Is there such a thing as a FWD (front-wheel drive) sportscar?

[PhlypSide]

Originally Posted by dapinky

I think that shows your inability to remember what argument you are perpetuating - They were your homophobic, and therefore totaly unacceptable, words.

How is that homophobic, is it because creepy stalkers can only be heterosexual? Among your many self bestowed titles, you can add one: you are a master of jumping to conclusions. I think you've offended romantic (but creepy) stalkers everywhere by limiting them to heterosexual scenarios only! LOL!

I think it's quite clear that Elanlover is a guy and I'm a guy, so if he's stalking me like a jilted lover (LOL!), it's certainly not heterosexual, now is it?

Nowhere did I make a judgement call against homosexuality, merely that if Elanlover were homosexual, that sadly for him, I "don't play for that team". (This is slang here, and not derisive slang at that.)

Originally Posted by dapinky

I said Homosexuality was a matter of nature, not genetic - please try to learn the language nuances (Queens English). Besides that, it has been shown that it is a natural deformity of the 13th pair of chromosomes which manifests itself in gender/sexuality orientation.

Fascinating! Your logic is truly dizzying semantics is now the name of your game?

Originally Posted by dapinky

I'm not knocking any of the cars in your superb line-up - just wondering where the 'nice' ones are?

Truly, you are either blind, or a pompous @ss or both All of them are nice, some of them are more expen$ive if that's what suits you... second row far right is an easy answer. The R34 and G35 cars in the prior picture.... there are far more than you can see, evidently, never mind the high powered S2000 in that picture or the numerous "GTO"s

What has 'Lotus' & 'Low power' got to do with anything???

You were knocking on the front two cars as being "low powered", please don't start backpedaling now

Originally Posted by dapinky

Your argument reminds me of the sort of guy who thinks that power = penis.

No clearly that was your argument behind your unceremonius belittling of the Toyota and Nissan cars in the second photo. I can't claim that one, that's all yours

Originally Posted by dapinky

I've not claimed to be an authority on everything, I started off putting right your incorrect statements, went on to stating MY opinion, and now you don't like it, you're going to pick up your ball and go home, just 'cos you can't score a goal.

"Score a goal"? LOL! That would imply that I'm engaging in something more than chit-chat with you. You started with your personal attacks in your second post, I merely welcomed you and stated my differing opinion in my first response to you. You've got the issues and you've got to convince the rest of the world that FWD cars can be sportscars, not me

Originally Posted by dapinky

Power is NOT greatly important to me, nor is the platform / drivetrain arrangement, I buy cars that I like, not just to look good to the other boys in the car park, but then, I'm quite happy with my dick size

Are you sure, you're tying the penis size to drivetrain arrangement. I think you're "protesting too much" to be truly comfortable in your own shorts Are you some kind of missionary trying to convert me to your "sportscar" hardship case view of the world?

Originally Posted by dapinky

I've had (and still own) cars which were made before you were born with almost enough power to outrun a hedgehog - they were great innovations.

I've also had control of machinary with far more power than most people on here - another big grin factor!

There you are bragging again about who-gives-a-rats-ass what!

Good for you, here's a a proverbial "cookie" and a /pat on your head. You are presuming far too much about the audience you're speaking to. Not everyone has to put out their conveniently and situationally appropriate "resume" in basically vain attempts to build credibility

Originally Posted by dapinky

But none of that matters to this thread - There are 2 underlying FACTS that you have not yet disproved, (other than by changing the rules!)

[1] a FWD car CAN be a sportscar.

[2] Phlypside is a man of insufficient vocabulary to hold a debate.

And before you choose to ignore me, I'm off to a 'real world' where opinions are accepted, facts expounded, discussions held, AND I AM RIGHT

Other than your blatant personal attacks, you're quite the accomplished one! Should we look for your memoirs in the local bookshop soon?

[PhlypSide]

Originally Posted by Westrock

No you idiot, because if the Elise/Exige was front wheel drive it would have been a completely different car (looks and performance wise). And like I said in that thread, having a mid ship motor and a drive train up to the front is completely illogical. Due to the size though it would probably would have performed alot better than many other cars out there. I've seen some CRX's hold their own on a road course, and thats about what a FWD Elise would be like.

Now I have no problems with FWD, but I am not going to spend $50K-$60K dollars on a car and it be FWD. Now does that indicate that I'm acknowledging that FWD is not the optimal platform? Yes it does. However I still stand by and point to the fact that FWD cars can be formidiable opponents in the real world.

You must be a standup guy in your mind.

And you're an idiot for not reading post #1 in that thread (here's a hint for you:.... and all that entails).

You've imposed that it would be a rear-mounted/midship motor and still drive the front-wheels.

My view is actually compatible with yours, especially since you're not saying that FWD cars are sportscars.

[PhlypSide]

Originally Posted by Elanlover

Its pretty clear that things are exactly as I suspected. You are the one with a chip on your shoulder. Not the rest of us...... To justify your own opinion. Not to honestly seek out the opinions of others.....
You simply refuse to acknowledge anything that doesn't fit into your pre-determined way of thinking. You have a very feeble grasp on reality.

That quote actually sums up your behavior and thinking

Originally Posted by Elanlover

Your "posse" clearly doesn't do track racing. Anyone who's spent any meaningful time on a track with others would know that you just don't blow off another car and driver because its FWD. Your forum pics seem to indicate that your limited racing experience is performed in underground garages and parking lots.

Blow off? Most of our group merely doesn't prefer FWD cars and have grown quite complacent of them since they're EVERYWHERE. We don't hate them, but they really are overdone for us and we're simply not interested in them. (Sadly, IMO,) There are plenty of publications, sites, and groups already dedicated to FWD cars.

Again, you're making alot of assumptions, especially on the "posse" not doing track racing. I love it! Please do keep on with your smug assumptions, never mind that we have NASA driving instructors in our group.

Originally Posted by Elanlover

Anyone, with any real understanding of the original topic, even if they did originally vote no in your poll, would by now understand that FWD cars are just as much sportscars as RWD cars (or at least can be). This could have ended quickly and quietly with a simple "Hey, you might be right there". Even a simple admission that the possibility exists for FWD cars to be sportscars by you would have dramatically changed the tone of this thread and the people who vehemently oppose its now obvious intention.

We're just discussing an idea, a notion here, afterall who has the authoritative domain over what a concept like "sportscar" means? You are far too butt-hurt about people even hinting that they don't think the M100 Elan is a sportscar. So what if they don't?

In the absence of an authoritative concept or definition, I'm going to defer to the old "takes one to know one" approach and that's why I asked the question here (and not in M100land ).

Originally Posted by Elanlover

You've been revealed as the close minded, hypocritical and petty person you are for everyone here to see. Only a small minded individual with a serious lack of meaningful knowledge about cars would create an entire website dedicated to ridiculing FWD cars and their owners. Please continue hanging out with your 6 man FWD bashing crew who's numbers can only become smaller as automotive enginner adavnces further and further.

Nice incomplete analysis, I suppose the rear wheels just coasting along does just fine for you automotively, so reading the "Cliff's Notes" versions of everything works for you too. We don't bash FWD cars (although I think it'd be fun to start an M100 bashing club now), we just don't have an interest in them. What are you going to do force us to be interested in them?

Originally Posted by Elanlover

At not time have you ever tried to do this. Your idea of "closing the loop" is getting the last snide remark in. That's not closing the loop my freind. That's perpetuating it.....

I've simply never seen anyone fight so hard to be wrong....

All I did was stop the door from closing by adding a post. You kept charging through the open doorway and had to get the last word in. Every time. I just need to post here and you'll respond beause you have to get the last word in. And that's not closing anything.

All these same things can be said about you, never mind the things in the middle where you obviously started with the personal attacks, hey I admit I responded right back, why not? I stopped with my retaliatory attacks, but then you and your toadies started back up again, so hey I tried, but I'm not just going to sit idly by.

Now the part in bold..... "I just need to post here and you'll respond beause you have to get the last word in."

Since you're soo clear on all this let's see if you can walk the talk you just gave... let's see you not make another post just so you can prove that you don't have to get the last word in.

I'm betting against you BTW and expect a post shortly I'm off to a party now! Have fun trying to keep yourself from making a post and being a hypocrite.

[dapinky]

For 'low powered' i actually meant the Datsun 280Z - unless its had some magic transformation (even if only in your world).

As for 'scoring a goal' It is a footballing term (Soccer to you, as football is like a bastardised form of Rugby, but with cheerleaders, beer, popcorn and hot dogs - Hey, that DOES sound good!)

Gee, dad, thanks for the cookie & pat on the head, it really makes me feel valued in the alternative world you habituate.

If you want to read my memoirs, save up your pocket money, go into Waterstones and specifically ask for a title called "I'm a self-opinionated bigot with no respect for fellow human beings" - but say it in a loud voice for all to hear!

Hey, I've had enough of quoting Oscar Wilde, lets try some Shakespeare....

"Good bye, oh perfect rose, I fear we shall never cross our ways again...."

[Westrock]

Originally Posted by PhlypSide

After a few days at the other thread, it would appear that the overwhelming majority of folks here wouldn't have bought their Elise/Exige if it were somehow a FWD car (I think this is indicative of what happened to the M100):

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32285

89.90% so far say nope, wouldn't buy a Lotus today if it were FWD.

I think a better question would have been this. I think either the Corolla or the Matrix had a quasi-AWD option. Now if Lotus had been able to stuff a AWD system in the Elise with the 2ZZ and it only added maybe 100 pounds and be maybe a 30/70 split (rearward baised, and understandable for a lightweight AWD system). And had they been able to do that as a $3000 option (meaning the "sportscar" layout costs less), would poeple have spent the extra money?

Do you think the Elise/Exige would be better performing with a simple AWD layout instead of the RWD layout?

[babak]

Knock it off.

Things were going so well for a while. I really want to continue looking at this as a lively discussion over a couple brews about something we all feel passionate about. But the resurgence of commentary is diverting this thread from that aim.

[Geordie]

Originally Posted by PhlypSide

If it wasn't obvious I was having fun with the "eleventy"

You don't say!

[AV8NDOC]

Originally Posted by PhlypSide

Oh the Forester isn't a sportscar it's just faster than your pre-Kia

obviously you were coming off a crack high I assume

faster to the junkyard -- definitely !!

[Westrock]

Hey now, don't knock wagons. There are some very potent wagons out there. Mostly the Subaru's and Audi Avants.

Now I would definently not call a wagon/estate of any kind a sports car, but that doesn't keep them from being great performers.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by PhlypSide

So when are selling your RWD car for a FWD one? Since they're exactly the same? At least walk the walk

No way I am selling my RWD goodies for those fwd dummies!

[Geordie]

Well there doesn't seem to be many more votes now. How about you close the poll and declare the result Phil?

[PhlypSide]

Originally Posted by AV8NDOC

obviously you were coming off a crack high I assume

faster to the junkyard -- definitely !!

Wow, that's a friend of mine's car, and I'm well aware of what it can do. It's put down in excess of 350HP to the wheels (this is on an old tune, it's gone up since then). It has an uprated suspension and huge brakes.

That must be one fast M100 you've got there.

[babak]

For the third time:
Knock it off.
http://www.elisetalk.com/rules.htm

[peck555]

Hell no

[AV8NDOC]

Originally Posted by PhlypSide

Wow, that's a friend of mine's car, and I'm well aware of what it can do. It's put down in excess of 350HP to the wheels (this is on an old tune, it's gone up since then). It has an uprated suspension and huge brakes.

That must be one fast M100 you've got there.

so now you are saying that a subaru can be modded to increase HP but an Elan can't? Now are you saying that HP makes a sportscar??

Just what are you saying, Ty??

And YES we do have Elans that can put 400+ HP to the dyno -- an engine is an engine and any can be modded . . .

and yes a stock Elan is faster than a stock Forrester -- and that is what I was saying

[PhlypSide]

Doug? Power does not a sportscar make, and I never made the claim that the Forester was a sportscar, so please stop jumping to conclusions.

Furthermore, I don't appreciate your continued personal attacks.

BTW, the claim that a stock M100 Elan is faster than a stock Forester? Which Elan and Which Forester? Are you sure a stock Elan is faster than a stock Forester XT, like the one pictured? How is it faster? 0-60MPH? 1/4 Mile? I don't think it's faster on either count.

Anyhow thanks for playing, and no thanks for all the personal attacks on people that aren't even on this board. Amazing.

[AV8NDOC]

Originally Posted by PhlypSide

Furthermore, I don't appreciate your continued personal attacks.
. . . and no thanks for all the personal attacks on people that aren't even on this board. Amazing.

Originally Posted by PhlypSide

Oh the Forester isn't a sportscar it's just faster than your pre-Kia

um, I'd say YOU instigated it by a 'personal attack' on ElanLover

I was just setting you straight that YOU ARE WRONG in that statement -- problem is you only read between lines and DO NOT even see the text I guess!

And yes, I believe a stock Elan is in ALL WAYS faster than a stock Forrester -- except in depreciation and to the junkyard

[AV8NDOC]

Yo,

just for fun and EDUCATION (I'm sure Costas wouldn't mind -- and he'd be glad to discuss his car with anyone)

Here's an Elan with 362hp (no NOS) and 437hp with NOS



here's the 362HP dyno run too -- and he has upgraded the car since then too.

http://www.sh4rk.gr/Dynorun02.wmv



I'll look for his Elan drifting video for you too . . .

[PhlypSide]

[OFF TOPIC]

Originally Posted by AV8NDOC

um, I'd say YOU instigated it by a 'personal attack' on ElanLover

Nope, wrong again, I only retorted to his initial personal attacks. BTW, why are you coming to his aid, is he your ward or in some other way in your care?

Originally Posted by AV8NDOC

I was just setting you straight that YOU ARE WRONG in that statement -- problem is you only read between lines and DO NOT even see the text I guess!

And yes, I believe a stock Elan is in ALL WAYS faster than a stock Forrester -- except in depreciation and to the junkyard

Where are your stats that any stock Elan is faster than a stock Forester XT (like the one pictured?)???[/OFF TOPIC]

[Stephen]

WOW, that is a nice car!

Why are you guys even fighting over this? Every man (or woman) can have their own definition of what makes a sports car. You are both right in my little simple minded opinion.