Is there such a thing as a FWD (front-wheel drive) sportscar?

[Elanlover]

You know, this is a really good forum. Lots of neat things in it, its well designed, great user features and I ESPECIALLY love all the personal info one can view in another profile. Things like age (transio, you young whippersnapper you!), pics and...........people's favorite webpages.

Uhmm..........Phlyp, was this a site you started or one you just like to frequent.

http://notfwd.com/main/index.php


It is listed as your "home page"..............

[Geordie]

Phil,

I hope you don't mind calling you Phil because Phylip is so formal. Your original reply to dapinky was a rather grand "Welcome to the home of Lotus" which you subsequently changed to "Welcome, cool someone from the home of Lotus" after it was pointed out to you that the US was not the only country in the world, or indeed in the centre of it.

Judging by the nature and tone of your other posts, I must ask: Do you often suffer from dilusions from grandeur? Oh, and I'd also be interested to hear your views on football.

No idea what it means but I've never seen a skipping sheep before, even in Wales.

[Geordie]

Originally Posted by Elanlover

http://notfwd.com/main/index.php

Phil,

What have you got against Four Wheel Drive? I've heard it's quite good off-road.

[AV8NDOC]

Originally Posted by Geordie

Phil,

What have you got against Four Wheel Drive? I've heard it's quite good off-road.

I think the answer lies in here somewhere:

Originally Posted by Elanlover

I want to hijack this thread and start my own poll. Please feel free to vote according to the options presented below. In doing so, it might be useful to reread some of PhlypSide's comments about Neons, grocery getters, etc.

QUESTION:

Why did PhlypSide start this poll?

Choices:

1. He had his a$$ handed to him at a street light by a Neon driver and now feels he must belittle anything FWD to make himself feel better about his embarassing "loss".

2. At the grocery store, he spun out his Elise on a rogue orange while watching a Ford Focus navigate this obstacle course with ease.

3. He truly has no understanding of what makes a sportscar a sportscar and this is his chosen method of seeking other's opinions in this twisted quest for knowledge.

4. He's secretly running 3 other similar polls on 3 other forums and is copying and pasting all the intelligent answers found here under his own name making himself look smarter than he really is.

5. He's been hiding the fact that he has FWD envy from his teenage days driving a 1975 Honda Civic and, having never been able to release himself from its grip, attempts to hide his shame by mocking FWD cars.


Pick one please and remember that well thought out "write-in" answers are welcome.

Well, I vote 1 and 3 for sure !!

Definitely not 2 as he don't got no Elise

[Geordie]

Originally Posted by AV8NDOC

Definitely not 2 as he don't got no Elise [/b][/color]

Oh dear. He seems to spend a lot of time on here though. Phil baby, "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's Lotus"

[Geordie]

Originally Posted by PhlypSide

I do respect that you M100 fanatics love the car as much as you do, but honestly if anything, it is the modern exception to the rule.

So why vote "Hell no" to your question "Is there such a thing as a front wheel drive sportscar"?

The M100 has, amongst other things, innovative and patented front suspension to overcome many of the shortcomings of front wheel drive and is probbably like no other front wheel drive car. Phil, maybe its time for you to sell your Chelsea/Chicago tractor and buy a Lotus! Tell me, if you did, would it be the first Lotus you had owned/driven?

[Geordie]

Originally Posted by PhilipSide

Thanks to you the M100 (which before these threads I was neutral on) has one less (very vocal) fan.

So you base your decision on what car to like on the basis of your perception of the owners. Hmmmm, very scientific.

[chrisngrod]

So that's pretty comical that you don't consider a sportscar anything that is FWD, but you can take the drivetrain out of a Celica, put it in the rear and change other components to make one.

[zr1fan]

Originally Posted by PhlypSide

The first Thunderbirds were sportscars to me, but the newest retro one was FWD, and therefore not a sportscar to me (or many ).

There has never been a FWD Thunderbird that I'm aware of. The last gen was a 2-seat RWD car based on the Lincoln LS (non-econobox) platform.

So I suppose then to you it's a sports car, despite it's boulevard ride tuning and lack of all-out performance. So clearly you really feel that if you can check some boxes, it's a sports car, and the actual car and experience are totally irrelevant. It's quite a corner you've painted yourself into.

Edit: You'd also have to concede that the Plymouth Prowler is a sports car, as it satisfies your checkboxes.

[zr1fan]

After 17 pages, I don't know what I hope to accomplish by tossing this out, but ehh...

For those who think FWD can't be a sports car because you feel it's not the optimal layout for performance, how do you feel about other sub-optimal (performance-wise) design decisions?

Can a convertible be a sports car? You could make the same argument that all else being equal, a fixed-roof car will have a handling edge over a convertible due to chassis stiffness and probably weight. It will also have a speed advantage due to the drag coefficient.

Of course you can do things to mitigate the compromise, but that's true of FWD, and pretty much any other choices you make.

[Elanlover]

Originally Posted by zr1fan

..........

Originally Posted by Geordie

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Originally Posted by AV8NDOC

...........

Originally Posted by chrisngod

...........

One after another, after another............Its like the Hindenberg falling from the sky.

Oh the Humanity!

Come on Phlyp, admit it. Any drivetrain platform can be a sportscar. Even FWD. Go on, its ok. It'll feel better when its all over. Like a weight from your shoulders. You want to do it. You know you do


Of course, you might have to take down your website slagging FWD cars.
http://notfwd.com/main/index.php

[Geordie]

Originally Posted by zr1fan

Can a convertible be a sports car? .... chassis stiffness

Not wanting to inflame the situation but, in my personal opinion, how can a sports car be anything other than a true convertible? We spend too much time locked up in air conditioned offices and cars.

Again, with true inventiveness, Lotus combined the roadster concept and innovative engineering to give an unheard of degree of chassis stiffness in the M100.

[Geordie]

Originally Posted by Elanlover

Come on Phlyp, admit it. Any drivetrain platform can be a sportscar. Even FWD. Go on, its ok. It'll feel better when its all over. Like a weight from your shoulders. You want to do it. You know you do

Drive backwards if it will make you feel any better!

[zr1fan]

Originally Posted by Geordie

Not wanting to inflame the situation but, in my personal opinion, how can a sports car be anything other than a true convertible? We spend too much time locked up in air conditioned offices and cars.

Well, I wouldn't necessarily agree with that, but I'd agree with the sentiment. Being a sports car is about the experience, about the overriding focus or goal of the car that the compromises are geared towards. Not about any particular one decision, technology, layout, or design.

As it happens, generally they are RWD, generally they are 2-seaters, generally there are a lot of similar characteristics sports cars share. But they aren't etched in stone. You can have a performance focus and still use a different set of compromises than the norm.

[Elanlover]

Originally Posted by zr1fan

Well, I wouldn't necessarily agree with that, but I'd agree with the sentiment. Being a sports car is about the experience, about the overriding focus or goal of the car that the compromises are geared towards. Not about any particular one decision, technology, layout, or design.

As it happens, generally they are RWD, generally they are 2-seaters, generally there are a lot of similar characteristics sports cars share. But they aren't etched in stone. You can have a performance focus and still use a different set of compromises than the norm.

I disagree. Personally, I spend way too much time locked up in air conditioned offices and cars.

[dapinky]

Hi Phil,

I feel that now we're all mates (buddies?) I can call you that, although I see from your profile that your name is actually Jack (or is that to confuse me?).

I find it amusing that people feel the need to hide behind a pseudonym whilst making somewhat inapropriate (if not downright disparaging) remarks. Yes, my name IS dapinky!!!!

Hey, bud, where did you get the idea that I started the personal attacks on pages 9 / 10 ? I CAN do personal attack, but this is not the time or place for unecessary nonsense!

I put forward reasoned argument in a civil and courteous manner, and where i drifted into opinion, it was clearly stated to be such.

I believe that if you were to read it correctly (Plain Queens English, not colloquialism) you will have to concede that point!

I also think that YOU started the personal attack by completely ripping apart my post in a microanalytical fashion, pouring scorn on anything you didn't like, despite the fact that i backed up all of my points with fact. Even in the world of political debate, there are 'rules' concerning behaviour, and it is still a fact that courtesy is extended to every Member of Parliament when they make a 'maiden speech'. with a member of the opposing party always thanking the 'new boy' for his/her valued contribution to a democratic process. (just because you were ignorant of the particular facts, don't wory about it, we're ALL still learning new things).

To quote another passage from Oscar Wilde, "Knowledge comes in two forms, actual knowledge of the subject, and knowing where to find the answers."

I believe that you are either deliberately or accidentally misquoting me in your last couple of posts. The dictionary definition I quoted states USUALLY 2 seats, not that a sportscar MUST have 2 seats.
This is both good and bad news for your arguments.

GOOD = Maclarren F1 can be a sportscar (I personally don't think so, because it has a roof!)
BAD = So can any number of cars with 2+2, 4, 5 or more seats (Probably excluding a London Double-decker bus, but no mention of how many storeys a sportscar can have?)

Taxcheat - one for you (on a totally unrelated subject), on your signature, you state that Lotus is the plural of Lotus, not Loti, Firstly I assume you're using Websters American Dictionary, not Oxford English????

Secondly, it also depends on whether or not you are refering to cars, flowers or people!

As I'm sure you know, Colin Chapman named the car after his daughter, not the flower of the same name.

Lets all be friends, after all, we're all Lotus owners here aren't we (some more than others)

[Geordie]

Originally Posted by dapinky

(Probably excluding a London Double-decker bus...

even an open topped one!

[dapinky]

Originally Posted by Geordie

even an open topped one!

[PhlypSide]

Originally Posted by Elanlover

One after another, after another............Its like the Hindenberg falling from the sky.

Oh the Humanity!

Come on Phlyp, admit it. Any drivetrain platform can be a sportscar. Even FWD. Go on, its ok. It'll feel better when its all over. Like a weight from your shoulders. You want to do it. You know you do


Of course, you might have to take down your website slagging FWD cars.
http://notfwd.com/main/index.php

Bahahaah I don't like FWD cars >=P I didn't notice all the M100 n00bs making personal attacks.

FWD != sportscar, no matter how blue in the face you and the M100 posse get trying to convince the rest of the world otherwise

[PhlypSide]

Originally Posted by Geordie

Phil,

I hope you don't mind calling you Phil because Phylip is so formal. Your original reply to dapinky was a rather grand "Welcome to the home of Lotus" which you subsequently changed to "Welcome, cool someone from the home of Lotus" after it was pointed out to you that the US was not the only country in the world, or indeed in the centre of it.

Judging by the nature and tone of your other posts, I must ask: Do you often suffer from dilusions from grandeur? Oh, and I'd also be interested to hear your views on football.

No idea what it means but I've never seen a skipping sheep before, even in Wales.

I fixed it because I put it down wrong. It was originally, "Welcome from the home of Lotus" as in, dapinky is from the home (country) of Lotus.

And the second version is much more clear to what I meant to put down so I did.

Now as to the rest of your utterly useless banter, I don't know [facetious]I've got no more delusions then those of M100 guys who think their cars are sportscars.[/facetious] >=P