Evora vs Porsche Panamera

[dickedup]

Originally Posted by LotusStig22

Which would explain why you've had 8 Muchacho...

But Lotus sports car ownership was way different back then. Came up through MG's, Triumphs, Austin-Healey's et al. Like to recall it as the British Engineering Torture Trail.

Have to say though for screwing parts things together it's hard to beat the Krauts. This latest batch of Porsche products freaking rocks the world. The Snapper will be getting larger and more powerful engines as the years scroll by as will the Boxster.

[bull30]

Originally Posted by dickedup

This latest batch of Porsche products freaking rocks the world.

No doubt Porsche makes a well-made car, but calling it a sports car is quite a stretch (with a couple of exceptions). WAY over-priced and you might as well take out a 2nd mortgage to afford the service. It's definitely a status car and WAY too tame to drive, in fact it's a rather boring car (with a couple of exceptions)... Besides, the power seats, navigation, etc. adds weight and doesn't help you get around the track any faster. We have a coulple of P-cars in our stable but the Lotus is the most fun to drive and that's the bottom line... I didn't buy my Lotus to go grocery shopping and get dents in the parking lot.

The parts falling off my car may be made by fine British craftsmen, but you can't take away the fact that it's a blast to drive and easy to maintain.

[xtn]

Originally Posted by JohnnyQuest

My point was that the base Cayman has about the same power and weight as the Evora and is also mid engined. It's an obvious comparison. To me the back seats are irrelevant. That's like comparing sports cars that both offer navigation systems. Ok, maybe that's a stretch, but not much. I was comparing the cars based on power, weight, drive train configuration, and purpose in life. The fact that I way off on the weight of the 911 actually strenghtens my point. The 911 is way more powerful per weight than the Evora.

You make good points.

So I guess the question really is this:

Is it better to select a comparison car by matching up performance as close as possible and then pointing out the usability differences? Or is it better to make the match by identifying usability qualities, and then pointing out the performance differences?

Usually magazine comparisons are done on cars that have similar usage capabilities (for example the mag will line up mid-sized four door sedansagainst each other) and then pointing out the other differences.

If we want to follow that model, we should choose the base Carrera.

xtn

[PECivil]

back on topic

which Pcar does the evora compairs to is a interesting question. Maybe the answer is none of them.

It compairs to the 911 because it has 2 vestigial rear seats, like a 911. The compairo being the oft used justification to get a 911 because "I can throw children (and an occasional adult) or stuff in the rear seat" and " I can't justify a 2 seat car in the familia with kids to wifey". If you are honest this is a real issue when actually plunking down lots of money for a car.

Plus it does match up on weight and kindaof on price. And it seems as you would almost expect, the 911 has more HP and accell and a better build quality, while the lotus will have better steering with more feel. Of course we dont have any evora owners yet to verify that.

With the Cayman, you are maybe closer to the evora performance wise, and somewhat lower on price, but dont get the 2 "extra" seats, have similar or less hp, maybe equal or slightly better build quality.

I submit the evora is almost a morphing of the Cayman and 911, performance wise, price wise, utility wise.

[xtn]

Originally Posted by JohnnyQuest

Nothing is wrong with 15 year olds. In fact I think it's fantastic that a 15 year old is that knowledgeable about cars and especially a Lotus. At the risk of sounding like the old fart that I am, I thought all 15 year olds were just into video games. We need kids to keep the sports car industry going when we are racing scooters in old folk’s homes! If I knew he was 15 I'd have been a lot more respectful. Sorry kid. Hang in there.

Thanks. I'm not really fifteen. I'm middle-aged and already have my Lotus. I was just being a smarty-pants jerk in response to what I perceived as like treatment. Unfortunately I act like a fifteen year old in that regard.

xtn

[LotusStig22]

Originally Posted by xtn

Thanks. I'm not really fifteen. I'm middle-aged and already have my Lotus. I was just being a smarty-pants jerk in response to what I perceived as like treatment. Unfortunately I act like a fifteen year old in that regard.

xtn

Yeah, but I'm 15 and I don't act like that usually. It's just sometimes...
I'm not offended because it wasn't an offense, I just feel like whenever someone mentions "15 year old" they're pointing a finger at me, which is pretty conceited too.

[bueno]

I think this really boils down to 4 things:
Looks, handling, 0-60 times and exclusivity

This is what we know from the 3 cars and just a little from what we've been told on Evora.


Cayman S
Base Price: $60,200 and $63,620 w/PDK (-$14,795 and -$11,375 compared to Evora)
HP: 320 (+44 HP compared to Evora)
0-60 MPH: 4.9 seconds, 4.8 seconds w/PDK and 4.6 seconds w/PDK Sport (0, -.1 and -.3 seconds compared to Evora)
Top Speed: 172 MPH (+10 MPH compared to Evora)
26 MPG (-6 MPG compared to Evora)
Curb Wieght: 2976 and 3031 lbs. w/PDK (-70 and -15 lbs. compared to Evora)

911 Carrera
Base Price: $76,300 and $80,380 w/PDK (+$1305 and +$5385 compared to Evora)
HP: 345 (+69 HP compared to Evora)
0-60 MPH: 4.7 seconds and 4.5 seconds w/PDK (-.2 and -.4 seconds compared to Evora)
Top Speed: 180 MPH (+18 MPH compared to Evora)
25 MPG (-7 MPG compared to Evora)
Curb Weight: 3075 and 3164 lbs. w/PDK (+29 and +118 lbs w/PDK)

Evora
Base Price: $74,995 -but could come in a little lower as told by Lotus
HP: 276 -as listed
0-60 MPH: 4.9 -as listed
Top Speed: 162 -as listed
32 MPG -as listed
Curb Weight: 3046 -as listed

[fitfan]

Originally Posted by dickedup

"Well, it got so that every piss-ant prairie punk who thought he could shoot a gun would ride into town to try out the Waco Kid. I must have killed more men than Cecil B. DeMille. It got pretty gritty. I started to hear the word "draw" in my sleep. Then one day, I was just walking down the street when I heard a voice behind me say, "Reach for it, mister!" I spun around... and there I was, face-to-face with a 15-year old kid. Well, I just threw my guns down and walked away. Little bastard shot me in the ass. So I limped to the nearest saloon, crawled inside a whiskey bottle, and I've been there ever since."

...lets play chess !!

[...m...]

Originally Posted by bueno

This is what we know from the 3 cars and just a little from what we've been told on Evora.

...comparative road tests are universally coming back saying that the porsches feel sloppy compared to the lotus - not bad, just considerably more muted and rubbery handling...the evora is said to offer a notably crisper and engaging driving experience...

Originally Posted by LotusStig22

Yeah, but I'm 15 and I don't act like that usually. I just feel like whenever someone mentions "15 year old" they're pointing a finger at me, which is pretty conceited too.

...i used to be fifteen and i loved every day of it...as far as i'm concerned age is irrelevant; anyone's meaningful contribution to discourse is welcomed...

[spacepig]

Originally Posted by bueno

I think this really boils down to 4 things:
Looks, handling, 0-60 times and exclusivity

The only people who care about a 1% difference in stats are the kind of people who buy Porsches.

I'm getting an Evora, and I don't give a **** whether a Cayman is two tenths quicker to 60.

[LotusStig22]

Originally Posted by spacepig

The only people who care about a 1% difference in stats are the kind of people who buy Porsches.

I'm getting an Evora, and I don't give a **** whether a Cayman is two tenths quicker to 60.

That's a good way of thinking.

[bueno]

Originally Posted by spacepig

The only people who care about a 1% difference in stats are the kind of people who buy Porsches.

I'm getting an Evora, and I don't give a **** whether a Cayman is two tenths quicker to 60.

Agree and kinda of why I posted those figures also, with only 500-600 cars coming to North America, dealers won't have any problems selling what little they get. Personally, I think Evora sits comfortably between the Cayman and 911. You get the mid-engine layout like you'll find in the Cayman and you get the 2+2 that you find in the 911 with better handling, exclusivity and better looks. I like a lot

[spacepig]

Agreed. Lotus has literally designed exactly the car I am looking for. The back seats make all the difference for me, even as relatively useless as they are. I would have bought an Elise years ago, except we have a 4 year old kid. I would only ever get to drive it by myself.

[dickedup]

Originally Posted by bull30

No doubt Porsche makes a well-made car, but calling it a sports car is quite a stretch (with a couple of exceptions). WAY over-priced and you might as well take out a 2nd mortgage to afford the service. It's definitely a status car and WAY too tame to drive, in fact it's a rather boring car (with a couple of exceptions)... Besides, the power seats, navigation, etc. adds weight and doesn't help you get around the track any faster. We have a coulple of P-cars in our stable but the Lotus is the most fun to drive and that's the bottom line... I didn't buy my Lotus to go grocery shopping and get dents in the parking lot.

The parts falling off my car may be made by fine British craftsmen, but you can't take away the fact that it's a blast to drive and easy to maintain.

Exactly what degree Keeper of the Fu are you anyway? A Porsche is not a sports car?

Buzzbombs are fun to drive because they feel like the street-legal go-karts they truly are.

Check out your Ring times there hombre.

[dickedup]

Originally Posted by fitfan

...lets play chess !!

Bart: Well, Jim, since you are my guest and I am your host, what's your pleasure? What do you like to do?

Jim: Oh, I don't know. Play chess... screw...

Bart: [quickly] Well, let's play chess.

[008]

Having owned porsches and Lotus, I enjoy both. I think people who dismiss either marque, haven't driven the other or are blinded by their prejudices. I have a baby on the way so I'm looking for a 4 place fun car. Right now that looks like an Evora, a 911S, an M3 or a GTR. It's more and more cming down to the 911S and the Evora. Need to see and drive the Evora. Ideally I'd like a California hardtop that was 500lbs less and under $165k.

[dickedup]

Originally Posted by 008

Having owned porsches and Lotus, I enjoy both. I think people who dismiss either marque, haven't driven the other or are blinded by their prejudices. I have a baby on the way so I'm looking for a 4 place fun car. Right now that looks like an Evora, a 911S, an M3 or a GTR. It's more and more cming down to the 911S and the Evora. Need to see and drive the Evora. Ideally I'd like a California hardtop that was 500lbs less and under $165k.

It's a toolbox and what works for one may or may not work for others. Realize that the Crazy Rabid hereabouts have this fantasy "David vs. Goliath" thang percolating in their noggins. That's more than fine. Whatever gets 'em through the day.

Wait and drive the new Evora to see how she shapes up.

[fitfan]

Originally Posted by bull30

No doubt Porsche makes a well-made car, but calling it a sports car is quite a stretch (with a couple of exceptions). WAY over-priced ....

i dunno - is it that porsche does not make sports cars? (along with ferrari, etc, all....) or is it that what is a sports car has changed in the past 20 years?

i would have got a porsche, but i didn't like all the power this and auto that junk stuffed in it. however - i have never driven a porsche that (old, new, front, rear, mid engine) i didn't say to myself "i would own this". they are great cars in there own ways.

is an f430 a sports car? or a poser GT'ish super high performance, prestige, 2 seater thing? ...maybe that is what a sports car is now? times do change and the world along with it...

i like the elise because it is an "old school" sports car - that what i like - old alfa's, tvr's, and such. the elise is just a modern interpretation of that. - so by that definition - (for production cars in the us) it is the ONLY sports car!

well, that can't be right? i mean miata's and boxsters, and s200's ...i say they are MODERN sports cars. and on up the line...

[dickedup]

Originally Posted by fitfan

I dunno - is it that Porsche does not make sports cars? (along with Ferrari, etc, all....)

Is a F-430 a sports car? or a poser GT'ish super high performance, prestige, 2-seater thing?

[xtn]

Saying that Porsche doesn't make a sports car is essentially saying that your definition of a sports car is so tight that nobody really makes one with any real volume any more.

Are the Lotus products a little more raw and involving? Sure. Does that mean you can't have some serious fun in a Porsche? Does a Porsche cross the line out of sports car territory just because it's got a cup holder, a bit more leather and a few extra pounds of solid build quality? I don't think so.

xtn