Evora's at Overseas Motors (Dallas, Tx)

[DeanG]

Originally Posted by Doghouse

Hmmm let's see there was this guy named Collin and he had this idea that lightness was the key to automotive performance on track and that form should follow function / performance. The idea was quite revolutionary because at the time the other car guys were building big heavy high horsepower cars and corresponding street cars were even bigger and heavier and had lots of gadgets and some of them even looked pretty. I think he started a company that had the basic engineering approach that the performance of a car should be measured, hmmm let's see, .... on a track. Collin and his company came to be famous for building light, nimble, no-frills, track cars and trackable street cars that 99% of automotive drivers found to be too harsh, too uncomfortable, too small, etc...

I don't associated 1950's era race cars with frills. Most seem fairly basic to me. Now Chapman did build cars by repurposing and parts bin engineering. Once the 60s rolled around it seems pretty clear there was a great distinction between Lotus race cars and road cars. The cars where the line is blurred between race and road are the Type 14 and the Seven.

Originally Posted by Doghouse

When a first car weighs nearly 1900 lbs more than the second car that you are comparing it to and the first car has only 17-20 hp more than the second car, the first car (IMHO) is rightly called a big fat pig of a car.

I believe you are the one comparing the various models of Lotus not I. Now I would be willing to speak ill of many of the modern high performance sports cars and super cars. I will reserve judgement in the Evora until I have driven one.

Originally Posted by Doghouse

Perhaps someone from Lotus is reading / listening and appreciates a difference in opinion. They are big boys and girls, they hopefully can figure it out. If they want me to save them from making a big mistake, well that's going to cost them money.

At LOG a representative of LCU (I believe it was Dave Simpken (sp), a wonderful, kind & hard working fellow, with at title something like west coast service manager) said that part of his job was to read LotusTalk.

Originally Posted by Doghouse

Indeed Lotus is clearly not retaining the best features of the Elise / Exige and that is too bad in my opinion. Unfortunately the success of the Elise / Exige was because it did provide something unique to the automotive market. That uniqueness was it's raw driving experience and nimbleness (i.e. the very same ideas that some guy named Collin thought was important.) and drop dead exterior lines.

I believe that the last Lotus that received direct input from Collin Chapman was the Esprit. An up market car over previous cars. Would the equation hold Evora / Elise = Esprit / Europa?

Originally Posted by Doghouse

Enjoy your Evora and the associated creature comforts, just don't be upset when it does not perform as well as an Elise / Exige.

I hope to have an Evora (a light blue convertible with automatic please) some day and I don't think I will be dissatisfied. That will leave our 1958 Seven for spirited open air motoring and allow me to say disparaging things about Elise owners like "Real men drive Sevens, those posers in their Elise don't understand true sports cars". Our 1967 Elan, the best handling car in the world, for communing with the road and allow me to say disparaging things about Elise owners like "The fat tires, A/C and ABS of the Elise keep the poor Elise drivers from experiencing true subtlety of a drivers car." Our 1991 Elan for short pleasure trips and allow me to say disparaging things about Elise owners like "Poor souls, If they only had a true convertible that is vice less and practical they would be much happier. Maybe they should try and Evora"

[Doghouse]

Originally Posted by DeanG

I hope to have an Evora (a light blue convertible with automatic please) some day and I don't think I will be dissatisfied. That will leave our 1958 Seven for spirited open air motoring and allow me to say disparaging things about Elise owners like "Real men drive Sevens, those posers in their Elise don't understand true sports cars". Our 1967 Elan, the best handling car in the world, for communing with the road and allow me to say disparaging things about Elise owners like "The fat tires, A/C and ABS of the Elise keep the poor Elise drivers from experiencing true subtlety of a drivers car." Our 1991 Elan for short pleasure trips and allow me to say disparaging things about Elise owners like "Poor souls, If they only had a true convertible that is vice less and practical they would be much happier. Maybe they should try and Evora"

You forgot to add "And don't even get me started talking about those mamby pamby Miata drivers. They should just take their rainbow sticker bearing wanna-be Lotus cars and their touchy feely emo music and go choke themselves with their scarfs."

How's that? Make you feel any better?

It still does not change my initial impressions / opinions regarding the Evora. I suppose we'll both have to see how the car does on the road and in the marketplace. I sincerely hope that I am wrong and it is a huge success because as Al pointed out, we don't want Lotus pulling out of the US market or even worse doing a Chrysler / GM on us.

But let's be realistic here for a moment, the road going GT / exotic market is a pretty tough market to compete in and $80K can get you riding down the road in some pretty nice cars. And with the deals you can cut at dealerships these days, $80k cash is more like $100-110 sticker price range. Of course you can't buy an Evora right now, so perhaps that's irrelevant.

BTW, if a Lotus USA rep is reading these forums they've already seen how happy I am with the after-sale service / treatment we get here in Houston. It makes me want to run out and buy a Evora, may be even two. I'd also be happy to tell you how accommodating and friendly the local Parts Dept. is. But that is another topic and I would need more than a few hits of the Koolade to calm my enthusiasm.

[xtn]

Originally Posted by Randy Chase

To some extent. I have removed weight in a previous race car and removing a front mounted battery (midengined car) and relocating it caused the front end to have no grip (to my surprise).

I should have said that it will rotate easier assuming there is enough grip. Like I said before there are many, many factors of setup that all add up to the dynamic balance of a car. Weight bias is one of them. If moving the CG rearwards lost you some front end grip, I humbly suggest your setup was dialed in for optimum grip with the battery up front. You changed something and it wasn't optimum any more. I'll bet with a simple adjustment somewhere else you would have got your grip back and - at least mass-wise - would have resulted in a car that turned better.

Look at something like an Audi A4. Engine actually forward of the front axle line. High front/rear weight bias. Understeers like crazy at the limit according to the articles I've read. Moving weight forward does not inherently provide more grip in the front.

Actually to be more clear I should say it like this: Weight in the front does provide more mechanical grip in the front, but it also means you've got more mass to move up there. So there are two factors working against each other. Probably in some circumstances the extra mechanical grip will win out, and in other circumstances the extra mass trying to go straight will win out. Setup of the other factors can help control those circumstances.

The Elise/Exige is also very rear weight biased. Dare I claim that my Exige understeers a lot less than any of the cars I've ever owned with a front weight bias? Would nobody believe me? The claim was made that a high rear weight bias inherently results in understeer. I disagree. If it's true somebody needs to tell the Porsche 911 engineers!

xtn

[texige]

I saw the car in Austin and it is much better looking in person. Pictures do not adequately show the lines.

The interior is very tasteful, with plenty of room for 2 and the quality looked very good.

The Evora looks like a much more expensive car IMO.

FI the Evora and the performance would definitely trump the Exige plus the seats adjust, the AC works .........

[jesterbot]

Originally Posted by DeanG

We know, based on statements from LCU representatives, that both the red and black cars are prototypes. Was the Top Gear car a prototype or an early production car?

Good question, but I'm guessing an early production car, as Europe is supposed to have these by winter...

Also I'm not seeing some of the telltale signs of the prototype/engineering samples in all these review videos - like the undisguised shiny vent ducts clearly visible under the top grilles for one...

[DeanG]

Originally Posted by Doghouse

...

Definitely made me LOL. If you get to LOG 30 in Gettysburg I'll be happy to shake your hand and buy you a drink.