Is there such a thing as a FWD (front-wheel drive) sportscar?

[Toad]

Noobie question here. How is it to live with the M100? How hard is service? Parts availability? Quality? Quality of the top and durability of the rear window?

How hard is service? Some aspects not too bad, others it is an absolute PITA. For instance,check out the engine bay; the oil filter resides at the back of the bottom part of the engine underneath the intake plenum. And changing the transmission fluid wtf where they thinking? In fact many of the components reside between the back of the engine and the firewall. Replacing components of the AC to the brake servo requires removing the dash and center console. One mechanic said it was the most complicated car he had ever worked on. Working on an Elise is a piece of cake compared to the M100.

Parts availability? Most of the internals can be sourced thru Dave Bean. A lot of the components are from various GM parts bins around the world, and cost a fraction of what Lotus charges. Most of the later era Esprit's all the way to the V8 have the same steering wheel as the M100, which I believe is the same as a Pontiac Firebird. A lot of the switch gear comes from Vauxhall; inf act it looks like some of components in the Elise are the same ones used in the M100.Trim pieces on the other hand are almost impossible to find.

Like Lotuscar, I have both and love them to death.

[markv]

Originally Posted by PhlypSide

Here is my takeaway "refinement" of what the characteristics of a sportscar are:

1) A distinct car. Not merely a trim-level difference from other cars (e.g. Honda Integras)
2) Seats 2
3) RWD or AWD

Lets take out the bias and emotion from this discussion and look at the facts. Surely the definition of a "sports car" should relate to the actual driving experience. Many M100 owners have had experience of driving both the M100 and RWD sports cars, and in their opinion the M100 experience matches or exceeds that of RWD sports cars. To state that the M100 is not a sports car simply because it is FWD is a circular argument which invalidates the whole poll. Can Front-wheel Drive cars be sports cars? Yes, because many people who have experience of both RWD and FWD are quite clear that this is so.

[mini63]

Originally Posted by Geordie

Thanks Chris. It's just a shame we have to have a licence plate on the front in the UK - it looks even better without.

It's good to know that at least one person has taken something positive out of this. We do tend to be rather passionate about our choice of car, probably because a large proportion have made a carefully considered decision about the M100 and we can get a bit fed up with some of the stereotypical jibes that you hear from time to time. We also tend to be quite passionate about the Lotus marque in general, so go and check out some of the history and the truly innovative cars that Lotus have been making from other people's spare parts for almost 60 years.

If you're ever in the UK, make sure you look us up.

I don't know. I happen to think that your (UK's) license plates looks quite nice - especially when compared to the heinous US plates.

I'm a Mini guy (Mark I's to be exact - from around 1959 to 1966) and was a Porsche guy until they built that POS SUV. I've always had an appreciation for Lotus but became really interested when the S1 Elise was introduced back in 1996. I'm not a total noob when it comes to Lotus history...honestly...I just know very little about the M100...but all the photos that people have posted are really enticing, to say the least. I'm becoming quite a fan.

Thank you! I just returned from Europe in September. I didn't make it to England but will one of these days...and I'll be sure to look you guys up.

[babak]

Archived the non relevant posts all around for those who are wondering what happened to them.

[LotusElanM100]

Originally Posted by transio

... AND the opinion of many race car drivers, engineers, car designers, and automotive writers the world over. So in the case of the Elise, it's an "opinion" with the consensus of the generally accepted experts on the subject.

And the same can be said about the Elan, durring its time the Elan received the same comments from writers, designers, engineers, and drivers as with the Elise of today, so I guess the same can also be said about the Elan, it's an "opinion" with the consensus of the generally accepted experts

Finally we agree and now we have come to see that both cars are sports cars as accepted by experts. Good thing I saved all those old Car & Driver, Road & Track, magazines, they help prove this point

[JLSELISE]

Originally Posted by brgm100

How hard is service? Some aspects not too bad, others it is an absolute PITA. For instance,check out the engine bay; the oil filter resides at the back of the bottom part of the engine underneath the intake plenum. And changing the transmission fluid wtf where they thinking? In fact many of the components reside between the back of the engine and the firewall. Replacing components of the AC to the brake servo requires removing the dash and center console. One mechanic said it was the most complicated car he had ever worked on. Working on an Elise is a piece of cake compared to the M100.

Parts availability? Most of the internals can be sourced thru Dave Bean. A lot of the components are from various GM parts bins around the world, and cost a fraction of what Lotus charges. Most of the later era Esprit's all the way to the V8 have the same steering wheel as the M100, which I believe is the same as a Pontiac Firebird. A lot of the switch gear comes from Vauxhall; inf act it looks like some of components in the Elise are the same ones used in the M100.Trim pieces on the other hand are almost impossible to find.

Like Lotuscar, I have both and love them to death.

And for the ultimate in trivia knowledge--the windscreen on the M100 is the same as on the Noble M12/M400--but that doesn't mean they are easy to find .

[Toad]

Funny that you mentioned that Joel; I was talking to the owner of the Noble in the paddock area at TWS (see this thread)

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31082

I mentioned this tidbit of trivia to him as well. He seemed quite elated. I guess he thought they would be easy to come by.

Another bit of trivia-I believe the turn signals on the M100 were used in that other Stevens car-The Macca F1?

[Longtimelotusfan]

Originally Posted by brgm100

Funny that you mentioned that Joel; I was talking to the owner of the Noble in the paddock area at TWS (see this thread)

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31082

I mentioned this tidbit of trivia to him as well. He seemed quite elated. I guess he thought they would be easy to come by.

Another bit of trivia-I believe the turn signals on the M100 were used in that other Stevens car-The Macca F1?

Quite right the M100 front indicator/sidelight assembly is the same as an F1. Screens are relatively easy to source in the UK (I had one replaced earlier this year) through the ususal franchised or chain windscreen repair/replacement companies. However, fitting the screen is not the easiest of jobs and a number of owners have had a bad experience with non specialist screen fitters.

[dapinky]

Originally Posted by lotuscar

I have a M100 Elan and an Elise. They are BOTH great sport cars!

(Even though you also have a TR8 & MGB )

No, I'll delete that in case I become the first martyr for the cause & get banned from here - It's intended as a British joke - anyone on here who knows me will tell you that Triumph cars are in my blood (like Lotuses) and MGB's {GT and roadster} are generally accepted as a GREAT sportcar [not fast, low power, 2 or 4 seats, poor roadholding] hang on, some on here would argue that it's not a sportscar at all, but i think it deserves a place on the list, just for the amount of smiles driving one will bring!

[dapinky]

I've just had an e-mail back from Mr. Kimberley, and I'll leave the FINAL word from him.

Goodbye

“Hi Dave,

Good to hear from you again, although it’s a pity that it’s only when you want my opinion on something which is obvious.

Do you think I’d have wasted my time building the M100 if it wasn’t a sportscar?

Of course it is, you tw@t!

Back then I was trying to rescue the company and keep it in English hands, and the whole board thought that this was a design coup. No-one else had done it before, or since, and I’d like to have another go as soon as finance allows.

Hope this settles the meaningless debate,

Mike K.

P.S. – what colour do you want your Europa in?”

[Geordie]

Originally Posted by dapinky

I've just had an e-mail back from Mr. Kimberley, and I'll leave the FINAL word from him.

Goodbye

“Hi Dave,

Good to hear from you again, although it’s a pity that it’s only when you want my opinion on something which is obvious.

Do you think I’d have wasted my time building the M100 if it wasn’t a sportscar?

Of course it is, you tw@t!

Back then I was trying to rescue the company and keep it in English hands, and the whole board thought that this was a design coup. No-one else had done it before, or since, and I’d like to have another go as soon as finance allows.

Hope this settles the meaningless debate,

Mike K.

P.S. – what colour do you want your Europa in?”

Q.E.D.

[PhlypSide]

I still think the M100 posse should have their own thread

dapinky: that email is a bit urhmmm.... "suspect"

[AV8NDOC]

I don't think he will give you Mikey's email to prove it, but I might bet if you give him your email Mikey will send you some "education"

[LotusElanM100]

Finaly, the proof has been given to end this discussion, the Elan M100 is a FWD sports car. Sorry PhlypSide, your thread is now done, complete, and over, the final answer:

YES, a front will drive car can be a sports car:

Here is the proof: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_car

notice even the picture of the Lotus ELan M100

[Longtimelotusfan]

Originally Posted by PhlypSide

I still think the M100 posse should have their own thread

dapinky: that email is a bit urhmmm.... "suspect"

It appears they have, thanks .

A lot of people are now better informed about another great Lotus, whether it's your choice is entirely a matter of personal preference and I defend your right to choose. Lotus have broken the mould many times and I for one hope they continue to do so.

Suspect it's from the heart!

[AV8NDOC]

Originally Posted by LotusElanM100

Finaly, the proof has been given to end this discussion, the Elan M100 is a FWD sports car. Sorry PhlypSide, your thread is now done, complete, and over, the final answer:

YES, a front will drive car can be a sports car:

Here is the proof: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_car

notice even the picture of the Lotus Elan M100

[PhlypSide]

Originally Posted by LotusElanM100

Finaly, the proof has been given to end this discussion, the Elan M100 is a FWD sports car. Sorry PhlypSide, your thread is now done, complete, and over, the final answer:

YES, a front will drive car can be a sports car:

Here is the proof: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_car

notice even the picture of the Lotus ELan M100

Ahhh but I didn't ask the contributors of Wikipedia--the "final" answer here is NO, and in some instances HELL NO

If the mods changed the title to "In general, is there such a thing as a FWD (front-wheel drive) sportscar?" would that make you M100 guys happy?

[PhlypSide]

Originally Posted by AV8NDOC

I don't think he will give you Mikey's email to prove it, but I might bet if you give him your email Mikey will send you some "education"

Sure, my email address is FWD4GROCERIES@NOTFWD.COM

[PhlypSide]

Originally Posted by Longtimelotusfan

It appears they have, thanks .

A lot of people are now better informed about another great Lotus, whether it's your choice is entirely a matter of personal preference and I defend your right to choose. Lotus have broken the mould many times and I for one hope they continue to do so.

Suspect it's from the heart!

Hey I'm not saying that the M100 is not a Lotus and not a worthy one at that, but I (and many other sportscar drivers and fans alike) don't think FWD is a sportscar characteristic.

Is the M100 a great car? For some I guess so, it's got a lot of passionate (sometimes overzealous) supporters.

You guys just have to be more careful though, if your car is soo great it shouldn't need so much "horn tooting".

[AV8NDOC]

dude, you're just clinging to whatever hope you can (and trying yet again to be an ass and stir the pot)

we're just here saying that the Lotus Elan M100 is a sports car and is FWD. Period. That's what we came to this thread for.



yes, no one is making FWD sportscars NOW, but it could happen again.

I still think you miss the fact of science, that the power goes to the ground thru the drive wheels, whether it be one or four or front or rear. I think your problem is you think just because econoboxes have made you believe FWD cars can't handle well that you thus assume it is a characteristic of FWD. Well, it is a characteristic of the weight distribution and the suspension set-up, which Lotus proved can be tuned to create a capable sportscar. The fact no one else wants to spend a fortune on "developing" their own FWD sportscar and then try to reverse their marketing ploys is their choice!!