What to get: NSX, 355, or Esprit V8

[Boosted2.0]

I would go Elise with either the Forcedfed kit or even better a custom GT35R turbo kit. It will be faster than everything you will ever meet unless you go hunting turbo Hiyabusas. And the beautiful thing about the GT series turbos is you can turn down the boost and still get great performance at a lower power level for the times when you don't feel like pressing a you shaped indentation firmly into your seat.

Hook up with Ronin when your back on leave and have him take you for a ride in his car and remember that its not even 400 to the tire....

Another possibility are the Lexus IS-F and Nissan Skyline which will be hitting the shores in the not too distant future. Theres a lot to be said for a brand new 400+ HP car with a warranty

[EspritMike]

Originally Posted by StallionX

yeah but porsches are a DIME a DOZEN

Yeah, so? And everyone knows that Esprits are exotic cars for the poor. The GT3 has a dry sump engine with titanium connecting rods and an 8200rpm redline, a rebuildable transaxle w/a cooler, threaded coilovers, adjustable antirollbars, 6 piston front brake calipers, etc., etc. It also sounds way better stock than any Esprit V8 I have ever heard (stock dual pipe, straight pipes, stock center exhaust, and Tubi) though a distant 3rd behind the 355 & 360 (jeez, I guess the V12 Fcars get in there too but I digress). The GT3 is anything but sterile. I really don't care if Joe A-hole knows what it is. I do.

If attention is your thing, here is your car. I see more Ferraris than Cobra replicas around here and you meet more than just teenage boys in it too.

[Imolas54]

Originally Posted by lotuson74

You have never heard a 06 BMW M5 V10 with Dinan exhaust - Everybit as good as ANY Ferrari/Lambo. even with Tubi!!!!!!!!!!

ummmm try try again.... you must have not driven/heard a 355 in action. Lambo doesn't even comes close in sound either...

just remember a zhonda sounds 1000x better than a f-car thou...

[StallionX]

Originally Posted by EspritMike

Yeah, so? And everyone knows that Esprits are exotic cars for the poor. The GT3 has a dry sump engine with titanium connecting rods and an 8200rpm redline, a rebuildable transaxle w/a cooler, threaded coilovers, adjustable antirollbars, 6 piston front brake calipers, etc., etc. It also sounds way better stock than any Esprit V8 I have ever heard (stock dual pipe, straight pipes, stock center exhaust, and Tubi) though a distant 3rd behind the 355 & 360 (jeez, I guess the V12 Fcars get in there too but I digress). The GT3 is anything but sterile. I really don't care if Joe A-hole knows what it is. I do.

If attention is your thing, here is your car. I see more Ferraris than Cobra replicas around here and you meet more than just teenage boys in it too.

I'm confused here.. just because I said porsches are a dime a dozen you have to insult the esprit..

So how does a 100k car justify as an exotic for the poor? people like you crack me up..

Do you realize that people who earn 6+ figure salaries in the US account for about 5% of the population..

I would even hazard to guess that anyone who could purchase an esprit AND maintain the car likely makes 150k or more.. Perhaps for you that is poor.. but not in my eyes..

Just because someone desires something more than the a common porsche, (and regardless how great the porsche's are.. they are common) perhaps wants to stand out or just desires something more exotic, I do not think there is anything wrong with that.. It seems you do though.. and it is unclear why..

and I absolutely DO NOT agree that the gt3 sounds better stock than a v8, I think the esprit v8 sounds AWESOME

[EspritMike]

As I mentioned, I had an Esprit S4s for 6 years and really enjoyed it. I was not blind to its various shortcomings though. So, tongue planted firmly in cheek, I bring you

Top 10 Reasons Esprits Suck

10) 5 speed transaxle with open differential (I put an LSD in mine) made of sawdust and paste.
9) Mid-70s steering geometry. Remember when anti-ackermann was in vogue? Also known as "why the hell are the insides of my front tires getting screwed up?" and "stock alignment is toe-OUT?"
8) Giant front brake and tire forces "controlled" through control arms and bushings designed when a performance tire was 185/50-15.
7) Somewhere, a Grand-Am is missing its steering wheel.
6) Noodle-o-matic chassis that has 1/2 the torsional rigidity of a modern BMW *convertible*. Or 1/4 of an Elise if you prefer.
5) (for '97 and earlier ABS cars) The worst POS AC-Delco ABS you can ever imagine.
4) My kit car is missing its door hinges.
3) Bucket-o-bolts internal door design (no lie, the pre-Simkin LCU field engineer called it exactly that to me).
2) Randomized temp and oil pressure gauges (and a 7 bar gauge for the 4cyl cars that have 5psi at idle!) They got smarter for the later V8 cars - they took most of the gauges out!
1) Is that a Lamborghini?

[PhlypSide]

Originally Posted by EspritMike

....I really don't care if Joe A-hole knows what it is. I do.....

Mike:

You have succinctly summed up my feelings on any car that's not "overtly awesome".

This is why I love the Ariel Atom and even find it attractive, whereas many say it's "ugly" or "not a whole car".

[EspritMike]

Originally Posted by StallionX

I'm confused here.. just because I said porsches are a dime a dozen you have to insult the esprit..

So how does a 100k car justify as an exotic for the poor? people like you crack me up..

You need a thicker skin. A little dig on Porsches gets a little dig on Esprits in kind. No need for a long missive.

And, of course, Esprit V8s were never 100k cars, even new. And now... My buddy bought a showroom perfect '01 last summer for $45k. It was such a smoking deal I considered another but I wanted something different. I was also tired of climbing into a 45" tall car.

Just because someone desires something more than the a common porsche, (and regardless how great the porsche's are.. they are common) perhaps wants to stand out or just desires something more exotic, I do not think there is anything wrong with that.. It seems you do though.. and it is unclear why..

I wonder if you've been following along. I've owned TWO Esprits. At once. Did you miss my username?

[StallionX]

Originally Posted by EspritMike

As I mentioned, I had an Esprit S4s for 6 years and really enjoyed it. I was not blind to its various shortcomings though. So, tongue planted firmly in cheek, I bring you

Top 10 Reasons Esprits Suck

10) 5 speed transaxle with open differential (I put an LSD in mine) made of sawdust and paste.
9) Mid-70s steering geometry. Remember when anti-ackermann was in vogue? Also known as "why the hell are the insides of my front tires getting screwed up?" and "stock alignment is toe-OUT?"
8) Giant front brake and tire forces "controlled" through control arms and bushings designed when a performance tire was 185/50-15.
7) Somewhere, a Grand-Am is missing its steering wheel.
6) Noodle-o-matic chassis that has 1/2 the torsional rigidity of a modern BMW *convertible*. Or 1/4 of an Elise if you prefer.
5) (for '97 and earlier ABS cars) The worst POS AC-Delco ABS you can ever imagine.
4) My kit car is missing its door hinges.
3) Bucket-o-bolts internal door design (no lie, the pre-Simkin LCU field engineer called it exactly that to me).
2) Randomized temp and oil pressure gauges (and a 7 bar gauge for the 4cyl cars that have 5psi at idle!) They got smarter for the later V8 cars - they took most of the gauges out!
1) Is that a Lamborghini?

I love how the esprit haters are also currently not esprit owners..

hey amigo I have spent plenty of time in the cobra replica.. and I think it's gorgeous and fast and straight up thrilling.. but it's far less automobile than a car like a Lotus Esprit..

BTW, if you do some reasearch on the ferrari 355 there are almost just as many negative comments on those cars.. look up lamborghini diablo's plenty of critisisms..

I will go so far as to say the most exotic and special cars are nowhere near as well built/designed as something like a bmw m3..

As Jeremy Clarkson is fond of saying after all his gripes of random exotics, including the esprit "...and guess what, once you are driving the car, none of it matters..."

I can care less about that entire list, it is taken from someone who obsessively looks for any problems.. All I know is that when I see the car, get in the car and drive the car.. the feeling is complete..

BTW the esprit v8 keeps up with ALL the 996's ferrari 360's at the track..

[JeffYoung]

Mike -- don't argue with the Lotus Flowers about the Mighty Esprit! They will go bonkers on you!

I liked my 93.5 SE a lot. Some other things to add to the "list":

1. The damn Lotus engineer who tilted the 910 over at a 30 degree angle and then installed crappy cam cover gaskets allowing oil to fill the spark plug wells and drip on the header. Yeah baby!

2. That wonderful spongy **** they put underneath the gas tanks that soaks up water and allows the tanks to swin in their own murky pull of rust inducing sludge.

3. All of the great places you have to put your left foot. All zero of them.

4. The whole car is a bucket of bolts. Take two Esprits that came off the assembly line within weeks of each other and marvel at the different fasteners Winston used on his versus the ones that Nigel used on his. And in different locations too!

5. The tranny mounts that get brittle with heat and crack. Repeatedly. The exhaust manifolds that crack. Repeatedly.

6. Toyota Celica brakes up front! Renault Le Car brakes in the back! I kid you not!

Fun car though, fast in a straight line.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by StallionX

I'm confused here.. just because I said porsches are a dime a dozen you have to insult the esprit..

So how does a 100k car justify as an exotic for the poor? people like you crack me up..

Do you realize that people who earn 6+ figure salaries in the US account for about 5% of the population..

I would even hazard to guess that anyone who could purchase an esprit AND maintain the car likely makes 150k or more.. Perhaps for you that is poor.. but not in my eyes..

Just because someone desires something more than the a common porsche, (and regardless how great the porsche's are.. they are common) perhaps wants to stand out or just desires something more exotic, I do not think there is anything wrong with that.. It seems you do though.. and it is unclear why..

and I absolutely DO NOT agree that the gt3 sounds better stock than a v8, I think the esprit v8 sounds AWESOME

I understood your point and I also understand your point about the special feeling you get from a car, the experience. I totally agree. And if you don't care about that feeling and just want the numbers then get a Vette. Again, I agree.

What I believe about Porsche, especially the new 997 GT3, is that it would give you that feeling; the only thing it may lake is exlusivity. I know that about .001% of the members on this board have driven the new 997 GT3, and that includes myself. However, I am willing to bet a lot of money that most here would love that car if given the chance to spend some real time with it on and off the track; even when coming from our light weight cars.

I understand how the looks, the sounds, the feel and even the name of a car can affect someone, and how it adds to the experience; but the exlusivity I don't care. Like the guy said above, if you have a new GT3 you will know what you have; and even though it may look exactly like every other 911 and even Boxster and Cayman; it is one heck of a special car that I would expect it to leave a permanent scar on any true enthusiast's heart.

That being said it does come in at a base of 107.5K for '08 and that is a lot of money for most people including myself. I will have to trade or sell my Exige S to buy it; and even then I am relly, really pushing it.

I have never driven one; but I imagine it will be like the POW who in his mind played golf for years without ever picking up a golf club and then came back to freedom and played a perfect game of golf the first time around!

One thing is for sure, there are many great cars out today ranging from $20K to $200K. It is a great time to be a car enthusiast.

[StallionX]

Originally Posted by EspritMike

You need a thicker skin. A little dig on Porsches gets a little dig on Esprits in kind. No need for a long missive.

And, of course, Esprit V8s were never 100k cars, even new. And now... My buddy bought a showroom perfect '01 last summer for $45k. It was such a smoking deal I considered another but I wanted something different. I was also tired of climbing into a 45" tall car.

I wonder if you've been following along. I've owned TWO Esprits. At once. Did you miss my username?

http://car-reviews.automobile.com/Lo...-overview/972/

Lotus Esprit Specifications

Price Range (MSRP): $90,825 - $94,720
Body Type: 2-door convertible
Layout: front engine, RWD
Engine: 350 hp, 295 lb-ft of torque, 3.5-L, DOHC, 48-valve twin-turbo V8
Transmission: 5-spd manual
Acceleration (0 - 60 mph): 4.4 seconds
Top Speed: 180 mph
Brakes (front/rear): disc/disc, ABS
Curb Weight: 3,042 lbs
Seating Capacity: 2
Cargo Volume (trunk): 5.3 cu ft
Fuel Economy (city/hwy): 15 / 23 mpg
Warranty (mo/miles): 24 / unlimited comprehensive - 24 / unlimited powertrain
Direct Competitors: Acura NSX, Dodge Viper, Ferrari 360 Modena, Lamborghini Gallardo, Maserati 4200 GT, Porsche 911 Turbo
Website: www.lotuscars.com


ok not 100k, 94k.. toss in 6% sales tax.. 100k+

give me a break man..


I KNEW little jeffyyoung would chime in here.. find a post with some esprit hate and all the ex esprit owners who also have an ax to grind (against god knows what, it's just a ****ing car) that have escaped the looneybin will jump in!! hey jeffy!


BTW -
Esprit mike

your bucket of bolts esprit's are GORGEOUS.. both of them.. too bad you can't appreciate them.. hope you sold them to someone who does.

[JeffYoung]

Horse boy! Find someone who actually PAID $100k for an Esprit and I'll give you $100! Those things rotted on lots for years. Hell, the list on my car (a 93.5) was $82k! And it took two years to sell, imagine that.

I've got no axe to grind, I'm too small! Seriously dude, you must have lost some language capability along the way and became a selective reader. I liked my car. A lot. Just, like some guys who own/owned them, I don't think it was the end all be all, cause it isn't. But the deal is......drum roll.....

HAVE FUN WITH YOUR CARS!

Cause that is what is all about right? If you like the Esprit (I did), get one! Drive it!

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by StallionX

http://car-reviews.automobile.com/Lo...-overview/972/

Lotus Esprit Specifications

Price Range (MSRP): $90,825 - $94,720
Body Type: 2-door convertible
Layout: front engine, RWD
Engine: 350 hp, 295 lb-ft of torque, 3.5-L, DOHC, 48-valve twin-turbo V8
Transmission: 5-spd manual
Acceleration (0 - 60 mph): 4.4 seconds
Top Speed: 180 mph
Brakes (front/rear): disc/disc, ABS
Curb Weight: 3,042 lbs
Seating Capacity: 2
Cargo Volume (trunk): 5.3 cu ft
Fuel Economy (city/hwy): 15 / 23 mpg
Warranty (mo/miles): 24 / unlimited comprehensive - 24 / unlimited powertrain
Direct Competitors: Acura NSX, Dodge Viper, Ferrari 360 Modena, Lamborghini Gallardo, Maserati 4200 GT, Porsche 911 Turbo
Website: www.lotuscars.com


ok not 100k, 94k.. toss in 6% sales tax.. 100k+

give me a break man..


I KNEW little jeffyyoung would chime in here.. find a post with some esprit hate and all the ex esprit owners who also have an ax to grind (against god knows what, it's just a ****ing car) that have escaped the looneybin will jump in!! hey jeffy!


BTW -
Esprit mike

your bucket of bolts esprit's are GORGEOUS.. both of them.. too bad you can't appreciate them.. hope you sold them to someone who does.

It think you missed his point. Sure the car may be about 100K, but they depreicate so bad they are worth half that new.

Also, your above source is not the best since it states that the Esprit is front engine.

The Esprit is a great car that has left its mark; I wouldn't diss it and I do respect it. It certainly is more rare and exlusive than a 911, that is for sure. I think I see about 100 911's for every Esprit.

[StallionX]

ok, here is info direct from the Esprit Fact file on the 2003-2004 Esprit V8 price
http://www.espritfactfile.com

"The base MSRP for the 2004MY was 94,125.00US. "

Sure the car depreciated rapidly.. but that is not the issue here.. hell a 2002 996 TT S edition with painfully low miles (under 20,000) is going for 50% new car price (70k).. Does that mean the MSRP of the 996 TT S was not 144,000???

No, just means the market for whatever reason is slaughtering the used value.. it's still a 144,000 dollar car new..

Depreciation is not the issue, if anything it's a huge mistake.. Joe Schmoe decides to spend his 50k on a 2000 Esprit instead of a new vette then can't afford the maintenance.. and unloads the esprit for 40k to get out of the deal.. hence the cheap used esprits..

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by StallionX

Just because someone desires something more than the a common porsche, (and regardless how great the porsche's are.. they are common) perhaps wants to stand out or just desires something more exotic, I do not think there is anything wrong with that.. It seems you do though.. and it is unclear why..

and I absolutely DO NOT agree that the gt3 sounds better stock than a v8, I think the esprit v8 sounds AWESOME

No, there is nothing wrong with that, to each their own.

What is funny is that to me a car standing out is a pretty big negative and I am driving an orange Exige S. I really can't imagine standing out much more than that. Keep in mind that many still think it is a $300K Lambo or Ferrari. I honestly don't believe that a brand new CO Gallardo Spyder (do they make those) would get any more attention; the average Joe just sees it as a crazy looking exotic.

As for the sound of a GT3; you really should hear the new 997 exhaust on sport mode at full howl before you make that comment; just to be fair. Same goes for me on both cars!

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by StallionX

ok, here is info direct from the Esprit Fact file on the 2003-2004 Esprit V8 price
http://www.espritfactfile.com

"The base MSRP for the 2004MY was 94,125.00US. "

Sure the car depreciated rapidly.. but that is not the issue here.. hell a 2002 996 TT S edition with painfully low miles (under 20,000) is going for 50% new car price (70k).. Does that mean the MSRP of the 996 TT S was not 144,000???

No, just means the market for whatever reason is slaughtering the used value.. it's still a 144,000 dollar car new..

Depreciation is not the issue, if anything it's a huge mistake.. Joe Schmoe decides to spend his 50k on a 2000 Esprit instead of a new vette then can't afford the maintenance.. and unloads the esprit for 40k to get out of the deal.. hence the cheap used esprits..

I can't argue that; you are correct. The Porsches have taken a big hit also.

[JeffYoung]

Actually, the reason Esprits are cheap is because there isn't a large pool of buyers for them. Please! This is not an insult on the Esprit! It just is. There are only so many potential buyers, and that pool is small.

You basically get to sell your Esprit when you find someone who really wants one. Lotus found this out too...lol....You could get new Esprits up until very recently, some of them 01 and 02 vintage that had been sitting on lots for years. Years I say!

Most of the V8s I have seen are/were in good shape. The maintenance issue really starts to rear its ugly head after the car has been owned a few times and been through one PO who just didn't take care of the car. Happens to Ferraris too -- there are some DOG 308/328/348s out there.

[StallionX]

Originally Posted by Stephen

No, there is nothing wrong with that, to each their own.

What is funny is that to me a car standing out is a pretty big negative and I am driving an orange Exige S. I really can't imagine standing out much more than that. Keep in mind that many still think it is a $300K Lambo or Ferrari. I honestly don't believe that a brand new CO Gallardo Spyder (do they make those) would get any more attention; the average Joe just sees it as a crazy looking exotic.

As for the sound of a GT3; you really should hear the new 997 exhaust on sport mode at full howl before you make that comment; just to be fair. Same goes for me on both cars!

Stephen,

heard it and love it! and it's a track king.. the GT3 have TREMENDOUS respect from me as a track car and I am fully aware of how spectacular the car is..

that being said the last track day at poconoo (and lotus74 can chime in here) Kirk brought his 04 esprit and 05 elise to the track.. we had nsx, a TON of 911 turbo's and 2 gallardo's and everyone was ogling his Esprit and Elise, Especially the elise..

I think it's hilarious that on this forum of all places we are talking how much curb appeal is not important when the elise/exige is probably one of the most exotic/expensive looking cars on the road today..

[StallionX]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I can't argue that; you are correct. The Porsches have taken a big hit also.

Yeah and by god what a value that is.. guy I know has a FANTASTIC 2002 991 Turbo S that he bought for 72k with something like 13,000 miles on it..

Ridiculous..

[EspritMike]

Originally Posted by StallionX

I love how the esprit haters are also currently not esprit owners..

Dude, you are awesome. I stated VERY CLEARLY that not only did I enjoy owning my Esprits but I considered buying another one. I'm an Esprit hater because I recognize that God himself did not put them on this earth but a tiny little company in Hethel with barely two pence (or shillings or whatever those guys call 'em) to rub together? Name one thing on my or Jeff's list that is inaccurate.

Guess what? I could compile a similar list for my GT3. You should hear it start up after a few days. Sounds like a box of rocks until the cam chain tensioner pumps up. Don't touch the brakes when the front tire is 6" in the air as you crawl into a driveway at an angle (every single one with 4" of ground clearance) or the ABS system will fault and shut off until you restart the car. The transaxle sounds like it's coming apart around slow tight corners because the LSD is set so tight. Oh, and the radio in a car that had an MSRP of 109k would suck in a Kia. See? I'm equal opportunity.

BTW the esprit v8 keeps up with ALL the 996's ferrari 360's at the track..

hahahahahah. Awesome. Awesome, I tell you.

your bucket of bolts esprit's are GORGEOUS.. both of them.. too bad you can't appreciate them.. hope you sold them to someone who does.

The hits keep coming and coming. I'm never going to get any work done. I repeated the "bucket of bolts" comment from the Head Field Engineer of Lotus Cars USA. My mechanic (the best Esprit mechanic in the US IMHO) and I used to laugh about the various bits of "character" sprinkled liberally throughout the car. Conversation in his old, gorgeous S4s: Me: "Man, this thing is awesome. Nothing squeaking or rattling at all." Him (laughing): "Yeah, all the parts are still moving together as the chassis flexes."

Be honest now, how much have you actually worked on your car? The check-wrench doesn't count. Here's an extensive history of my S4s. I paid for work but I was also inside nearly every system in both cars.