

06-24-2007, 11:04 AM	#76 (permalink)
JeffYoung Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 837	But a different driver. Here's what I know. You talked a big game. You said you were gonna whup some a. You told us you could drive. And then that little S1 Exige scairt you into not showing. Them's the facts, ma'am....lol......

06-25-2007, 10:24 AM	#79 (permalink)
StallionX BANNED Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 841	"The lap times that guys racing SCCA or NASA turn in 100 to 120 rwhp cars would shock some of the trackies hauling butt down the straights in their 997 or Z06 ......"

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06-25-2007, 11:48 AM	#80 (permalink)
JeffYoung Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 837	Horse boy! Don't go there! We'll have to stage a test and you'll get spanked by a Spec Miata! And you won't like it! For example -- check out the thread on VIR. Two guys with Elises/Exiges talking about track times they've turned there in 996s. Most were in the 2:18 range. Guess what the Spec Miata (about 115 rwhp) track record is at VIR? Just guess..c'mon....please. Last edited by JeffYoung : 06-25-2007 at 12:16 PM.