Is there such a thing as a FWD (front-wheel drive) sportscar? - Page 30 - LotusTalk

Bavarian Motorist · 12-03-2007, 06:25 AM

I think so. It may not be ideal for a sports car, but then, it's not ideal for a large luxury boat like a Mercedes SL either.

It depends what the car is intended for. IMO, the M100 and Mini Cooper S are sports cars because of their performance potential and because they were designed to be able to perform.

Hey, the Civic SI is even listed as an "afforable sports car" on www.edmunds.com

55mini · 10-09-2008, 06:22 PM

Wow, glad I was so late to find this thread and cast my vote. The vote was yes, as I am a former M100 owner and can tell you from experience in both the Elise and M100 both are very much sports cars. Each very different from the other. I sold my M100 to buy the Elise and still miss the M100. I also regularly drive an early S2 Elan. All of these are wonderful sports cars and all very different animals.

Mark

I should add a little about a few other fun to drive fwd which mat not be sports car class. My wife drives a Mini S and we have several early original mini's. Yes not in the class of sports car's but I would bet if you road in our 78 mini which is fully tweeked you would speak differently toward it not being a sports car with good handling. Try a 90 street corner at full throttle at 50-60 mph, then stop to clean out your shorts!

cabc26b · 10-12-2008, 12:05 PM

I have to agree with Mark ,

Back when the earth had not yet cooled I had a 1071 Cooper S with the solid suspension worked the way dave vizard recommended - any way that was the only car I could drive flat out all the way up and down talcot mountain on the way to LRP - and until the M100 was my benchmark for a FWD car -

G

Noisycow · 10-12-2008, 12:13 PM

smoseley · 10-12-2008, 06:56 PM

0-60 in 11.3 seconds.

Good looking car though.

BTW, I saw an M100 the other night with Elise taillights molded in. It looked pretty cool!!!

SAHD · 10-12-2008, 07:13 PM

Only when I drive my car backwards.

Hawk · 10-22-2008, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noisycow

Heh, I had one of those and the earlier one. Sportcars they were not. But fun they were.

geezer · 10-22-2008, 04:54 PM

Damn.. that's some interesting logic/copy in that Saab piece.

6_speed · 10-22-2008, 05:25 PM

Saab Sonett marketing BS.

Now it makes complete sense to me - same as GM's BS

They were destined to be soulmates decades ago and just recently consummated.

shay2nak · 10-26-2008, 06:51 PM

acura tsx is not a bad handler.

Jinrai · 08-06-2009, 09:20 PM

The SAAB Sonnets (1966-1974) were Front Wheel Drive sports cars. Two-seater, monocoque chassis, fiberglass and yes, like all SAABs of the era, FWD (with freewheel, too).
I have had a 1971 SAAB Sonnet III for 33 years. With a 60/40 weight ration it's a far cry from my '67 Elan (but then again, what isn't). It is a great road rally car but a cone-cruncher in autocross.

fpitas · 08-10-2009, 06:41 AM

So has this been decided yet? I worry about it every time I drive the Integra.

ErictheBastard · 08-10-2009, 08:15 AM

Okay, I haven't read all 11 pages of this thread, but NO, YOUR ACURA INTEGRA IS NOT A SPORTS CAR

The NSX is NOT a sports car - who ever heard of a sports car that you could drive everyday, free of idiosyncrasies and senseless maladies?

Sports cars have two seats (or one) - this eliminates dumb Detroit iron like the Mustang and Camaro. The Corvette and Viper are sports cars, albeit fat ones. Sports cars have tops that come off, or at least the option of coming off and that rule applies except when it doesn't as in such cases as the Ferrari 250GTO. Not all Ferraris are sports cars - 250GTE, 456A, 612, etc...

The Mini is NOT a sports car - it is an economy car that benefited from adding lightness. I'm referring of course to the original Mini, not that new delivery van that my wife drives.

The Prius can be converted to a sports car - simply chop the roof, rip out the back seat to install a 454 with a blower and open pipes and toodle on down the road to the next Al Gore rally.

The Solstice and the Aura? Would putting cross trainers and a skimpy tank top on Rosie O'Donnell make her an athlete? Let's not find out.

The Cadillac XLR? Just because it was designed by a sixth grader in study hall as a 'sports concept vehicle' doesnt make it so. Besides the transversely mid mounted, twin-turbo 12-liter V16 from the original drawing never made it to production.

Subaru STi and Mitsubishi EVO??? Sports cars? Those are rally cars - what the hell is wrong with you stupid kids these days??

Working our way down the food chain near the bottom where the fartcan equipped Civics dwell; Well, enough said.

PhlypSide · 08-10-2009, 08:22 AM

^^^^ Nice. I do feel bad that this thread was placed in the Elan forum though.... the classic Elans are clearly sportscars....

fpitas · 08-10-2009, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErictheBastard

Okay, I haven't read all 11 pages of this thread, but NO, YOUR ACURA INTEGRA IS NOT A SPORTS CAR

The NSX is NOT a sports car - who ever heard of a sports car that you could drive everyday, free of idiosyncrasies and senseless maladies?

Sports cars have two seats (or one) - this eliminates dumb Detroit iron like the Mustang and Camaro. The Corvette and Viper are sports cars, albeit fat ones. Sports cars have tops that come off, or at least the option of coming off and that rule applies except when it doesn't as in such cases as the Ferrari 250GTO. Not all Ferraris are sports cars - 250GTE, 456A, 612, etc...

The Mini is NOT a sports car - it is an economy car that benefited from adding lightness. I'm referring of course to the original Mini, not that new delivery van that my wife drives.

The Prius can be converted to a sports car - simply chop the roof, rip out the back seat to install a 454 with a blower and open pipes and toodle on down the road to the next Al Gore rally.

The Solstice and the Aura? Would putting cross trainers and a skimpy tank top on Rosie O'Donnell make her an athlete? Let's not find out.

The Cadillac XLR? Just because it was designed by a sixth grader in study hall as a 'sports concept vehicle' doesnt make it so. Besides the transversely mid mounted, twin-turbo 12-liter V16 from the original drawing never made it to production.

Subaru STi and Mitsubishi EVO??? Sports cars? Those are rally cars - what the hell is wrong with you stupid kids these days??

Working our way down the food chain near the bottom where the fartcan equipped Civics dwell; Well, enough said.

Sheesh, I was joking, but now I'm crushed

Why do you guys care, anyway?

...m... · 08-10-2009, 12:20 PM

...eric, if you can't accept the Z0K solstice as a sportscar, you clearly haven't fairly evaluated it...likewise, the NSX was available as a targa, and is as much a sportscar as anything this side of a dedicated track machine...

DeanG · 08-10-2009, 03:40 PM

I care because I believe.

The M100 a sports car? I think so, at least in the broad sense; and not so broad that it includes mustangs or anything made by Japan in the last 30 years except the Miaita.

The M100 qualifies as a GT though. It has many of the characteristics of the Esprit and Elan +2.

The trouble is that people relate sports car to goodness. It is just a classification, not a judgment.

Shades · 08-10-2009, 04:32 PM

I also own a 91 Cadillac Allante, which was totally promoted during it's heyday as Cadillac's sports car answer to the Corvette. In remembering some of the literature from the time, I think that they actually used terms like "exceptional Sports Car handling" and "performance to rival the Corvette".

Now, as it was a front wheel drive car, I can tell you that power-on driving in corners is definitely very brisk, but in truth, apart from the pretty Pininfarina body, and the EXACT SAME fuel rail used in the Esprit S4, nothing else about it says to me "Sports Car" The driving feel is heavy, and the car feels like it's swimming THROUGH the road, against a turbulent current (once again the result of having power-on and power-off steering characteristics) Also, despite having "280 horsepower" the weight of the car combined with the lousy automatic transmission make it feel like I'm driving a peppy toyota camry.

Cadillac was (in my opinion) dumb to make that car a front wheel drive when there was so much room to keep it to the original specs which called out for a RWD car, which was changed to "lighten" the overall weight of the car... probably what killed sales after only a 5 year run...........

Paul
(951)206-9156
94S4 (needing a 2nd gear, if any of you have one for sale)
85TE

simon_komo · 08-10-2009, 05:26 PM

how about the new focus RS and Renault Megane R26R, suppose to be the benchmark in FWD technology

...m... · 08-10-2009, 05:52 PM

...they might perform exceptionally well, but the surely don't meet the classic definition of a sportscar...

View Poll Results: Can Front-wheel Drive cars be sportscars?
Yes	156	44.96%
No	70	20.17%
H#ll no!	121	34.87%
Voters: 347. You may not vote on this poll

12-03-2007, 06:25 AM	#581 (permalink)
Bavarian Motorist Live to Drive Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: NYC/Westchester, NY Posts: 10,852	I think so. It may not be ideal for a sports car, but then, it's not ideal for a large luxury boat like a Mercedes SL either. It depends what the car is intended for. IMO, the M100 and Mini Cooper S are sports cars because of their performance potential and because they were designed to be able to perform. Hey, the Civic SI is even listed as an "afforable sports car" on www.edmunds.com __________________ Be an alpha male. Drive a Lotus.

10-09-2008, 06:22 PM	#582 (permalink)
55mini Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mount Vernon, IOWA Posts: 32	Wow, glad I was so late to find this thread and cast my vote. The vote was yes, as I am a former M100 owner and can tell you from experience in both the Elise and M100 both are very much sports cars. Each very different from the other. I sold my M100 to buy the Elise and still miss the M100. I also regularly drive an early S2 Elan. All of these are wonderful sports cars and all very different animals. Mark I should add a little about a few other fun to drive fwd which mat not be sports car class. My wife drives a Mini S and we have several early original mini's. Yes not in the class of sports car's but I would bet if you road in our 78 mini which is fully tweeked you would speak differently toward it not being a sports car with good handling. Try a 90 street corner at full throttle at 50-60 mph, then stop to clean out your shorts! Last edited by 55mini : 10-09-2008 at 06:38 PM.

10-12-2008, 12:13 PM	#584 (permalink)
Noisycow Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,466	__________________ - - - - http://thecomingdepression.blogspot.com/ No longer the coming Depression, it is already here.

10-12-2008, 06:56 PM	#585 (permalink)
smoseley Bubble Boy Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 12,132 Images: 8	0-60 in 11.3 seconds. Good looking car though. BTW, I saw an M100 the other night with Elise taillights molded in. It looked pretty cool!!! __________________ - Steve Transio - Software Development & Web Design, Miami, FL

10-12-2008, 12:05 PM	#583 (permalink)
cabc26b Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 29	I have to agree with Mark , Back when the earth had not yet cooled I had a 1071 Cooper S with the solid suspension worked the way dave vizard recommended - any way that was the only car I could drive flat out all the way up and down talcot mountain on the way to LRP - and until the M100 was my benchmark for a FWD car - G

10-12-2008, 07:13 PM	#586 (permalink)
SAHD Brits Abroad Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: North NJ Posts: 18	Only when I drive my car backwards. __________________ 2007 Lotus Elise 72d 2006 Honda Odyssey E-XL 1989 Honda Civic 1.4 (LX!) ... Am I married with kids, or what?

10-22-2008, 04:54 PM	#588 (permalink)
geezer Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 526	Damn.. that's some interesting logic/copy in that Saab piece.

10-22-2008, 05:25 PM	#589 (permalink)
6_speed Highway Star Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 633	Saab Sonett marketing BS. Now it makes complete sense to me - same as GM's BS They were destined to be soulmates decades ago and just recently consummated.

10-26-2008, 06:51 PM	#590 (permalink)
shay2nak I <3 chicken, I <3 liver Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Land of da 1000 Oaks, CA Posts: 15,042	acura tsx is not a bad handler. __________________ save ~10 lbs gain 1 hp EQ: Y=(190X) / (1984-X) where Y is (HP) and X is (lbs) '07 EXIGE S * MY CAR ** VIDEOS! '08 ACURA TSX 6-speed http://www.makeNYNYagain.com

08-06-2009, 09:20 PM	#591 (permalink)
Jinrai '67 Elan S-3 SE Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Durham, NH Posts: 1	Absolutely ! The SAAB Sonnets (1966-1974) were Front Wheel Drive sports cars. Two-seater, monocoque chassis, fiberglass and yes, like all SAABs of the era, FWD (with freewheel, too). I have had a 1971 SAAB Sonnet III for 33 years. With a 60/40 weight ration it's a far cry from my '67 Elan (but then again, what isn't). It is a great road rally car but a cone-cruncher in autocross.

08-10-2009, 06:41 AM	#592 (permalink)
fpitas User, Registered Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Leesburg, VA Posts: 1,827	So has this been decided yet? I worry about it every time I drive the Integra. __________________ Francis 2006 Chrome Orange Elise: LSD/TC, Nitron SAs with 425/650 springs, BWR 7/8" Front Bar, Eliseparts bumpsteer kit, VF Stage 2, 2bular Header + Sport Cat + 8x24 GT3 Muffler, ECU Tune by Jermaine, Smaay's fuel rail, ACT XT clutch, Saikou Michi dual catch can, Moroso pan, Manly's mount inserts & FF Engine Damper 2000 Black Integra Type R: - 213,000 miles...running again!

08-10-2009, 08:15 AM	#593 (permalink)
ErictheBastard NOT the Stig Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 265 Images: 5	Okay, I haven't read all 11 pages of this thread, but NO, YOUR ACURA INTEGRA IS NOT A SPORTS CAR The NSX is NOT a sports car - who ever heard of a sports car that you could drive everyday, free of idiosyncrasies and senseless maladies? Sports cars have two seats (or one) - this eliminates dumb Detroit iron like the Mustang and Camaro. The Corvette and Viper are sports cars, albeit fat ones. Sports cars have tops that come off, or at least the option of coming off and that rule applies except when it doesn't as in such cases as the Ferrari 250GTO. Not all Ferraris are sports cars - 250GTE, 456A, 612, etc... The Mini is NOT a sports car - it is an economy car that benefited from adding lightness. I'm referring of course to the original Mini, not that new delivery van that my wife drives. The Prius can be converted to a sports car - simply chop the roof, rip out the back seat to install a 454 with a blower and open pipes and toodle on down the road to the next Al Gore rally. The Solstice and the Aura? Would putting cross trainers and a skimpy tank top on Rosie O'Donnell make her an athlete? Let's not find out. The Cadillac XLR? Just because it was designed by a sixth grader in study hall as a 'sports concept vehicle' doesnt make it so. Besides the transversely mid mounted, twin-turbo 12-liter V16 from the original drawing never made it to production. Subaru STi and Mitsubishi EVO??? Sports cars? Those are rally cars - what the hell is wrong with you stupid kids these days?? Working our way down the food chain near the bottom where the fartcan equipped Civics dwell; Well, enough said. __________________ Eric the Bastard, Esq. Sylmar, CA 2005 Buzzbomb Chrome Orange Larini SE Exhaust LETSLA shift kit

08-10-2009, 12:20 PM	#596 (permalink)
...m... Denuo Volatilis Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,715	...eric, if you can't accept the Z0K solstice as a sportscar, you clearly haven't fairly evaluated it...likewise, the NSX was available as a targa, and is as much a sportscar as anything this side of a dedicated track machine... __________________ 2005 Federal Elise \| Touring \| Storm Titanium ...73,000 miles and aging beautifully... 2000 New Beetle \| Turbo \| Reflex Silver ...107,000 miles of steadfast service...

08-10-2009, 03:40 PM	#597 (permalink)
DeanG Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 720	I care because I believe. The M100 a sports car? I think so, at least in the broad sense; and not so broad that it includes mustangs or anything made by Japan in the last 30 years except the Miaita. The M100 qualifies as a GT though. It has many of the characteristics of the Esprit and Elan +2. The trouble is that people relate sports car to goodness. It is just a classification, not a judgment.

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08-10-2009, 04:32 PM	#598 (permalink)
Shades Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: los angeles, ca Posts: 41	Good Grief, what a can or emotions :) I also own a 91 Cadillac Allante, which was totally promoted during it's heyday as Cadillac's sports car answer to the Corvette. In remembering some of the literature from the time, I think that they actually used terms like "exceptional Sports Car handling" and "performance to rival the Corvette". Now, as it was a front wheel drive car, I can tell you that power-on driving in corners is definitely very brisk, but in truth, apart from the pretty Pininfarina body, and the EXACT SAME fuel rail used in the Esprit S4, nothing else about it says to me "Sports Car" The driving feel is heavy, and the car feels like it's swimming THROUGH the road, against a turbulent current (once again the result of having power-on and power-off steering characteristics) Also, despite having "280 horsepower" the weight of the car combined with the lousy automatic transmission make it feel like I'm driving a peppy toyota camry. Cadillac was (in my opinion) dumb to make that car a front wheel drive when there was so much room to keep it to the original specs which called out for a RWD car, which was changed to "lighten" the overall weight of the car... probably what killed sales after only a 5 year run........... Paul (951)206-9156 94S4 (needing a 2nd gear, if any of you have one for sale) 85TE

08-10-2009, 05:26 PM	#599 (permalink)
simon_komo Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 108	how about the new focus RS and Renault Megane R26R, suppose to be the benchmark in FWD technology __________________ Krypton Green Exige with Komo-tec 280S Photo Gallery : http://s229.photobucket.com/albums/e...omo/?start=all Modification List : http://s229.photobucket.com/albums/e...SIMONLAU-1.jpg

08-10-2009, 05:52 PM	#600 (permalink)
...m... Denuo Volatilis Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,715	...they might perform exceptionally well, but the surely don't meet the classic definition of a sportscar... __________________ 2005 Federal Elise \| Touring \| Storm Titanium ...73,000 miles and aging beautifully... 2000 New Beetle \| Turbo \| Reflex Silver ...107,000 miles of steadfast service...