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Old 02-16-2013, 12:37 PM   #41 (permalink)
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I'd say its a little of both. Lack of extensive marketing means a segment of possible buyers never hear about the Evora. And the ones that do know about it, think its under powered and impractical compared to the Porsche, AMG, or M car they're considering.

I think exotic styling is low on people's list when looking for a sporty car. They need it to be practical too. Probably why more people drive AMG and M cars and why Porsche builds the Pamera.
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Old 02-17-2013, 12:16 PM   #42 (permalink)
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I find it downright stupid to call a NA Evora underpowered. Any base level car that has numbers in the 4's (4.9 etc) for 0-60 let alone its 1/4 mi numbers (anyone ever see them?) is NOT slow in any regard. To do this with that little HP is even more impressive.
How many of those Yank tanks that peak out at 155 limited would you even consider driving that fast due to lousy aerodynamics, suspensions etc. My 99 Cobra could scare the life out of you in a straight line at anything above 125 even in a straight line and even after extensive work to TRY and improve it. My XJ VDP is no top speed queen. (the 130 limiter is appropriate) You can drive an Evora all day at 150 and relax while doing it. To hell with the BS numbers I say. People spout off numbers at me and I say "see you at the track to prove it". You track boys know what I'm talkin about.
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Old 02-17-2013, 12:47 PM   #43 (permalink)
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I find it downright stupid to call a NA Evora underpowered. Any base level car that has numbers in the 4's (4.9 etc) for 0-60 let alone its 1/4 mi numbers (anyone ever see them?) is NOT slow in any regard. To do this with that little HP is even more impressive.
How many of those Yank tanks that peak out at 155 limited would you even consider driving that fast due to lousy aerodynamics, suspensions etc. My 99 Cobra could scare the life out of you in a straight line at anything above 125 even in a straight line and even after extensive work to TRY and improve it. My XJ VDP is no top speed queen. (the 130 limiter is appropriate) You can drive an Evora all day at 150 and relax while doing it. To hell with the BS numbers I say. People spout off numbers at me and I say "see you at the track to prove it". You track boys know what I'm talkin about.
Agreed... Except in America horsepower sells cars... especially sports cars!
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Old 02-17-2013, 01:02 PM   #44 (permalink)
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I heard Porsche has cancelled the 911, there is no market any more. Instead they build the Panamera Coupe now. But marketing said we can't do that and now they call it 911/991.
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Old 02-17-2013, 02:03 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Re: Evora makes Jalopnik's 10 Worst Engine-Car Combinations

Stupid perhaps but it is one of the slowest sports cars in its price category. I agree that it doesnt really matter but the critics at least have some basis for their point

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Old 02-17-2013, 03:20 PM   #46 (permalink)
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I heard Porsche has cancelled the 911, there is no market any more. Instead they build the Panamera Coupe now. But marketing said we can't do that and now they call it 911/991.
A little too much of a tale. While the 991 is a heavy departure from the 997, it is not a Panamera including engine placement differences. Only sharing of concept is interior console, but even that was in Porsche line prior to the Panamera.

Now as to Hp; most 911 's are in ball park (330-350 range) of the Evora S but in a heavier chassis.
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Old 02-17-2013, 04:36 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Agreed... Except in America horsepower sells cars... especially sports cars!
Yup most Americans are stupid and that is pretty well documented daily on you tube. Getting passed is apart of life, but the smile a perfectly executed apex gives you is priceless. BTW that perfectly executed apex will probably blow the HP psycho away and he'll be too embarrassed to comment later.
I like my kidneys and no Vette has found a way to save them yet. Maybe the C7 will finally find a better balance. Notice I didn't mention anything else. Until Porsche admits the Cayman is the superior car I won't show any more regard to Porsche.
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Old 02-17-2013, 05:59 PM   #48 (permalink)
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I don't mind being labelled as stupid but I will admit the Toyota Camry motor is the only reason I do not own an Evora and I hold Lotus in the highest regard. I am excited for the redo in 2015 or '16 with the alleged new motor. I can respect that its more about the experience than the numbers, but I believe Lotus can do better engine wise- every other manufacturer did at that price point. Even with the engine they are using, as others noted, they still did achieve great feats. Imagine if they had just a slightly better engine. Most of the other modern performance 6cyl's do not need a supercharger to get 330+hp.
Wait. I hope your saying that "after you drove the Evora you didn't like the engine." Right? Because if you don't like it just because it has a version of the Camery engine and it is slightley under 300hp, well then yes, your first statement is correct.
that would be like not liking Jags because they use Ford engines or a Bugatti for using VW engines( true it's 2 V8s bolted side-by-side )
I do not this to turn into Jalopnik, where people comment on cars they have had very little or no experience with, but make a summary judgement based on a few numbers.
I love to hate the Veyron. I think it looks like a pig, totally impractical, and too expensive. I can't speak to its performance because I will never get a chance to drive one, so i don't.
I want to love the Nissan GT-R. Super car killer!!!! It is kind of ugly but has great numbers. After a weekend with one I walked away satisfied that numbers tell only the smallest part of the story. to me, the GT-R was just not that fun.
Tromping on the gas for some straight line acceleration get boring very quick
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:18 PM   #49 (permalink)
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I don't mind being labelled as stupid but I will admit the Toyota Camry motor is the only reason I do not own an Evora and I hold Lotus in the highest regard. I am excited for the redo in 2015 or '16 with the alleged new motor. I can respect that its more about the experience than the numbers, but I believe Lotus can do better engine wise- every other manufacturer did at that price point. Even with the engine they are using, as others noted, they still did achieve great feats. Imagine if they had just a slightly better engine. Most of the other modern performance 6cyl's do not need a supercharger to get 330+hp.
Does it really matter how they get 276, 345 or 444Hp so what if it starts with power/volume ratios below 1.0 .. its a damn reliable engine that fits well into the Evora and Exige S providing great handling and flat torque curve and decent redline .. I think too many people can become "engine" snobs.
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:42 PM   #50 (permalink)
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i love the evora - and think she is very spirited.

top gear lap times list - see how many high horse power cars fall below and th evora (and this is the NA)

List of Top Gear test track Power Lap Times - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 02-17-2013, 07:38 PM   #51 (permalink)
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A little too much of a tale. While the 991 is a heavy departure from the 997, it is not a Panamera including engine placement differences. Only sharing of concept is interior console, but even that was in Porsche line prior to the Panamera.

Now as to Hp; most 911 's are in ball park (330-350 range) of the Evora S but in a heavier chassis.
In what way is the 991 a heavy departure from the 997 because I just sold my 997 for a 2013 Carrera S and the 2013 handles better and is considerably faster (11.8 1/4 and 7:37 around the ring)? A performance car needs to handle AND go fast in a straight line because there are straights between the turns.
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:25 PM   #52 (permalink)
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In what way is the 991 a heavy departure from the 997 because I just sold my 997 for a 2013 Carrera S and the 2013 handles better and is considerably faster (11.8 1/4 and 7:37 around the ring)? A performance car needs to handle AND go fast in a straight line because there are straights between the turns.
Third chassis in life of the 911
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:06 AM   #53 (permalink)
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I feel that the Lotus brand is a very passionate brand in terms of performance and engineering. I grew up around Lotus. Toyota and the car that shares this engine are the complete opposite. Dull, lack luster, and serving the masses who just want the complete opposite of passion. Why have a car that scores extremely well in all categories except the powertrain. I think its fair to say that it "works' but it could be so much better or entirely different engine. I loathe Jalopnik for their usual opinions and comments but I have to agree here.
I wouldn't even care if it was the same engine, just reworked by Lotus. For the base model to have roughly the same out put as the Camry is lazy. The financial numbers don't add up as well. An engine that cost a fraction of the $25k Camry in a $70k Evora with no significant improvements begs the question, is the Evora body worth $65k without the motor. We can all honestly admit the interior quality and materials was not quite up to the competitors in the recent past.
I truly believe if Lotus would have even slightly tuned this motor for just over 300 hp in NA form, it would compete better with the Boxster S in the market. The Evora S would be closer to 400hp and more competitive with the 911. The Camry correlation would be moot. Hell even Aston Martin bored the Jaguar 4.2 to 4.3. After owning dozens of cars, from Vipers, M3's, Maserati, multiple Elise.., I do not want to pay $80k for the equivalent of 0-60 over 4.5 and a quarter mile in the 13's. It's not about the numbers its what those numbers feel like everyday. Under $50k I can except that. Also when I see Corvette's, GTR's, and turbo BMW's putting out better real world performance I am disheartened that the company I've been rallying behind since I was kid, lose out for a poor powertrain execution. I know they could easily do better. Everyone thought it was better that Bahar was a marketeer than any sort of car guy. I think they need a car guy at the helm to get the company at the top of the heap in terms of performance per dollar.
I do love the car. I just think Lotus could do better.
At the end of the day it doesn't matter what I think or you think as an individual, its what the market thinks and Lotus mentioned they will be going with a different engine in the next redesign.
You pose a good argument. Seems to be Lotus' habit to bring out improved models slowly, perhaps the plan was to bring us more firepower but it was delayed by all the other company issues.
Maybe we'll see a livelier motor with more bang (literally).
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:49 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Why is it that so many of us in underpowered Lotus cars pass so many higher HP car? Those high HP cars, comparatively, are very difficult to drive at the limit while an exquisite chassis like the ones on our Eliges and Evoras communicate so much better at the limit (with all due respect to Randy's assessment based on a car that obviously had completely inappropriate tire pressures for track duty). Notice no numbers mentioned.
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:44 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Why is it that so many of us in underpowered Lotus cars pass so many higher HP car? Those high HP cars, comparatively, are very difficult to drive at the limit while an exquisite chassis like the ones on our Eliges and Evoras communicate so much better at the limit (with all due respect to Randy's assessment based on a car that obviously had completely inappropriate tire pressures for track duty). Notice no numbers mentioned.
You're referring to the track. It's a bit different when you're driving on the streets or freeways -especially if you're driving on streets or freeways that are just long, wide, and straight.
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:55 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Evora makes Jalopnik's 10 Worst Engine-Car Combinations

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Why is it that so many of us in underpowered Lotus cars pass so many higher HP car? Those high HP cars, comparatively, are very difficult to drive at the limit while an exquisite chassis like the ones on our Eliges and Evoras communicate so much better at the limit (with all due respect to Randy's assessment based on a car that obviously had completely inappropriate tire pressures for track duty). Notice no numbers mentioned.
What was the story with the tire pressures?



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Old 02-19-2013, 09:05 AM   #57 (permalink)
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On a highway if harassed enough I'll gladly run somone over 150 and see if they have the balls to go thru the corner without lifting. Do that in just about any muscle car and they lift lock'm up WAY in advance. Funny, they do that at the track too Hummm! It actually works out nicely that you gave them some car lengths so they can start braking earlier. Very serious on this one. To each his own. I'm done with the numbers hype.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:22 AM   #58 (permalink)
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On a highway if harassed enough I'll gladly run somone over 150 and see if they have the balls to go thru the corner without lifting. Do that in just about any muscle car and they lift lock'm up WAY in advance. Funny, they do that at the track too Hummm! It actually works out nicely that you gave them some car lengths so they can start braking earlier. Very serious on this one. To each his own. I'm done with the numbers hype.
I'll probably get flamed by the nannies for this but I can tell you that the measly 276hp Lotus Evora can outrun a 420hp 2013 Mustang GT at very high speeds especially when the Mustang hit's its rev limiter around 155. And, the Evora is still dead stable at those speeds. But when you get off the freeway and from a stand still, the 276hp Evora doesn't have much of a chance against the Mustang.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:14 AM   #59 (permalink)
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If its numbers that sell Lotus needs to emphasize what they consider important numbers. Weight, cornering braking, lap times etc.
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:58 PM   #60 (permalink)
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I'm particularly fond of the 1+ g and braking on par with or better than the McLaren mp4 for some distances, both steel and CC...
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