Evora vs Porsche Panamera

[geezer]

Originally Posted by dickedup

Your 240 hits an aerodynamic wall up there in Speedville "Chuck Yager".

If you disagree, disagree. Why must you be a donkey about it?

[JohnnyQuest]

Originally Posted by 008

Actually the base 911 is listed at 3,075 lbs which includes 165lbs of driver and luggage. Both are 2+2s, having nearly identical weight distribution and with a projected price of $75k would be within $1500 in msrp. Those facts sure can get messy.

I stand corrected on the weight. It seems I was looking at the weight of the turbo. It seemed about right at first glance. That's amazing that it weighs about the same as the Evora yet puts out so much more power.

[Bavarian Motorist]

Originally Posted by JohnnyQuest

That was exactly my question!

Let's see....
The base Cayman weights a little bit less than the Evora and has 265 bhp while the S has 320 bhp. The 911 weights about 3490 lbs and has 345 bhp. (And the 911 is a rear engined car.)

But why bother with messy facts? The Evora obviously should be compared to the 911 rather than the Cayman because the 911 is...um...the more expensive and...let's see... more revered car (in spite of the fact that "Porsche left the sports car market long ago."). AND it would be so cool owning an Evora and having your buds think it was on the level of the 911.

Yeah, that makes great sense.

What are you on about? 3490 lbs? Rear engined or mid engined doesn't really make a difference in whether or not they should be compared. 345hp compared to 320 for the Cayman doesn't make much difference either.

The real reason it needs to be compared to 911s is because 911s also have rear seats. The 911 and Cayman are so close in price and performance that it is natural to compare the Evora to both, not just one or the other.


I don't think anyone cares if it's "on par" with a 911 in terms of...status...

[LotusStig22]

Originally Posted by xtn

Thanks for the defense 008 and the others who agreed with me.

I'm fifteen years old and I really hope to own my very own Lotus some day.

Personal insult removed. It wasn't clever enough to convey the full depth of DU's personality flaws.

xtn

What's wrong with 15 year olds?

Anyway, wasn't there a 2+0 Evora model that's also out? My point being would the 2 less seats make it comparable to a different Porsche? Or is this something really dumb to ask?

[lotusland]

Does any Porsche model really offer "status"? Or any BMW for that matter, since we have a beemer fan in the house? There are so many of both on the road, and they are so terriibly generic, who can really get excited about them? Who cares how many HP any of them offer?

Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist

I don't think anyone cares if it's "on par" with a 911 in terms of...status...

[JohnnyQuest]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist

What are you on about? 3490 lbs? Rear engined or mid engined doesn't really make a difference in whether or not they should be compared. 345hp compared to 320 for the Cayman doesn't make much difference either.

The real reason it needs to be compared to 911s is because 911s also have rear seats. The 911 and Cayman are so close in price and performance that it is natural to compare the Evora to both, not just one or the other.


I don't think anyone cares if it's "on par" with a 911 in terms of...status...

My point was that the base Cayman has about the same power and weight as the Evora and is also mid engined. It's an obvious comparison. To me the back seats are irrelevant. That's like comparing sports cars that both offer navigation systems. Ok, maybe that's a stretch, but not much. I was comparing the cars based on power, weight, drive train configuration, and purpose in life. The fact that I way off on the weight of the 911 actually strenghtens my point. The 911 is way more powerful per weight than the Evora.

I think Lotus is hoping for a fair shake against the Cayman. I don't think many magazines will compare it to the 911. That was my point (albiet poorly stated.) If the comparison is steering feel, the Evora will likely win, but in a head to head road test that balances road and track useability (as Lotus claims the Evora was intended), I'd be very surprised if any magazines will compare it to the 911. I'd be surprised if Lotus would want it compared to the 911. We'll see.

[JohnnyQuest]

Originally Posted by LotusStig22

What's wrong with 15 year olds?

Anyway, wasn't there a 2+0 Evora model that's also out? My point being would the 2 less seats make it comparable to a different Porsche? Or is this something really dumb to ask?

Nothing is wrong with 15 year olds. In fact I think it's fantastic that a 15 year old is that knowledgeable about cars and especially a Lotus. At the risk of sounding like the old fart that I am, I thought all 15 year olds were just into video games. We need kids to keep the sports car industry going when we are racing scooters in old folk’s homes! If I knew he was 15 I'd have been a lot more respectful. Sorry kid. Hang in there.

[Allan Gibbs]

I may be flamed for this but considering the 0 to 60 numbers the 2009 Boxster's been getting (low four second range) due to launch control but a meager 310hp, maybe it's better not to pick on the more powerful, 345hp 911. Sure acceleration isn't everything but Posche isn't Ford or Pontiac either.

I think final pricing will decide which Porsche the Evora competes against.

[ms355]

Originally Posted by Allan Gibbs

I think final pricing will decide which Porsche the Evora competes against.

Exactly. Prices in Germany are (base versions, in Euro, including VAT):

Evora: 59,990

Cayman: 50,314
Cayman S: 61,976

Carrera: 84,705
Carrera S: 95,891

Panamera S: 94,575
Panamera turbo: 135,154

[LotusStig22]

Originally Posted by JohnnyQuest

Nothing is wrong with 15 year olds. In fact I think it's fantastic that a 15 year old is that knowledgeable about cars and especially a Lotus. At the risk of sounding like the old fart that I am, I thought all 15 year olds were just into video games. We need kids to keep the sports car industry going when we are racing scooters in old folk’s homes! If I knew he was 15 I'd have been a lot more respectful. Sorry kid. Hang in there.

Thanks for the support mate. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE video games, but I just beat Need for Speed: Undercover and I'd trade that in for a real track day anytime.

But yeah, my goal is an Elise/Exige by 26, hopefully it'd happen.
Btw, xtn isn't 15, nor is Dickedup, but DU sure acts 10 sometimes.
But back on topic, I'd still like some feedback on the 2+2 vs 2+0 specs. Are they different? Thanks in advance for a response.

[ms355]

Originally Posted by LotusStig22

But back on topic, I'd still like some feedback on the 2+2 vs 2+0 specs. Are they different? Thanks in advance for a response.

I do not have a link to a price list in English language, so here is the German one. Please refer to the prices given as "Brutto" (which means including VAT).

http://www.mueller-motors.de/fileadm...vora_Preis.pdf

Obviously there is no difference between the 2+0 and the 2+2 except for the extra 'seats'.

[LotusStig22]

Originally Posted by ms355

I do not have a link to a price list in English language, so here is the German one. Please refer to the prices given as "Brutto" (which means including VAT).

http://www.mueller-motors.de/fileadm...vora_Preis.pdf

Obviously there is no difference between the 2+0 and the 2+2 except for the extra 'seats'.

Danke, mate. So the prices are different, but if my German is terrible (which yes, it is) is there any difference in performance?

[LotusStig22]

Originally Posted by ms355

Exactly. Prices in Germany are (base versions, in Euro, including VAT):

Evora: 59,990

Cayman: 50,314
Cayman S: 61,976

Carrera: 84,705
Carrera S: 95,891

Panamera S: 94,575
Panamera turbo: 135,154

So for a Panamera turbo I can get 2 Evoras???
Suddenly, Sunny realized Porsche was rubbish. And it took him long enough too...

[ms355]

Originally Posted by LotusStig22

Danke, mate. So the prices are different, but if my German is terrible (which yes, it is) is there any difference in performance?

You're welcome.

There is no difference in performance. Unless you put two adults in the back seats of the 2+2.

[ms355]

Originally Posted by LotusStig22

So for a Panamera turbo I can get 2 Evoras???

That's the way it is - and we should keep in mind that Porsche offers a very long list of costly options.

Nevertheless, I am sure that the US prices will be lower than the $/€ exchange rate might suggest.

[LotusStig22]

I hope to god so, otherwise I will use the 4th of July Fireworks half an hour away in their dealership. On their 911s. With liquid nitrogen on the floor.

The options list makes me want to tear my eyes out...><

[dickedup]

Originally Posted by Allan Gibbs

I may be flamed for this but considering the 0 to 60 numbers the 2009 Boxster's been getting (low four second range) due to launch control but a meager 310hp, maybe it's better not to pick on the more powerful, 345hp 911. Sure acceleration isn't everything but Posche isn't Ford or Pontiac either.

I think final pricing will decide which Porsche the Evora competes against.

Any Lotus will remain a niche purchase for many Rednecks out there in Sports Car World.

[LotusStig22]

Originally Posted by dickedup

Any Lotus will remain a niche purchase for many Rednecks out there in Sports Car World.

Which would explain why you've had 8 Muchacho...

[dickedup]

Originally Posted by LotusStig22

What's wrong with 15 year olds?

"Well, it got so that every piss-ant prairie punk who thought he could shoot a gun would ride into town to try out the Waco Kid. I must have killed more men than Cecil B. DeMille. It got pretty gritty. I started to hear the word "draw" in my sleep. Then one day, I was just walking down the street when I heard a voice behind me say, "Reach for it, mister!" I spun around... and there I was, face-to-face with a 15-year old kid. Well, I just threw my guns down and walked away. Little bastard shot me in the ass. So I limped to the nearest saloon, crawled inside a whiskey bottle, and I've been there ever since."

[LotusStig22]

See, maybe THIS is the reason no one likes you...or did you just assume everyone was kidding?