Video of Esprit V8 Overheat - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community

 10Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 06:04 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 15
Video of Esprit V8 Overheat

Wanted to get an opinion from the forum if overheating an Esprit V8(Year 2000, 57K miles) could cause damage. I appreciate any feedback anyone can provide.

Video of Overheat:

Cause of Overheat (Unsecured header tank)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1_...Zd096OVZB/view

Video of Oil After Overheat

Last edited by pb8226; 04-21-2017 at 10:02 AM.
pb8226 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 06:49 AM
S4s
 
Seraph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Castle Rock, CO USA
Posts: 419
Can't access the Google Drive file.

Jim S.
1995 Esprit S4s
Seraph is online now  
post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 06:55 AM
Registered User
 
4380r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 6,053
The answer, with no more info than what is given, is 'yes.'

Cars have lubrication and cooling systems to prevent overheating, for a reason.

You really cooked that oil.

My wife is an office manager for a collision and service shop that serves a wide variety of cars: from Teslas, to Jags (vintage and new), BMW, Cadillacs, Mercedes, Lexus, Rovers as well as all manner of 'normal' cars. Heck, they even serviced a Batmobile replica.

Just yesterday she was telling me that they had three different cars in the shop right now awaiting new engines because owners had run their cars overheated.
pb8226 likes this.

Have owned, enjoyed, appreciated, and now all gone:
1969 Europa S2 Blue
1970 Europa S2 White (my first)
1974 Europa Twin Cam Special Light Blue
1974 Europa Twin Cam Special #4380R Indigo Blue (my absolute favorite).
1984 Turbo Esprit Calypso Red
2005 Elise Starlight Black
2005 Elise Saffron Yellow
2005 Elise Ardent Red (used as development mule for the LETSLA)
2006 Exige Graphite Grey
2007 Exige S Canyon Red (first customer installation for the production LETSLA)
4380r is offline  
 
post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 07:06 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,485
Oil is not supposed to be "lumpy". Looks like you blew the head gaskets and coolant got into the crankcase. There are some tests that can be done to confirm that and pinpoint the problem. The engine may be salvageable depending on how bad the damage is. Not sure an unsecured header tank, by itself, could cause the overheat.
David Teitelbaum
pb8226 likes this.
jtrealty is offline  
post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 08:09 AM
Registered User
 
kostas86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 345
That definitely does not look good or promising.
pb8226 likes this.

Lotus Esprit V8
Lotus Exige S240
Lotus Elise *gone to a new home*
kostas86 is offline  
post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 08:33 AM
Registered User
 
esprit888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lotus land,BC, Canada
Posts: 725
I see a very expensive engine rebuild in your future, and that's assuming its rebuild-able (cracked heads? warped / cracked block?) 'lumpy' oil is a sure sign that the fluids have been mixed via the oil pump, and that's going to hurt anything lubricated with oil (I.E. crank) I've seen this so many times, and its one of the reasons to make sure your low coolant level alarm is functioning (or fit one if it doesn't have one) Most believe that should they have a severe coolant leak the temperature will rise on the gauge, that's incorrect, the temperature sensor bulb is designed to be immersed in coolant, once its isn't it does not read accurately or in a linear way, its now surrounded by air passing at different rates and temperatures but the readings indicated are not accurate and before you realize it its too late, damage is done. Its one of the reasons larger and more expensive engines have numerous safety devices built-in to shut the engine down should the low coolant sensor pass a predetermined set point, this shut down occurs before the temps exceed a critical level.
pb8226 likes this.
esprit888 is online now  
post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 08:49 AM
Project Addicted
 
Jcslocum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Eastern Shore, MD
Posts: 285
That looks quite bad, particularly the oil. A sad sight to see...
pb8226 likes this.

Jonboy

1984 Esprit Turbo "Vivian"
Jcslocum is offline  
post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 10:01 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraph View Post
Can't access the Google Drive file.
Sorry about that. This should work.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1_...ew?usp=sharing
pb8226 is offline  
post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 10:03 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 15
I want to thank everyone for their input, it is very much appreciated.
pb8226 is offline  
post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 10:06 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4380r View Post
The answer, with no more info than what is given, is 'yes.'

Cars have lubrication and cooling systems to prevent overheating, for a reason.

You really cooked that oil.

My wife is an office manager for a collision and service shop that serves a wide variety of cars: from Teslas, to Jags (vintage and new), BMW, Cadillacs, Mercedes, Lexus, Rovers as well as all manner of 'normal' cars. Heck, they even serviced a Batmobile replica.

Just yesterday she was telling me that they had three different cars in the shop right now awaiting new engines because owners had run their cars overheated.
To provide more background if you are interested. The header tank was not secured to its mounts after a repair at a shop and slid into the engine bay. I only noticed the issue when the temperature started spiking and coolant vapor was coming out as shown in the video.
pb8226 is offline  
post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 10:14 AM
Registered User
 
esprit888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lotus land,BC, Canada
Posts: 725
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb8226 View Post
To provide more background if you are interested. The header tank was not secured to its mounts after a repair at a shop and slid into the engine bay. I only noticed the issue when the temperature started spiking and coolant vapor was coming out as shown in the video.
If you do end up needing an engine i know Guy (Portland) has a low mileage one for sale, as does Slava.
pb8226 likes this.
esprit888 is online now  
post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 10:26 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by esprit888 View Post
If you do end up needing an engine i know Guy (Portland) has a low mileage one for sale, as does Slava.
Thank you, I'll definitely keep that in mind.
pb8226 is offline  
post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 12:07 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,485
I still don't see how an unsecured header tank could cause the motor to overheat. From the appearance of the paint on the R/H head it does look like it was severely "cooked". There is a low coolant level switch in the header tank but often they get so gummed up they get stuck and won't warn you of a low level. If you just had the car serviced and you found that tank loose I would go back to that shop and ask them what they are going to do about it. As much as a shop may have *some* responsibility for this, as an owner, if something is wrong you are not supposed to drive the car to destruction. You must have had some indication it wasn't running right, the temp gauge must have gone high, loss of power, something to tell you things were not running right! I call it "Mechanical Empathy". You wouldn't keep riding and flogging a horse to death, so why do that to a car?
David Teitelbaum
pb8226 likes this.
jtrealty is offline  
post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 03:09 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 15
David, thank you for your reply. I'm not sure if you're asking for more clarification but I can provide more specifics if you're interested. I've had the car for 12 years with no overheats before this issue.

I generally check the coolant once a week but since I received the car after a major service and was assured everything was checked on the car and anything needing replacing was replaced I did not check behind the engine cover before driving.
pb8226 is offline  
post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 03:41 PM
Registered User
 
Vulcan Grey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 4,436
I suppose it is very possible that the loose tank could have rubbed a hose, cracked due to impact, or otherwise lost the coolant after the service that was performed.

If the coolant system cannot hold the required ~21psi (for the Esprit V8) then the car will prematurely overheat, since the pressure would normally prevent the water from converting to steam at the normal temperatures. That could be the cause of your overheat... Especially considering that the coolant level sensor was probably not working due to the coolant reservoir being loose (the float probably doesn't work when held at an angle...)

You can pressure test the coolant system now that the head gasket has obviously blown, but you could isolate and pressure test the coolant reservoir!
pb8226 likes this.

Travis
Vulcan Grey Esprit 89 SE

My Lotus Project Photo Collection
Vulcan Grey is offline  
post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-22-2017, 02:55 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 15
That's a good summary of what happened. I can clarify that the shop agreed that the loose coolant tank caused the overheat. I had a three hour drive back home of only highway driving which is mostly likely why I didn't notice the evaporating coolant since at highway speeds the wind is very heavy and it was a hot day.

I was also less concerned about problems and smoke in my rear view mirror was the last thing I was looking for since Lotus USA told me to go to this shop and spoke highly of the shop's expertise.
pb8226 is offline  
post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-22-2017, 05:23 AM
Project Addicted
 
Jcslocum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Eastern Shore, MD
Posts: 285
The shop is gonna be spending big time to replace or fix that engine. Good luck with this.
pb8226 likes this.

Jonboy

1984 Esprit Turbo "Vivian"
Jcslocum is offline  
post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-22-2017, 07:18 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 15
This is basically where I'm at now. The shop acknowledges they caused the overheat. The problem is the shop is saying the overheat and the engine damage are completely unrelated. When the overheat happened I immediately let the shop know and they looked over the car and said everything looked fine. Then seven months later my oil looks like mud.

I've reached out and have been talking with Lotus USA who have been somewhat helpful but when I asked to give me a definitive answer on whether overheating the 918 engine, such as what happened in the video, can cause damage, so far it seems like they have been stalling. I'm waiting almost a week to get a straight answer from Lotus USA.

Everyone else I've talked to, from Lotus parts suppliers to other mechanics, are saying it is pretty clear the overheat caused something to fail. Maybe that something was not noticeable immediately and that's why the shop gave me a clean bill of health after the overheat.

Last edited by pb8226; 04-22-2017 at 07:32 AM.
pb8226 is offline  
post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-22-2017, 08:03 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Nevada City, CA
Posts: 277
This will probably be a ugly issue to resolve in court. It's going to wind up as a shared responsibility issue. Somewhere between David's response of owners being aware and the shop's responsibility of doing a correct job. The engine is most definitely cooked. It should be torn down and inspected for damage. It might be cheaper to just do a total engine rebuild without wasting time on inspection. Very sad to see.
pb8226 likes this.
Wayne Ellison is offline  
post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-22-2017, 08:09 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Ellison View Post
This will probably be a ugly issue to resolve in court. It's going to wind up as a shared responsibility issue. Somewhere between David's response of owners being aware and the shop's responsibility of doing a correct job. The engine is most definitely cooked. It should be torn down and inspected for damage. It might be cheaper to just do a total engine rebuild without wasting time on inspection. Very sad to see.
That's the most likely outcome, shared responsibility. I have been racking my brain thinking of what I could have done to prevent this, hindsight is always 20/20.
pb8226 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community > Lotus Discussions > Lotus Esprit

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome