Auto-Tranny for Lazy Cheese Burgers?!?

[[mojo]]

Oh excellent, thanks for the pictures, guys.

[DeanG]

Need picture of cheeseburger!

[6_speed]

Originally Posted by DeanG

Need picture of cheeseburger!

Here you go - in case it's not obvious, it's the one on the right (double cheeseburger I believe):

[SteveLevin]

Personally I think everything started downhill when they added all the synchros and made it so you didn't really have to be precise shifting. It just took all the true feel and driving experience away.

Steve

[[mojo]]

Originally Posted by DeanG

Need picture of cheeseburger!

[Bavarian Motorist]

Originally Posted by SteveLevin

Personally I think everything started downhill when they added all the synchros and made it so you didn't really have to be precise shifting. It just took all the true feel and driving experience away.

Steve

No Devil's Advocates allowed

[ZAMMY1]

I felt bad when they took the horses away...........
i'll take the DSG tranny anytime, not the fully auto tranny, tho.
sam

[Bavarian Motorist]

I'd accept a single clutch transmission...in a Mercedes.

[dreggsagg]

Originally Posted by ZAMMY1

I felt bad when they took the horses away...........
i'll take the DSG tranny anytime, not the fully auto tranny, tho.
sam

[LARRY]

2009 Porsche Boxster......automatic. (Gulp!)

Porsche Doppelkupplungsgetriebe (PDK) – in detail

The next generation Boxster and Boxster S are available for the first time with the new Porsche Doppelkupplungsgetriebe (PDK), literally Porsche double-clutch gearbox. Offering no less than seven forward gears, the new gearbox combines the driving comfort of a torque converter-equipped automatic transmission with the dynamic manual gearshift functionality of a sequential racing gearbox. PDK also boasts an entirely automatic gearshift function, and replaces the Porsche Tiptronic S automatic transmission previously offered. Through its optimised and adaptive gearshift programmes, PDK further improves the acceleration of the Boxster models and reduces fuel consumption to an even lower level.

In principle, the PDK consists of a conventional manual gearbox and a hydraulic control system divided into two separate transmission units. Two wet clutches in radial arrangement, controlled hydraulically, and using oil for both cooling and lubrication, form the heart of the transmission. One clutch is for the first transmission unit with the uneven gear ratios (1,3,5,7) and reverse, and the other clutch is for the second transmission unit with the even gears (2,4,6). Via a number of pressure valves, the hydraulic control unit masterminds both the wet clutches and the shift cylinders activating the transmission ratio required.

The gearshift perceived by the driver comes not from the gears actually changing, but from the change of positive clutch engagement. In this case, the clutch on one transmission opens or disengages while the clutch on the other transmission closes or engages in a simultaneous process. The big advantage is an even faster gearshift than with a conventional manual gearbox or torque converter automatic transmission. The gears are already ‘in mesh’ when shifting and the power of the engine need not be interrupted in the process.

PDK also reduces to a minimum transmission power loss courtesy of the high standard of mechanical efficiency in the double-clutch, and this manifests itself in fuel economy improvements of approximately 13 per cent compared with a conventional Tiptronic S transmission. PDK also offers an advantage in terms of weight – despite two additional gears, it weighs 10kg less than Tiptronic S.

To use the various functions of the double-clutch transmission, the driver can either shift gears by means of sliding toggles on the spokes of the new steering wheel, or via the new gear selector lever. The driver can press forwards to shift the gears up, and press them from behind to shift downwards. Alternatively, pushing the gear selector lever forwards shifts up a gear, and pulling it back shifts down. The option of PDK costs £1,961.

[dstevens]

...its only available with DSG. There you have shifting-times of some milliseconds. Almost no human being is able to get such shifting times with a normal (stock) gearbox.

Put a DSG into manual mode, accelerate up through the gears, then try to manually downshift for a corner. The VW DSG first shifts into neutral, finds it has a higher gear pre-selected rather than a lower gear, changes the gear selection over on the undriven shaft, brings the rpm up to match, then switches the clutches and finally gets the lower gear. Total time is about 4 seconds, and I often find I've almost got through the corner (in neutral) before it gets the gear.

[ZAMMY1]

dstevens,was that the same tranny larry was speaking of?
larry, i'll bet that was a dandy of a valve body, but i guess it's all done with electric valves steering hydraulics?
we played with the early ('55) borg-warner ford trannys with no torque converter, using a power steering pump for hydraulic pressure to start out; the rear pump took charge from there. it used a conventional clutch to get moving.
after drilling the orifices in the servos and drums, it would bang-shift pretty well. this was all in the fifties...
modern equipment amazes me, tho
sam

[PECivil]

to chime in here

i am a died in the wool stick shift guy.....

but my M3 has smg and it rocks.

but then again I do have the elise to fall back on

but seriously, before you knock a modern smg try one

it shifts increadible well and is a manual tranny, it just does not have a clutch pedal

it is a VERY different than a shifting autotranny with a torque converter like on wifeys cayenne

shifting that is worthless unless you need to kick down fast

[biodan]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned one major advantage of SMG/DSG - <b>LEFT-FOOT BRAKING</b> is much easier (thinking of T10 at Sears). Overall, I got to like the SMG on my previous 02 M3, it did take practice to heel-and-toe with SMG, but it is possible and sometimes necessary when braking from partial throttle (thinking of T2 at Sears or T6 at Laguna). And it was pretty sweet quickly going down 2 gears under hard braking (T11 at both Sears & Laguna). When that car was new & stock, i dragged a buddy down the main straight in S6 at Laguna and slowly began to pull away; those 80msec S6 shifts (only possible with DSC off) were brutal on the drivetrain tho- i went back to S5 for longevity. While i've never driven a DSG/PDK, they're supposedly even quicker.

So many wasted electrons on debating this topic, just search the archives over at the E46M3 sections of Roadfly.org or bimmer forums.

[IXLR8]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist

If it helps sales, I'm all for it. I'm confident Lotus will adhere to their vision and always offer manual transmissions, so we needn't worry. Automatics are a PROVEN way to sell sports cars to poseurs and the like. Why turn customers away? Even Spyker is caving in and offering automatics.


I can just see it now. In 4 years, the most commonly asked question will be, "Is it possible to change out the automatic for a manual? - I found a REALLY GOOD DEAL on an Evora but it's an automatic...Can I swap it out??"

Your're also gonna see........" Need help changing rear end to lower gearing"