Finally found a real Twin Turbo 2GR-FE - Page 3 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 
LotusTalk.com is the premier Lotus Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-05-2012, 03:35 AM   #41 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 1,063
Most pressing item will be a charge cooler to reduce the compressed air temperature. Problem is the space needed because this goes in between the compresor and the manifold, i.e. the compresser will have to move up. Also you need to figure out where to get the cooling from.

No need to think about higher compression ratios befor solving this.
tbd_Evora is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-05-2012, 04:09 AM   #42 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Near Vienna, Austria
Posts: 254
Air to water intercooler, couldn't the cooling elements be placed inside the existing manifold? Charge cooler could be placed in front of water cooler?
__________________
Evora S Chrome Orange, loaded - KomoTec Stage 3s - Larini exhaust - Pioneer HU - custom interior
Nissan GT-R 2012 (550HP) Black Edition - Wrapped in red - Flapped exhaust - Racing brakes - Spec-V Wheels
Mini Cooper S (Turbo) Convertible - Black - unmodified
Range Rover Evoque Prestige Si4 - loaded
Sold: Nissan 370Z Roadster Pack - Black Cherry - unmodified
Sold: McLaren MP4-12C, Nissan GT-R 2011
dmpriso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 04:19 AM   #43 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 1,063
Possibly, but that is exactly where the engineering effort will have to go.
tbd_Evora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 06:39 AM   #44 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Plackslayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 3,412
What it sounds like is it the kit were available at a reasonable price for performance gain - that would be at least 2~3 people with cash already in hand.

Let's hope someone pulls an UGR feat of magic and shows a fully capable system ready to go without teasing us into oblivion lol.
Plackslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 07:06 AM   #45 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Charlotte NC, USA
Posts: 119
One major holdup, that few people are talking about, is that there isn't a fully featured tuning solution available for the OE ECU outside of EFI Italy or Lotus. We need control of:

Primary spark/fuel table
Injector scaling/latency
Knock sensor filtering/response
MAF scaling and/or speed density operation
IAT compensation (warm/cold start, etc.)
TPS logic (tip in, accel and decel compensation)

That's just off the top of my head. As far as we have seen here, nobody can provide this with the EFI Euro8 variant that the Evora uses. Few of us are willing to give up our street registration and move to a standalone ECU.

donour
donour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 07:32 AM   #46 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Plackslayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 3,412
Quote:
Originally Posted by donour View Post
One major holdup, that few people are talking about, is that there isn't a fully featured tuning solution available for the OE ECU outside of EFI Italy or Lotus. We need control of:

Primary spark/fuel table
Injector scaling/latency
Knock sensor filtering/response
MAF scaling and/or speed density operation
IAT compensation (warm/cold start, etc.)
TPS logic (tip in, accel and decel compensation)

That's just off the top of my head. As far as we have seen here, nobody can provide this with the EFI Euro8 variant that the Evora uses. Few of us are willing to give up our street registration and move to a standalone ECU.

donour
I'm fine with a Standalone ECU here in Oklahoma - they do no ODB testing or even visual inspection.

I just need the right price.

I already have the Kold-Fire tune - do they have access to all that information or is some of it missing with the stock ECU?
Plackslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 07:45 AM   #47 (permalink)
Registered User
 
abechen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbd_Evora View Post
I would say it is rather unlikely that someone will be so stupid to spend 10K purchasing the parts and then selling the kit for 7.5K.

At least he won't be doing it for long!
Why would a popular aftermarket supercharger like HTV1320 have to cost that much.

Est. street price
Htv1320 -$2500
Cast Intake manifold adaptor for 3G -$500
Lighten Flywheel -$600
ACT Clutch upgrade - $400
Tune - $600
Evora Tax - $1000
Total for parts - $5600

Ramtin already did most of the homework.
abechen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 10:29 AM   #48 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 1,063
You develop it, build it, add warranty and I'll buy it.
tbd_Evora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 11:00 AM   #49 (permalink)
Registered User
 
abechen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 489
A custom intake manifold with the cooler would be nice.

HARROP | Superchargers
abechen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 12:09 PM   #50 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Plackslayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 3,412
Who wants to try and get a Kenne Bell in there so we can hear it from 3 miles away?

Mustang GT 2.1 Kenne Bell Twin Screw Supercharger - Bassani Mustang Ford Racing Boost - YouTube
Plackslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 01:16 PM   #51 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Woodland Hills
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbd_Evora View Post
You develop it, build it, add warranty and I'll buy it.
Now there is a man with common sense...
Gatso7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 01:22 PM   #52 (permalink)
Registered User
 
ramtin1000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Irvine,CA
Posts: 1,026
Here are couple of answers to things that you guys mentioned. I'm sure all you guys know by now that I did supercharge my system using factory parts and here is the list of parts and prices. The reason for higher prices and how we tuned it.

To answer the statement that in extreme heat the supercharged car will make less power or identical power to NA car is absolutely wrong. During tuning process we had some seriously hot and humid days here in California. I'm talking about 118 F and 85% humidity. It was going on for 2 weeks straight and that's exactly when we were tuning. Yes the car was making less power but not the same as the NA. Originally in the first day the car made 345WHP in a 95F temp and 45% humidity.Next day with the same tune we went back to dyno and the car made 320WHP. So yes heat does kill power but not all of it.

Next thing will be the answer to the price of the supercharger kit. When I was looking for different source to buy the kit other than lotus we even called Australia to see if we can buy it direct from TRD and the price I got was even higher than what lotus offered me. I think one important thing about this kit is the manifold designed by Harrop which adds some serious cost to the supercharger. The SC by itself from TRD was around 6K which with shipping and cost of Manifold was gonna be much higher than what lotus offered. Keep in mind that when you buy the kit from lotus it comes with everything. Injectors, fuel pump,SC, Manifold,Mounting Bracket, Belt,Clutch ,Flywheel and all the bolts. The cost of that whole package was $8900 including shipping.

Finally to answer the tuning you don't need to do a piggy back solution. When BOE tuned my car they uploaded a new S tune to my existing ECU which wasn't even a 2011 and it worked perfectly fine. They actually build a new tune specially for the 2010 ECU since there was no S stock tune for 2010 as S cars were introduced in US in 2011.
ramtin1000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 04:38 PM   #53 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Woodland Hills
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramtin1000 View Post
Here are couple of answers to things that you guys mentioned. I'm sure all you guys know by now that I did supercharge my system using factory parts and here is the list of parts and prices. The reason for higher prices and how we tuned it.

To answer the statement that in extreme heat the supercharged car will make less power or identical power to NA car is absolutely wrong. During tuning process we had some seriously hot and humid days here in California. I'm talking about 118 F and 85% humidity. It was going on for 2 weeks straight and that's exactly when we were tuning. Yes the car was making less power but not the same as the NA. Originally in the first day the car made 345WHP in a 95F temp and 45% humidity.Next day with the same tune we went back to dyno and the car made 320WHP. So yes heat does kill power but not all of it.

Next thing will be the answer to the price of the supercharger kit. When I was looking for different source to buy the kit other than lotus we even called Australia to see if we can buy it direct from TRD and the price I got was even higher than what lotus offered me. I think one important thing about this kit is the manifold designed by Harrop which adds some serious cost to the supercharger. The SC by itself from TRD was around 6K which with shipping and cost of Manifold was gonna be much higher than what lotus offered. Keep in mind that when you buy the kit from lotus it comes with everything. Injectors, fuel pump,SC, Manifold,Mounting Bracket, Belt,Clutch ,Flywheel and all the bolts. The cost of that whole package was $8900 including shipping.

Finally to answer the tuning you don't need to do a piggy back solution. When BOE tuned my car they uploaded a new S tune to my existing ECU which wasn't even a 2011 and it worked perfectly fine. They actually build a new tune specially for the 2010 ECU since there was no S stock tune for 2010 as S cars were introduced in US in 2011.
I stand corrected as I meant a Lightly tuned NA car.....

For $8900 you can do some serious tuning of the NA can get consistent HP without the extra complexity and weight.

I'm not knocking the SC at all. But if you come up with a charge cooled solution then you can make all that cost really show for the HP gain. That means another 5K plus add the labor for the fitting of the entire kit from Lotus.

Either way you go your spending money but hopefully you get the reliability of everyday driving or else your spending a lot more
Gatso7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 04:54 PM   #54 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Charlotte NC, USA
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramtin1000 View Post
Finally to answer the tuning you don't need to do a piggy back solution. When BOE tuned my car they uploaded a new S tune to my existing ECU which wasn't even a 2011 and it worked perfectly fine. They actually build a new tune specially for the 2010 ECU since there was no S stock tune for 2010 as S cars were introduced in US in 2011.
In your case, factory Evora S parts were used and the Evora S engine calibration file works. However as soon as you step outside those bounds, the engine tuner will need control of the systems that I mentioned before. To develop a new forced induction system from the ground up, you certainly want all of them.

Again, as far as I know, nobody outside of OEM has full mapping capability for these ECUs. There is a development kit available for the Euro8 ecu, but the actual evora parts seems to be different from the off-the-shelf motorsports kit.

donour
donour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 10:15 PM   #55 (permalink)
Registered User
 
ramtin1000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Irvine,CA
Posts: 1,026
I'm sure tuning a turbo will be much different from the supercharger tune.
ramtin1000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 09:32 AM   #56 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Woodland Hills
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramtin1000 View Post
I'm sure tuning a turbo will be much different from the supercharger tune.
To really tune a turbo correctly you have to build the whole system well from the very beginning. Flow to head (plenum) to exhaust flow to turbo receiving the correct flow so that it doesn't lose spool. Ultimate horsepower is only good if your full throttle. Drive-ability is much harder to achieve but ultimately more rewarding as your scavenging exhaust not running off of the motor pulley. Most certainly why Lotus chose a SC, cost and complexity.
Gatso7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2012, 09:09 PM   #57 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 76
Evora Turbocharging potential...

Well, I recently had a cursory look at one these cars...and I think there is hope for a domestically produced, well sorted and durable turbocharging solution for this car.

I did the engineering, layout and production of the ForcedFed turbocharging systems before anyone had a clue about forced induction for the 2ZZ. We have been involved in the engineering, design and production of OEM quality aftermarket specialty products for over 20 years. Quietly.

My company, DMC Components is interested in taking a more comprehensive look at an Evora to properly evaluate this possibility. I have in place the resources to properly deal with the OEM Italian-based EFI ECU.

We are located in Northern California (SF Bay Area) and would like to talk to any Evora owners that might be interested in exploring that option. Feel free to PM me and I will forward my contact details. This is for evaluative purposes.

Sincerely, Jim Dunford, DMC Components.
DMC Comp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 08:21 PM   #58 (permalink)
Registered User
 
abechen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plackslayer View Post
Also any thoughts on a smaller pulley or larger SC?
HARROP | Superchargers
abechen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2012, 01:28 PM   #59 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Plackslayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 3,412
Quote:
Originally Posted by abechen View Post
The question is will that fit onto our motor?
Plackslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community > Lotus Discussions > Lotus Evora



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.