Is there such a thing as a FWD (front-wheel drive) sportscar?

[Geordie]

Originally Posted by LotusElanM100

It is obvious that you have no training is data analysis or you would not be surprised by the reason why people pick the answers they do. I was only explaining some of the reasons why the poll is not valid and is meaningless, you could never truly look at the results of this poll as meaning anything nor could you use the results of this poll to make or argue some kind of point about FWD cars being sports cars unless you were an idiot. My attempt was only to show that there are to many "no" choices for people taking a poll on a yes or no question, people will think one of the choices has to be more neutral than the other choices or else why would their be three? People can also be confused by the "tone" of the choices if the choices are designed to create an emotional responce.

Do I believe that some people would or may have voted "No" only because they felt that "H#ll no!" was to strong of a choice, YES! I study data all day long and know this happens in poorly designed polls. Many people may not be sure about the choice "Yes" so they may selected choice "No" as neutral once they are totaly confused by choice "H#ll no!", you can not argue this fact because you do not know the emotional state of the person taking the poll and at the same time the survey is so poorly designed that the results are still not valid. To argue any differently shows a complete lake of experience designing and understanding polls and data collecting.

Now, you try to say I am delusional only because I pointed out the problems with the poll? Wrong! I can not explain why people voted the way they voted in this poll no more than you can, but I can pointed out the reasons why the poll is total egregious and is not meaningful in any way, I have only stated that people can be (and some will be) confused by having two choices for "No" and one choice for "Yes" with a YES/NO survey and this is why the poll is meaningless and laughable.

Excellent post. Thank you for bringing a bit of science to the table. The fact that the poll can be conveniently interpreted to "prove" opposing points of view demonstrates that it has not been carefully constructed and cannot be used to "prove" anything - as I said earlier, I can't help it, if it is crap.

There have obviously been a few M100 devotees (myself included) who have been drawn to the debate which has undoubtedly increased the yes vote. I suspect that a few not-front-wheel-drive-at-any-cost votes have been cast recently as the poll total was static for a long time, until I pointed out that the yes vote was in front then a dozen or so Hell-no votes appeared.

Another aspect, of course, is that there is no provision to change ones mind after reading the debate - for example, how many people did not know of the M100, a FWD sportscar from the Lotus stable which this forum is meant to represent [not just Elise, despite the name] and would vote differently given the choice. Conversely, I might have changed my mind about my car, realising that it is not trully a sportscar.

It would be interesting to see the outcome of a straight Yes/No poll together with a short statement by e.g. Elanlover and Phlypside for and against.

[smoseley]

Originally Posted by LotusElanM100

Do I believe that some people would or may have voted "No" only because they felt that "H#ll no!" was to strong of a choice, YES! I study data all day long and know this happens in poorly designed polls. Many people may not be sure about the choice "Yes" so they may selected choice "No" as neutral once they are totaly confused by choice "H#ll no!", you can not argue this fact because you do not know the emotional state of the person taking the poll and at the same time the survey is so poorly designed that the results are still not valid. To argue any differently shows a complete lake of experience designing and understanding polls and data collecting.

I'm going to support you on this, because I voted "No." In fact, at the time I voted, I implied that the reason I voted "No" was because I believed the m100 was a FWD sportscar, but that I didn't believe FWD made for a good sportscar platform. Therefore, I suppose I voted "No" in a way trying to say, "Yes, there IS a FWD sportscar, even though there SHOULDN'T BE!!!"

[babak]

Originally Posted by Geordie

It would be interesting to see the outcome of a straight Yes/No poll together with a short statement by e.g. Elanlover and Phlypside for and against.

That can be arranged.

[LotusElanM100]

Here is my olive branch.

I would be the first to say there are very few sport cars that are front wheel drive BUT this thread was "Is there such a thing as a FWD (font-wheels drive) sportscar? The answer (regardless of your feeling) is without question YES! The Lotus Elan M100 is a FWD sports car.

Now if you want to argue about what is better (front wheel or rear wheel drive) than that is a good discussion that is not as insulting as saying that the M100 is not a sport scar. But to say that the Lotus Elan M100 is not a sports car is a total insult to all us Lotus M100 owners and it is also an insult to Lotus itself to being innovating and building one of the most unique sportcars ever, please give Lotus credit for this great sportscar and try to be proud of the Lotus heritage. Do not just drive a car because it looks "cool", understand the car and the company that makes it unique. Please stop disrespecting the Elan M100 and remember we are all brothers here. Regardless of your feelings within this heated discussion you can not deny the fact the Lotus M100 is one of the best true sportscars ever. I love the Elise, it is fun to drive, but I have had two M100 and many other "true" sportscars but the Elan M100 is my favorite of all sportscars, to me, it is the most fun car I have ever driven regardless of being FWD. Those that argue that a front will drive car can not be a sportscar do not know about the M100 and those that continue to argue the point are just being disrespectful to Lotus and our entire Lotus community.

I would suggest that because of the bad blood this thread (topic) has cause that this thread should be removed. We are all Lotus fans here and this thread has cause many hard feelings. I saw a fellow in an Elise the other day and said to myself "what an as*", now, why did I say that to myself? I said that because I was thinking about this thread and some of the comments that were made. I am starting to have bad feelings for Elise owners all because of a select few that have poisoned this thread with insults and narrow minded thinking. I do not want to think about my brother (Elise owners) in this way any more, remove this thread and let put this behind us.

[LotusElanM100]

Originally Posted by transio

I'm going to support you on this, because I voted "No." In fact, at the time I voted, I implied that the reason I voted "No" was because I believed the m100 was a FWD sportscar, but that I didn't believe FWD made for a good sportscar platform. Therefore, I suppose I voted "No" in a way trying to say, "Yes, there IS a FWD sportscar, even though there SHOULDN'T BE!!!"

[Longtimelotusfan]

My sentiments entirely. Lotus build sports cars, they bucked the preconceptions of many when they produced a sports car that was FWD. This was at a time when almost without exception all 'traditional' sportscars were shown a clean exhaust on the straight and through the twisties by the first and second generation of 'hot hatches' all of which were FWD but which I wouldn't consider as sportscars although they were clearly 'sporting cars'. I would be amongst the first to state that in a high performance vehicle (performance alone does not not necessarily define a sportscar) there are some limitations in the FWD layout which must be overcome if handling, balance and controllability are not to be compromised. Lotus as a company who truly understand what constitutes a sportscar set themselves a challenge to overcome these limitations and within the design boundaries they set themselves (size, packaging, power to weight etc) they succeeded magnificently. The M100 delivers a driving experience that few other cars can match and in my view it alone redefined the meaning of sportscar and leaves no option but to accept that such a thing as a FWD sportscars exists. The driving experience is different to that of my 1968 Elan but the overall performance is immeasurably superior as you might reasonably expect from a car that is over 20 years newer. Performance is an objective measurement, enjoyment is subjective and I couldn't say whether an M100 or a 'baby' elan is most enjoyable. What I do know with certainty though is that in the road conditions I experience every day the M100 (20k miles in the last 12 months) is the more relevant experience, and that's without a turbo. The one with a turbo is reserved for passing RWD cars on wet tracks! (Apart from an Exige S well driven by the Chairman of Club Lotus).

[mini63]

Originally Posted by LotusElanM100

The Lotus Elan M100 is a FWD sports car.

Agree 100%...and I've said as much for quite some time now. True. The M100 is a FWD sports car.

Originally Posted by LotusElanM100

Regardless of your feelings within this heated discussion you can not deny the fact the Lotus M100 is one of the best true sportscars ever.

The Lotus Elan M100 is a great car and a great sports car but the contention that "the Lotus M100 is one of the best true sportscars ever" is not a fact. That is your opinion.

I'm not attacking anyone or being disrespectful and I hope that I am not censored by stating this.

[Geordie]

Originally Posted by mini63

....I hope that I am not censored by stating this.

I don't see why you should be Chris. Seems like a perfectly reasonable statement to me.

[babak]

Originally Posted by mini63

I'm not attacking anyone or being disrespectful and I hope that I am not censored by stating this.

It's not implied that you are attacking and why would you be censored? This is the kind of discourse that I've been trying to get us to.

[LotusElanM100]

Originally Posted by mini63

The Lotus Elan M100 is a great car and a great sports car but the contention that "the Lotus M100 is one of the best true sportscars ever" is not a fact. That is your opinion.

True, that is my personal passion and feelings for the M100 coming out.

BUT, some may say the same about the Elise and I would have to remind them the same (that is your opinion)

The last line is only ment in fun, not personal, I like the Elise

[mini63]

Originally Posted by LotusElanM100

True, that is my personal passion and feelings for the M100 coming out.

BUT, some may say the same about the Elise and I would have to remind them the same (that is your opinion)

The last line is only ment in fun, not personal, I like the Elise

I would say from everything that I've learned from this thread that the M100 and the Elise are both wonderful sports cars and would have to say that the M100 was/is the more innovative of the two, without question.

I'm not sure if either falls into the category of "best ever" but would have to say that they are both awesome Lotuses, without a doubt.

[mini63]

Originally Posted by babak

It's not implied that you are attacking and why would you be censored? This is the kind of discourse that I've been trying to get us to.

Great! I just wasn't sure if I went a little overboard on some of my other posts...

[smoseley]

Originally Posted by LotusElanM100

BUT, some may say the same about the Elise and I would have to remind them the same (that is your opinion)

... AND the opinion of many race car drivers, engineers, car designers, and automotive writers the world over. So in the case of the Elise, it's an "opinion" with the consensus of the generally accepted experts on the subject.

[mini63]

Originally Posted by Geordie

I don't see why you should be Chris. Seems like a perfectly reasonable statement to me.

Thanks for reading through all of my blathering. As I stated earlier, I've definitely taken something from this thread - I really wasn't that familiar with the M100 before I got involved. If I ever see one in the flesh, I'll definitely have more appreciation for it.

Great avatar, by the way. It looks awesome from that angle.

[AV8NDOC]

how's this angle then?



or these

[babak]

Originally Posted by mini63

Great! I just wasn't sure if I went a little overboard on some of my other posts...

tabula rasa

[babak]

Noobie question here. How is it to live with the M100? How hard is service? Parts availability? Quality? Quality of the top and durability of the rear window?

[StripeyBRG]

Going strong since 1991

Daily driver...





Elise is a great car, so as the M100. Lotus' principles are all over their car blueprints.

[Geordie]

Originally Posted by mini63

Thanks for reading through all of my blathering. As I stated earlier, I've definitely taken something from this thread - I really wasn't that familiar with the M100 before I got involved. If I ever see one in the flesh, I'll definitely have more appreciation for it.

Great avatar, by the way. It looks awesome from that angle.

Thanks Chris. It's just a shame we have to have a licence plate on the front in the UK - it looks even better without.

It's good to know that at least one person has taken something positive out of this. We do tend to be rather passionate about our choice of car, probably because a large proportion have made a carefully considered decision about the M100 and we can get a bit fed up with some of the stereotypical jibes that you hear from time to time. We also tend to be quite passionate about the Lotus marque in general, so go and check out some of the history and the truly innovative cars that Lotus have been making from other people's spare parts for almost 60 years.

If you're ever in the UK, make sure you look us up.

[lotuscar]

I have a M100 Elan and an Elise. They are BOTH great sport cars!