Looking at buying an Evora, concerned about maintenance costs.

[BOFslime]

Looking at buying a 2011 Evora manual (driving it once made up my mind between Cayman S and the Evora). Been lurking for a week, searching for an idea what I'm in for. I have a fair handle on warranty work to ask about, but I'm still missing yearly maintenance costs. I searched extensively but other threads asking about it just end with comments referring the OP to their user manual. Being that I don't yet own the car, I do not have this, and I can't seem to find it online.

I'll be calling the local service department tomorrow to see what information they have, but I'm looking basic yearly operation costs.


Oil changes I can do myself, and I understand typical is 1 year or 9k miles, no problem here. What other things should I be looking for at such a service interval?

My concerns are with the high wear of the factory tires, fixable by replacing with a better wearing set I would assume.

Brake's seem to last around 10-15k miles and aren't too bad to do, but rotor replacement will probably be in the 20-25k range.

The high cost of clutch replacement is a MAJOR concern for me, so much that while I highly prefer the manual, i'm contemplating waiting to find an ISP to avoid the whole ordeal. I replaced the clutch on my 04 STi @ 60k miles and while AWD will cause more wear on the clutch than RWD, I do on DD'ing my Evora.



So if a full set of tires is $1000, brake pads are ~$400 replaced yearly, and rotors are $2000 replaced every other year. Looking at roughly $2400/year average in maintenance costs. (worst case scenario)

If I drive 10k/year over 6 years at 60k miles, and a clutch job costs $6k, that brings up an average cost up to $3400/year. Clutch should last longer than this, but again, worst case scenario.

This isn't even accounting for any of the other quirks that come with a hand built car and unforeseen issues.

While I can easily afford the car, I'm starting to think this isn't going to work due to the maintenance costs.

[Ron Avery]

While I only have around 5000 miles on my 2011 2+0. I would say don't over analyze the $. I have owned a 1984 Euro Ferrari 308 QV, and a 2003 Maserati Coupe GT. The Maserati was my DD, the 308 was not. The Maserati was horrible, ever visit to the dealer was $500 - $1500 every time. With a clutch job at 29000 miles($5500). While most of the other Coupe owners had clutch jobs at any were from 5000 miles and up (F1 trans) mine was a stick.
I think most of the clutch issues on this forum have been defects. If you drive sympathetically, 30,000 miles or more should be about it for a clutch in this type of car. I have had just a few problems with my car. Nothing that would keep it parked however. The Alpine 505 head unit is a P.O.S.. That and a few other small items, that could wait for a scheduled service. Except for the dead key issue (that is now fixed).
I would stick with the manual, if you like driver involvement, as I do. Just my 2 cents, and buy has late a car as you can (2011 or newer). The Evora is a fantastic car, nothing else in the price rang can touch it. And with price dropping like a rock, you can't lose!
Ron

[donour]

Originally Posted by BOFslime

Oil changes I can do myself, and I understand typical is 1 year or 9k miles, no problem here. What other things should I be looking for at such a service interval?

My concerns are with the high wear of the factory tires, fixable by replacing with a better wearing set I would assume.

Brake's seem to last around 10-15k miles and aren't too bad to do, but rotor replacement will probably be in the 20-25k range.

The high cost of clutch replacement is a MAJOR concern for me, so much that while I highly prefer the manual, i'm contemplating waiting to find an ISP to avoid the whole ordeal. I replaced the clutch on my 04 STi @ 60k miles and while AWD will cause more wear on the clutch than RWD, I do on DD'ing my Evora.



So if a full set of tires is $1000, brake pads are ~$400 replaced yearly, and rotors are $2000 replaced every other year. Looking at roughly $2400/year average in maintenance costs. (worst case scenario)

If I drive 10k/year over 6 years at 60k miles, and a clutch job costs $6k, that brings up an average cost of $3400/year. Clutch should last longer than this, but again, worst case scenario.

This isn't even accounting for any of the other quirks that come with a hand built car and unforeseen issues.

While I can easily afford the car, I'm starting to this this isn't going to work due to the maintenance costs.

While I think some costs for the car are higher than people expect, a few of those cost are probably inflated. Sometimes it just doesn't make sense to source factory parts from the manufacturer.

Like the tires, you can save same cash with a good, quality brake rotor like centric. It will do perfectly fine for street driving. In fact, I put centric blanks in place of the factory brembo rotors on both my WRX and Evo for _track_ use. Combined with factory pads (ferrodo DS2500 or equivalent) the cost should be at or less than $1k for brakes and should last at least a year of street driving, maybe two.

There's no doubt the the cost per mile is pretty high on the evora. For the price of clutch, you can buy a really nice beater/bad weather car.

donour

EDIT: With a high-performance all season, you'll likely double your mileage per set of tires.

[BOFslime]

Hrm, that actually sounds worse than I thought. If the clutch is nearing needing replacement at 30k miles, I fear that's just not going to work out at all.

@donour; you're correct, in fact I did DBA4000's and padgid pads when it came time to do brakes on my STi. So brakes shouldn't be a real issue as the stock brembo's lasted me 30k, and my dba4k's and pads are still going at 80k plus (with its new owner).

[XHILR8N!]

Be sure to factor in the costs of any women you might gain or lose etc.

[Sven76]

On the clutch, if you drive properly, why shouldn't it last 60k miles or even 90k? I never had a clutch replaced at any of my cars and some went over 60k miles. Also believe the costs are overestimated, a honest dealer with experience (say a specialist doing Lotus only) will give you a realistic price. Clutch is down to how you use it, some people kill a clutch pretty fast.

Other costs are for sure cheaper than a Cayman. Used to have a Boxster and Porsche demands premium, the Lotus is cheaper to maintain.

OEM tires are expensive but very good, some aftermarket option available.

[Ron Avery]

Originally Posted by BOFslime

Hrm, that actually sounds worse than I thought. If the clutch is nearing needing replacement at 30k miles, I fear that's just not going to work out at all.

30K miles for the clutch, was my worst case, I agree that you should get way more milage out of it. I have always gotten around 40,000 + plus in all of my cars, except the Maserati (that I bought used with 14,000 miles already on it). If you are so concerned with $, try another WRX or something similar.
Ron

[Vishus_1]

I wouldn't hold my breath that the base clutch in the standard Evora will last over 30,000 unless babied. Check out the other Lotus forums - particularly those in Europe and the UK and read some of the horror stories going on with clutches and expense. There is a reason it was beefed up on the Evora S and the GTC.

Just my 2 cents.

[Allan Gibbs]

Shouldn't the Evora's clutch also last as long as a Camry provided it's not abused or initially defective (in which case it should wear out within the first 10,000 miles)? The engine and transmission are still from Toyota and the 276 hp Evora is not that more much powerful than a Camry to cause issues. The Evora S is another matter.

[Me!]

While I don't own an Evora, I am wondering why every Evora owner is panicking about their clutches for no reason... Both of my cars are manuals and none have needed a new clutch yet. My dd has 122K, with the original clutch too! Why would the Evora clutch be so much worse? It isn't an F1 clutch system or a crazy high horsepower car...

[BOFslime]

Originally Posted by Sven76

Other costs are for sure cheaper than a Cayman. Used to have a Boxster and Porsche demands premium, the Lotus is cheaper to maintain.

I see this stated a lot around here, even my sales guy said maintenance was cheaper on the Evora vs the Cayman S. I just can't seem to find what costs more, tires are the same summer category, brakes actually look cheaper on the Porsche, oil is even easier to change yourself, and what I can find out about a clutch replacement is roughly $2800 including flywheel replacement. With the Porsche being more mass production I would suspect general random failures and bad luck should be less.

Don't get me wrong, my STi came with RE070's and Brembo's (which i got 25k and 35k out of), while the standard Evora pzero's seem to wear faster, I can always go with something not as ultra grippy (I was pretty happy with my Dunlop StarSpec's). So most of this is what I expected, but the clutch is really the only thing that is concerning.

What expenses did you encounter with your Porsche?

[x-ray]

Originally Posted by BOFslime

I see this stated a lot around here, even my sales guy said maintenance was cheaper on the Evora vs the Cayman S. I just can't seem to find what costs more, tires are the same summer category, brakes actually look cheaper on the Porsche, oil is even easier to change yourself, and what I can find out about a clutch replacement is roughly $2800 including flywheel replacement. With the Porsche being more mass production I would suspect general random failures and bad luck should be less.

Don't get me wrong, my STi came with RE070's and Brembo's (which i got 25k and 35k out of), while the standard Evora pzero's seem to wear faster, I can always go with something not as ultra grippy (I was pretty happy with my Dunlop StarSpec's). So most of this is what I expected, but the clutch is really the only thing that is concerning.

What expenses did you encounter with your Porsche?

Both the Cayman and Evora are relitivly expencive cars to purchase new. Buying used will require some maintenance and attention. I looked at both of these cars myself when deciding ona sports car. It just costs dollars sometimes to get these cars serviced. Some can be done yourself, and other things may need dealership assistance.

If you buy a expencive sports car, you may need provide some dollars to get the car serviced. for the most partr both cars are reliable and can be used as a DD. you may not want to ver think the maintence costs.

[invictusmaneo]

there is some high price associated with maintenance of odd items out of warranty but overall it isn't too bad. usually labor is the cause (removing clams, dropping motor, etc) for some of the necessary maintenance.


FWIW-after going through brake issues recently..sourcing non-OE replacements is near impossible. I've tried AP directly, as well as a few other custom makers. Centric lists part numbers but I can't find prices. Sector111 will see about sourcing you a set of aftermarket cupdiscs from Giro (they have some on their car) but they are 2000ish for all 4 corners..Komo-tec has replacement fronts at 1200 Euro but I don't like the look of them and they aren't true floating 2 piece nor are they much ligther than OE.

I was quoted 580 per corner from the dealer in CA, but lotus garage will source them for 275ish per corner. So not awful, but not cheap either. Also FWIW-The OE brake pads are insanely overpriced and are identical to the ferodo DS2500 in compound...

[JLSELISE]

Originally Posted by Allan Gibbs

Shouldn't the Evora's clutch also last as long as a Camry provided it's not abused or initially defective (in which case it should wear out within the first 10,000 miles)? The engine and transmission are still from Toyota and the 276 hp Evora is not that more much powerful than a Camry to cause issues. The Evora S is another matter.

Don't think you'll find a Camry with a manual/clutch. The Evora 6-speed comes from a Toyota diesel truck IIRC / not sure about the source of the clutch, though. IOW, the Evora's drivetrain is a unique Lotus creation.

[donour]

Originally Posted by Allan Gibbs

Shouldn't the Evora's clutch also last as long as a Camry provided it's not abused or initially defective (in which case it should wear out within the first 10,000 miles)?

Yes, although what other car as a manual transmission with a 2GR-FE? None as far as I know. The transmission is actually from another vehicle and lotus made an aluminum adapter plate to mate them together. I'm not trying to scare anybody, just pointing out that we don't know.

I would expect 100k miles from normal street driving, but who of us drives like that!?

Originally Posted by Me!

While I don't own an Evora, I am wondering why every Evora owner is panicking about their clutches for no reason... Both of my cars are manuals and none have needed a new clutch yet. My dd has 122K, with the original clutch too! Why would the Evora clutch be so much worse? It isn't an F1 clutch system or a crazy high horsepower car...

A very good point. Remember, heat is the biggest killer of clutch discs. Don't do lots and lots of drag-style launches or ride around with the pressure plate half engaged.

donour

FYI: the new dunlop ZII comes in evora sizes, so I'll be getting a set the spring.

[donour]

Originally Posted by invictusmaneo

FWIW-after going through brake issues recently..sourcing non-OE replacements is near impossible. I've tried AP directly, as well as a few other custom makers. Centric lists part numbers but I can't find prices.

[offtopic]
Did you try the major retailers like JCWhitney, Napa, and Autozone? Those are often just rebranded centrics.

donour

[Allan Gibbs]

Camrys does have manual transmissions? Really? Hmmm. I thought it was an option.....just not a popular one.

[Sven76]

Originally Posted by BOFslime

. With the Porsche being more mass production I would suspect general random failures and bad luck should be less.

What expenses did you encounter with your Porsche?

The drivetrain is a design fault, at least for the 996/986 generation, understand 997 had similar issues and hope they have it sorted by now for the 991. Shaft seal leaks for most water cooled Porsches and when out, better do clutch because it's already heavy in the 4-digit $$$$. GT2/3 never affected because the have another engine block.

Porsche dealerships over here in Germany have hilarious pricing. Lotus though is cheap as chips

Good cars, but running cost is not the factor to take into when deciding for either of them (were are not talking F355 or similar, those are true nightmares).

[RaceCarDriver]

I'm surprised the Evora clutch can fail at 30k miles. I've owned 911's and Corvettes with 100k miles and the original clutch. My Supra had 140k miles and the original clutch.

To the OP, I had a 996 C4S and now an 08 Cayman S. Both are super reliable and maintenance is not bad at all if you can find a good Indy mechanic and not the dealer.

The Cayman S only requires service every 20k miles, and maintenance is minimal, figure $500 every 20k miles from an Indy, $1k from a dealer. I'm a fanatic so I change my oil every 3k.

[Allan Gibbs]

BOFSlime, quite honestly, you should be fine getting an Evora (preferably with warranty). What you'd most likely experience would be little things like problems with the radio or trim pieces. I've had my dashboard replaced because I noticed a little ripple in the leather and Lotus graciously covered that under warranty. My a/c wasn't blowing cool enough and after resetting fault codes 3 times, Lotus cover a new replacement a/c. My left hand grip on the door was slightly loose. And, Lotus covered that as well. My seat has some slight scuffing which may be due to premature wear. Lotus is considering that as well. Keep in my, my car was a "executive car" and had 10,000 miles when I bought it. So, Lotus could have easily said those are wear and tear items.

The clutch is an expensive replacement (although I've never priced the cost for a Porsche clutch replacement). But I'd say it's a low risk unless you frequently do 6,000 clutch drops while racing Mustangs at stop lights.

EDIT: This site may be helpful. I presented it to my dealer when I brought up the seat issue:
http://wiki.seloc.org/a/Known_Issues_-_Evora