Evora vs. Cayman S

[6_speed]

For me, it all comes down to Evora's (US) price point because that is the easiest thing to adjust.

Forget about losing 200 lbs - ain't going to happen unless with CF and corresponding price hike. I believe Lotus tried their best in choosing material for the price point they have in mind.

Forget about a spartan interior to lose weight and cost because the Evora is aimed at a different market than Elise/Exige.

Forget about more power for now (by adding a SC) because that would move the price point even higher as well as making it tougher for a later higher power iteration.

So, we are stuck with what their production plans are and I believe at this point in the game, they are pretty much set for the 1st generation of Evora.

If the rumored $70k is true, they would have a tough time competing with a 911. Granted, they can move 600-800 units a year and if that is all they want/need to achieve, then so be it. However, if they expect to double(or triple) the number of units in the coming years, they will face an uphill battle with Porsche. At $70k, they will also have pricing issue when the Evora S comes out because from their Elise/EliseSC/ExigeS pattern, an Evora S is likely to be $7k-$9k more, taking it closer to a 911S.

All 3 cars - Cayman, Evora and 911 has similar power-to-weight ratio and car enthusiasts shopping in this segment knows that. So, Lotus won't have any clear advantage in this regard like they do traditionally.

In summary, if Lotus's goal is to move only 600-800 units per year for the forseeable future, then I believe they can price it right in the middle of a 911 and a Cayman.

[dickedup]

Originally Posted by cstetter

What does the Semiconductor industry count under?

Either way, I'm not willing to bet - since Lotus only plans to sell 800 or so units, they may well be pricing it over $75k, who knows? My point was only that we don't KNOW how much they will actually charge. On the markup, how to prove it if anyone paid over sticker or not?

Cheers!

The dealer will have an addendum invoice on the window right next to the Maroni sticker clearly stating what this local market adjustment will be. I'm guessing on the order of 5 -10 K.

Hell son... someone is going to have to pay for John Eagle's spiffy new Austin facility!

Look back on your automotive history. M-series BMW 3'ers and even Miatas got this "extra pop". Usually anything new and exciting or vehicles with very low production numbers.

[dickedup]

Originally Posted by 6_speed

For me, it all comes down to Evora's (US) price point because that is the easiest thing to adjust.

Witness the pricing of the Buzzbomb as an example. If they had base-priced that baby at $34,999 or so you would not have seen them stack up like cordwood at dealers across the nation.

The initial wave of the Evora will sell as the Looky@Me crowd will be all over this vehicle like a duck on a junebug. Lotus will become greedy and up the price even further as they enter production year el numero dos.

Hang on tight.

[Tuna]

Originally Posted by Simba

A supercharged Evora would be a reasonably quick machine. It's still going to be no where near my Turbo Elise, or hell, a slightly tuned Esprit for that matter. As I stated earlier, the Cayman cost me about $2k to realize some 350 hp.

You make some interesting points - but it's odd that you can decide against a car that's getting such positive comparisons with both the Cayman and the 911 without even taking a test drive.

As for speed - horsepower really isn't the whole story here and you should know it. The Elise has a completely different character and could never be pushed to high top speeds. The Esprit would do better, but neither car has a chassis to match the Evora. Reports of track times confirm this, but let's be honest, if your only concern is flat out speed,you could buy a muscle car, Ariel Atom, Lotus 2/11 or decent bike.

As you've bought a Cayman, I'm guessing you want comfort, something that can do long distances with ease, something that is a (bit) exclusive and with a good sporting pedigree. You care about handling, driver feedback, ride, precise steering feel and good brakes. You also probably don't want something to come along and make it look outdated.

I've been compiling a list of reviews (you can read it here), and a lot of people seem to think the Evora is a contender. Will you give it a test drive when it comes over to the US?

[Bavarian Motorist]

If you're suggesting Simba is biased because he is afraid his Cayman will look bad.... I just seriously doubt that...

[Tuna]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist

If you're suggesting Simba is biased because he is afraid his Cayman will look bad.... I just seriously doubt that...

Not at all, from what I've seen he knows his cars. The smiley was meant to show I was teasing - I hope he can take it in that spirit.

[mikeyd]

2nd Time poster and I come in peace! - I live in Fulham in West London and have just come back from an evening walk - in the last 2 hours I have probably walked past at least 50 911s. I have owned in the past 3 Porsches (944S2, Boxster & Carerra 4s) and I was the proud owner of the second Chrome Orange Elise S1 ('97) to come off the Hethel assembly line.
To me the Evora or Cayman/911? question is a non starter. I would always choose the Lotus- for the following reasons;
going to the local shop in my Elise usually took about three hours and involved 150 miles despite the fact it was only half a mile away.
Going anywhere in any Porsche turned me into the sort of person nobody likes - hard to describe really but I became a bit of an arrogant arse - remembering back I think I used to even 'smarten up' to get in the 911!
If the Evora handles as sweetly as reported and is even 25% more liveable than the Elise then I'm going to buy one. The Evora was designed with a love and passion for cars and driving and I don't care if it's a teeny bit slower or rougher than the competition.
I salute it's genius and it's flaws and I'll have the 2+2 in Black/Black.

[bueno]

Originally Posted by mikeyd

2nd Time poster and I come in peace! - I live in Fulham in West London and have just come back from an evening walk - in the last 2 hours I have probably walked past at least 50 911s. I have owned in the past 3 Porsches (944S2, Boxster & Carerra 4s) and I was the proud owner of the second Chrome Orange Elise S1 ('97) to come off the Hethel assembly line.
To me the Evora or Cayman/911? question is a non starter. I would always choose the Lotus- for the following reasons;
going to the local shop in my Elise usually took about three hours and involved 150 miles despite the fact it was only half a mile away.
Going anywhere in any Porsche turned me into the sort of person nobody likes - hard to describe really but I became a bit of an arrogant arse - remembering back I think I used to even 'smarten up' to get in the 911!
If the Evora handles as sweetly as reported and is even 25% more liveable than the Elise then I'm going to buy one. The Evora was designed with a love and passion for cars and driving and I don't care if it's a teeny bit slower or rougher than the competition.
I salute it's genius and it's flaws and I'll have the 2+2 in Black/Black.

I'm not looking to race anyone, streets or track although I have no doubt it will perform well but I am looking for a car that handles exceptionally well and me being me, I'm also looking for something not everyone has and Evora does it for me SC or not. I hear some people say the "look at me" car but if they knew ANYTHING about Lotus, which I know they do , they'll realize that Lotus has always built cars for enthusiasts "self gratification" and never to impress others. I will undoubtedly be purchasing this vehicle for "my self gratification" and could care less who looks or not.

A buddy of mine just informed me that Edmunds.com will be releasing a review of the Evora any day now and it gives it an astonishing great review with a mention of a certain "F" car

[dickedup]

Originally Posted by bueno

I hear some people say the "look at me" car but if they knew ANYTHING about Lotus, which I know they do , they'll realize that Lotus has always built cars for enthusiasts "self gratification" and never to impress others. I will undoubtedly be purchasing this vehicle for "my self gratification" and could care less who looks or not.

You are quite right that the Lotus stands for that something special so many of us love. This has always been the case. Happy that you have that mentality from way back in regards to these unique vehicles.

Unfortunately starting with the import of the beloved Buzzbomb to these shining shores there has immerged the Lotus Looky@Me along with his brothers, the Keepers of the Fu, and The Crazy Rabid.

The Evora is a great package.

[Simba]

Originally Posted by Tuna

You make some interesting points - but it's odd that you can decide against a car that's getting such positive comparisons with both the Cayman and the 911 without even taking a test drive.

Once again-- I'm not making any hard and fast judgements about the car until I drive one. I'm simply commenting on concerns I have about the currently available data on the car, and what that implies so far as Lotus' design and marketing decisions go. I really want a new Esprit, and if they follow the Evora formula with it, I won't be especially happy.

As for speed - horsepower really isn't the whole story here and you should know it.

No, it's not. However, neither is a complete and pathological devotion to "handling". A race kart handles better than any car ever made, doesn't mean I want to drive it on the highway.

if your only concern is flat out speed,you could buy a muscle car

I'm not sure how I can make this any more clear than I have already, but for one last attempt: My issue is not with top speed, nor straight line acceleration exclusively. I don't care about only those things. However, both are important in any well rounded car, and I'm not willing to gloss over the shortcomings of a given car because it does one thing spectacularly well.

You don't need a huge pile of horsepower if your car is extremely light, like an Elan. However, the Evora isn't. It's a tank compared to the Elise, much less an Elan, so it needs more power to be an exciting, overall enjoyable drive, especially at the price point it'll likely arrive at.

As you've bought a Cayman, I'm guessing you want comfort, something that can do long distances with ease, something that is a (bit) exclusive and with a good sporting pedigree.

No, I bought a Cayman because I drove one and deemed it to be one of the most interesting Porsches to drive in the last decade. The 911 Turbos are faster, but the AWD makes them annoying to drive. The GT2 is fast and interesting to drive, but ridiculously expensive. The Cayman, however, while down on power in stock trim (though easily fixed), is more an old school Porsche than just about anything they make at the moment. Great dynamics given the mid engine layout, great brakes even in non-PCCB form, quite light for a modern Porsche, quick gearbox, superb clutch, and a good value for what you're getting.

I ride a Ducati 916. Comfort concerns need not apply.

[mikeyd]

Just a thought on the price v.s availability of the Evora - owing to the recent world economic sillyness (i.e. both UK£ and the US$ have SIGNIFICANTLY devalued against the Euro) - we are now at the bizzarre point where the new Evora will be the same price in the Eurozone as a BMW 330 coupe and approx 15k cheaper than the Cayman...
E.g. the list price in france for the Evora will be 62.5k whereas an M3 or RS4 are around 80k (Euros).
This is just a hunch but If the currencies stay roughly where they are then there will be a massive demand for the Evora in Europe as it's starting to look like a steal (I mean if you had to choose between a 330 or an Evora?)- consequently the waiting lists in the US may start to stretch to somewhere over the horizon...
I believe the dealers may be rubbing their hands and licking their lips ... huge premiums here we come?
that was my £.02

[dickedup]

Originally Posted by mikeyd

I believe the dealers may be rubbing their hands and licking their lips ... huge premiums here we come?

Naturally.

Even the lowly Mazda Miata was getting a $5000 bump when it arrived here. Just the way it is mister.

[6_speed]

From autoexpress.co.uk:

Evora vs Cayman S
Red Blooded - Is the new Evora the finest Lotus ever? We find out by pitching it against Porsche’s Cayman S on some of Britain’s best roads

Evora vs Cayman S | Car Group Tests | Car Reviews | Auto Express

[LARRY]

Originally Posted by bueno

Other than Lotus, I don't think anyone actually believes their interiors are of high quality but, then again, as you stated, no one buys a Lotus for their interiors.

Interior looked very fancy and very nice at the L.A. Auto Show.

Much better than a Porsche Cayman which looks like every other Porsche inside.

P.S. This calls the Evora "brilliant."

Lotus rocks.

[ADR3]

The Noble or Rossion will outperform the Evora (by far) for the same price.

[Demonized]

Originally Posted by ADR3

The Noble or Rossion will outperform the Evora (by far) for the same price.

Yes but the Noble & Rossion are also much cooler... wait what!

[dickedup]

Originally Posted by 6_speed

From autoexpress.co.uk:


Evora vs Cayman S | Car Group Tests | Car Reviews | Auto Express

Still purchasing my second Snapper though. It'll be here in under a month!