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Old 01-16-2013, 08:11 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Anyone Running Waterless Coolant?

Waterless Coolant was mentioned in a Wheeler Dealers show. It's a lifetime coolant, never needs flushing, runs at much less pressure because of a higher boiling point, and doesn't pit and corrode the inside of the engine. It's also non-toxic.

Jay Leno talks about it at:

Jay Leno's Garage - Waterless Engine Coolant | Car Care
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:29 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Never heard of it until now, I wonder how well ot would work on track days? Im on my phone so the video wouldn't load, but based on what I've read it seems like a fantastic product.
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Old 01-16-2013, 09:00 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I use Evans with excellent results.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:57 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I use Evans with excellent results.
Did you notice any difference in the normal operating temperature?
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:01 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Is this stuff allowed in lieu of water wetter by SCCA, NASA or other track event sanctioning bodies? If so it sounds like a good way to go.

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Old 01-17-2013, 03:27 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Very interesting stuff.
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:44 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Very much a mixed bag, the lifetime product has a lower thermal capacity than water based coolant. This means the average temperature will be higher. For the NA lotus owners, this is a small penalty. For supercharged owners, who are concerned about higher temps and heat soaking, perhaps not such a good thing. If your coolant temp is higher, your block is hotter, conducting heat to the intake manifold. The serious plusses are reduced corrosion, steam bubbles not forming in the water jackets, which reduce the risk of warpage at extreme temperatures (when overheated) and a long life for the coolant. As a note: the evens cooling website must be quite ashamed of their product's thermal capacity; they do not post their products thermal capacity. Keep in mind, water and anti-freeze are a tough act to follow, when it comes to cooling capacity. The evenscooling website sells higher flow waterpumps for corvette LS engines, this is likely to compensate for the lower thermal capacity of the coolant. It is also a back-door admission there may be a problem when the standard pump is used.
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:02 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Very much a mixed bag, the lifetime product has a lower thermal capacity than water based coolant. As a note: the evens cooling website must be quite ashamed of their product's thermal capacity; they do not post their products thermal capacity.
Where did you get the thermal capacity numbers? That's the first and most important thing to me. I went to their website to look for it and found nothing on it. Lot's of sales pitch stuff I'm not interested in but no detailed specifcation info.

Second would be how slippery is it if it gets on the track and is it approved for use by sanctioning organizations, specifically SCCA.
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:16 AM   #9 (permalink)
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The product is comprised of Ethylene Glycol, Propylene Glycol (anhydrous) and a small bit of additives. Thermal capacity of their product is around 0.66, which compares (unfavorably) with greater than 1.0 for water with antifreeze added. This is why they sell a higher volume pump for corvettes; the higher flow allows them to compensate for the smaller thermal capacity of their product. Likely, the product would work well in a cooler climate; perhaps not so well in the hotter parts of the country.
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:54 AM   #10 (permalink)
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IMO- Evans is a pain. we used in our GT-R racecar for a while and it didn't help with water temps over straight water w/ waterwetter. It's a pain at the track if you run short of Evans during an emergency service since the parts stores don't carry it.

Prep: You have to totally flush the system of water and glycol and let the system dry to do Evans properly. Again, just a pain...

The straight water with waterwetter works great in climates where temps don't freeze. A nice tech article here:

http://www.redlineoil.com/content/fi...ech%20Info.pdf

Probably not racing cars during the hard freeze months, so for dual use just dump some water and add glycol as needed in the fall. Flush in the spring and run water/waterwetter for the summer and call it good... My 2 cents...

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Old 01-17-2013, 03:50 PM   #11 (permalink)
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First I will say I have never tried it and donít plan to.. I use water/ RL WaterWetter and water/mild % orange coolant/waterwetter in my RX-7's and so far the Evora is as per factory.

That said, a number of RX-7 owners have successfully used Evans' in 400+ HP engines with heavy track usage, while some others complain of a power drop off due to the extra heat.

The plus of Evans is ability to run low to zero pressure in the coolant system, good if you worry about blowing water seals (in older blocks maybe).

The theory behind why it is a better alternative to water or water with PEG coolant is that its higher boiling point keeps it from vaporizing at the localized hot spot around the spark plugs, therefore transferring more heat to the coolant, dispute a potential lower heat transfer coefficient, after all it is much better than that of air from steam insulating the hot spots.
If overall oil/water temperatures are higher that is easily addressed by adding larger heat exchangers or otherwise improving their function. Higher flow water pumps are not needed, however the much higher viscosity may impeded flow through the OEM sized weep holes in thermostats.
Sierra PetSafe PG Coolant is a much cheaper alternative to Evans and is the same stuff minus additives.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:45 AM   #12 (permalink)
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If overall oil/water temperatures are higher that is easily addressed by adding larger heat exchangers
That's fine for street or production based race cars but that's exactly what I don't want to do running in FF. Radiators cause drag and in FF you need them sized just above marginal for the least drag and highest straight line speed.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:28 PM   #13 (permalink)
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That's fine for street or production based race cars but that's exactly what I don't want to do running in FF. Radiators cause drag and in FF you need them sized just above marginal for the least drag and highest straight line speed.
Again, I am not endorsing it, in fact you will never see it in my own cars; I am only pointing out what some others see as positives.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:04 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Is there anyone out there who has experience with waterless coolant in an NA daily-driver street (non-track) car?

Thanks.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:34 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Is this stuff allowed in lieu of water wetter by SCCA, NASA or other track event sanctioning bodies? If so it sounds like a good way to go.
That is a great question! I don't know, sorry.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:35 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Did you notice any difference in the normal operating temperature?

Absolutely, I have never seen my temps go over 190 on a hot summer day, usually stays at 188 most of the time. The only time I have seen temps go up is in heavy stop and go traffic, that is, also in a HOT summer day.

I can't say how much I love this product.

-DK
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:36 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Is there anyone out there who has experience with waterless coolant in an NA daily-driver street (non-track) car?

Thanks.
My Elise that is a street car has evans in it.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:46 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Here's a couple of things that I have done first hand, which some will find controversial:

I have run an Exige at the track (as an experiment) with no thermostat (don't ask me which car), there is such a massive amount of air that flows through the front radiator which causes temperatures to run cooler than operating temperature. On the first time I ran the car with no thermostat, I had to tape up the nose of the car to manage the airflow and regulate the temperature. Basically, using tape as a thermostat!

If anyone really has an heat issue with their cars, then simply drill a few holes in the thermostat, it does wonders.

With some of the engines that I have taken apart that have used water based coolant, I have found strange mineral deposits around the water jacket around the cylinder walls, which I find quite disturbing.

Personally using evans coolant in my Elise, it has been an interesting experiment. (yes, it has a thermostat) Can it be justified? Labor wise, its a lot of work. If someone were to do it for themselves, then sure, it can be a fun experience.

I agree with Phil, Evans is not found in most stores and if one runs out of it, or needs it for an emergency, then most likely it needs to be ordered. I have found only a handful of places that actually sell evans.
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:51 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Any thought to using VW/Audi G12 coolant? It would be easier to get. I don't know much about the properties of it though.
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Old 01-20-2013, 10:17 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukhtar View Post
Here's a couple of things that I have done first hand, which some will find controversial:

I have run an Exige at the track (as an experiment) with no thermostat (don't ask me which car), there is such a massive amount of air that flows through the front radiator which causes temperatures to run cooler than operating temperature. On the first time I ran the car with no thermostat, I had to tape up the nose of the car to manage the airflow and regulate the temperature. Basically, using tape as a thermostat!

If anyone really has an heat issue with their cars, then simply drill a few holes in the thermostat, it does wonders.

With some of the engines that I have taken apart that have used water based coolant, I have found strange mineral deposits around the water jacket around the cylinder walls, which I find quite disturbing.

Personally using evans coolant in my Elise, it has been an interesting experiment. (yes, it has a thermostat) Can it be justified? Labor wise, its a lot of work. If someone were to do it for themselves, then sure, it can be a fun experience.

I agree with Phil, Evans is not found in most stores and if one runs out of it, or needs it for an emergency, then most likely it needs to be ordered. I have found only a handful of places that actually sell evans.
Not sure if this applies to Elige motors, but most cooling systems work better with a restriction in them to prevent coolant cavitation at the water pump. IOW, it may be fine to remove the thermostat, but it probably should be replaced with a restrictor plate to reduce the x-sectional area of thermostat housing by about a half.
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