...Lotus cars official availability...

[...m...]

Originally Posted by ...m...

...i doubt we'll see a dealer-delivered federal evora before 2011; late 2010 at the earliest...

...i expect the first federal models will trickle out autumn 2010, with widespread availability not until around the new year 2011...

...what's more interesting, i think, is how close they're coming to the initial federal elise target of ten pounds per horsepower...they're so close on the prototype: add just twenty more horsepower or shave just two hundred pounds, or some combination thereof, and they're there...

[khamai]

Per the press conference at the LA Auto Show, Lotus stated the Evora would be available in the US in October 2009. Check out GOLDEN GATE LOTUS CLUB - LOTUS EVORA NEWS!

Cheers,
Kiyoshi

[plastique999]

what will be the ballpark price point?

[JohnnyQuest]

For what it's worth, this says November or December of 2009 which sounds quite reasonable to me.

LA 2008 Live: Lotus Evora comes to the stateside

It appears that the show car is very close to a fully functional car. Why wait even to the end of 2009? I think because that should give them ample time to shave the weight by 250 - 300 lbs. This is Lotus remember. Everyone else is expected to increase the power. Lotus is obligated to decrease the weight. Just under 3,000 lbs is just about 300 lbs too heavy. They and everyone else knows that.

My deposit is for the convertible, so they better hurry up and finish the hard top!

[Conor]

These things need to come out sooner than later. The sooner they come out.. the sooner someone will wreck one.. and the sooner I can put the drivetrain into my MR2 (legally)

[...m...]

...wouldn't it be quicker to simply crib the drivetrain from a camry?..

[Conor]

Originally Posted by ...m...

...wouldn't it be quicker to simply crib the drivetrain from a camry?..

It's a California smog thing. Camry swap would be legal, but I'd have to use the 5-speed autotragic (must keep transmissions paired with engines). Toyota does not sell a car in the U.S. with a 2GRFE and a manual gearbox.

The Lotus comes with Toyota's newer 6-speed manual transaxle, too.. so.. bonus!

I'd rather own an Evora, but hey..

[FrankM]

why is the price of the used Evoras going down so fast , there not holding the value like the Elise and exige do .

[SwingLo]

Why does any car lose it's value? Why do Maserati's lose so much value.

I think there are a number of reasons:

- Perception of quality
- Perception of 'slow' relative to the price point and competition
- The high initial price point
- The future of Lotus
- The future of the dealer network
- Lack of awareness
- Lack of market 'acceptance' - the Elise/Exige have achieved iconic status. The Evora, while a great car, just isn't one that has blown people away - enthusiasts, journalists, etc.
- Competition - at the Evora's price point, there a lot of sports car options. The are literally no options for an 'exotic' like the Elise at a $25-30K price point.

[cornbeef]

Originally Posted by SwingLo

Why does any car lose it's value? Why do Maserati's lose so much value.

I think there are a number of reasons:

- Perception of quality
- Perception of 'slow' relative to the price point and competition
- The high initial price point
- The future of Lotus
- The future of the dealer network
- Lack of awareness
- Lack of market 'acceptance' - the Elise/Exige have achieved iconic status. The Evora, while a great car, just isn't one that has blown people away - enthusiasts, journalists, etc.
- Competition - at the Evora's price point, there a lot of sports car options. The are literally no options for an 'exotic' like the Elise at a $25-30K price point.

what he said;

but Eliges dropped a lot initially also - Exiges more than Elises - after they were about 3-4 yrs old it stabilized and has pretty much held at ~50% original sticker, I can see the Evoras doing the same.

Remember too that Lotus screwed the pricing on the first ones by way overpriced them and within 6mths had dropped the entry price by $10-15,000 so when the S came out it had the same sticker as the first non s ones.... which rapidly depreciated the early cars by the fact a new one was cheaper than a used one.....

[jet37ski]

I sort of disagree with you. As someone who bought one less than two weeks ago, there wasn't really any used stock out there for much less than the new stuff.

[lynnpreston]

Originally Posted by SwingLo

The Evora, while a great car, just isn't one that has blown people away - enthusiasts, journalists, etc.

I respectfully disagree on that point:

EVO 2009 Car of the Year
AutoCar 2009 Britain's Best Driver's Car
Car magazine 2009 Performance Car of the Year
Top Gear magazine 2009 Sports Car of the Year
Popular Mechanics 2011 Auto Excellence - one of the top 10 Cars of the year

[hifiandmtb]

^^^ +1.

I started a "best 5 cars driven" poll on a forum here down-under & the Evora featured heavily.

Indeed, I was surprised. Those that have been given an opportunity to drive an Evora properly are rather smitten.

[Plackslayer]

I wouldn't trade mine in for most cars double the price (and most tripple the price as well).

I'm picky and the Evora hits all the right buttons.

[fitfan]

i drove an S demo rather spirited around 17 mile drive / pebble beach. without question, one of the best cars i have had the pleasure to drive, ever. after that i drove the jag xjrs or what ever their hot rod is called. it suxed, was a disaster in comparison.

i wouldn't hesitate for a moment to own an evora, and there are very few cars i would say that about.

it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people in the general population don't like it, as most people have no clue what a proper handling car is.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by jet37ski

I sort of disagree with you. As someone who bought one less than two weeks ago, there wasn't really any used stock out there for much less than the new stuff.

Not sure what you mean by this? There are many posts on this boadr of lightly used 2010's and 2011's selling low to mid-50's, and it seems some people have bought new 12's at discount. Are you saying that the remaining 10's and 11's are being discounted to the price of the used '10's and '11s?

For example, Autosport on Long Island is showing two used 2011's, both for $59,500, so I would assume they would sell for a little less.

[invictusmaneo]

12s aren't getting such a drastic discount, anywhere. In fact people are complaining about the fact they aren't discounting them.


I think we have a misconception of the total market availability of Evoras, just becasue we have such a concentration of cars listed for sale here, at a Lotus community. I'd be interested to see a % comparison of total cars on the market vs total cars in the US...I would guess compared to even other low volume marques (ferrari, maserati, mclaren) it wouldn't be much. **** Mclaren of Tampa has like 12 mp4s in stock right now.

Also, 59500 for what is a 2 model year old car isn't much..and I don't think the depreciation on the used 10s and 11s is that bad, especially when you look at market averages of used acrs driving off the lot and losing 20-30% within a few weeks in value. Granted when you compare what some are paying compared to their sticker (myself included) particularly for 2010 cars, it can be distorted..but I think we are seeing relative stability in the market as far as prices, and about average loss in value. If you look at the Elige pricing trends, it fluctuated a great deal, and I would bet as supply/demand fluctuates over the months we will see it in the Evora too. Shoot when I bought my 05 Elise in 2011 I paid 25700, and then it recently sold for 33k.


And either way, I'm totally happy. I love this car, and I would respectfully disagree with a big DITTO to the above-it was very well received by journalists world wide and the 12s still get accolades for the improvements over previous years.

Drove it across country, just put 2000 miles on it in two days, about to put another 1500 on it in the next 4 driving to key west and back. Really can't fault my car.

[Dylan]

Agree that there isn't a lot of info on 12's, and that's not surprising because there aren't that many, and fewer have sold. Having said that, this thread How much did you pay for your Evora? suggests that 2010 and 2011 cars - both new and lightly used, sold/sell for anywhere from 17% to 28% below list. Whether there will be a similar impact on 12's, who can say. But, just looking at inventory and seeing cars built in January and February of '12 still available, well, it's just about '13, and selling one in the next few months is tricky, especially in the northeast and midwest. I'm not trying to predict anything, just recounting what others have said they've paid. So, a 2011 that listed for $78k/$79k, with 2-4k miles would seemingly sell for high $50's to low $60's. It seems that some people paid as little at mid-$50's and some as much as mid $60's, some even got these prices for brand new cars, and some were lightly used.

I think the only point was that I can appreciate how difficult it is to be a dealer. If a brand new or nearly new 2011 that listed for $78k, can be reasonably bought for $63k, it's tough to sell a brand new '12. While there were improvements, as there were with every year of the Elise, unlike Porsche, BMW, etc. the basic drivetrains of Lotus cars - engine, brakes, transmissions, and suspensions, tend to stay the same. The S is clearly an upgrade, but a 2010 versus a 2013 NA car - and I'm not discounting cosmetic, workmanship and other improvements - but like the 2005 and 2011 Elise (or the basic Exige to the 2011, once the original S became available), it's much the same car/driving experience. YMMV.

[invictusmaneo]

Originally Posted by Dylan

Agree that there isn't a lot of info on 12's, and that's not surprising because there aren't that many, and fewer have sold. Having said that, this thread How much did you pay for your Evora? suggests that 2010 and 2011 cars - both new and lightly used, sold/sell for anywhere from 17% to 28% below list. Whether there will be a similar impact on 12's, who can say. But, just looking at inventory and seeing cars built in January and February of '12 still available, well, it's just about '13, and selling one in the next few months is tricky, especially in the northeast and midwest. I'm not trying to predict anything, just recounting what others have said they've paid. So, a 2011 that listed for $78k/$79k, with 2-4k miles would seemingly sell for high $50's to low $60's. It seems that some people paid as little at mid-$50's and some as much as mid $60's, some even got these prices for brand new cars, and some were lightly used.

I think the only point was that I can appreciate how difficult it is to be a dealer. If a brand new or nearly new 2011 that listed for $78k, can be reasonably bought for $63k, it's tough to sell a brand new '12. While there were improvements, as there were with every year of the Elise, unlike Porsche, BMW, etc. the basic drivetrains of Lotus cars - engine, brakes, transmissions, and suspensions, tend to stay the same. The S is clearly an upgrade, but a 2010 versus a 2013 NA car - and I'm not discounting cosmetic, workmanship and other improvements - but like the 2005 and 2011 Elise (or the basic Exige to the 2011, once the original S became available), it's much the same car/driving experience. YMMV.

I agree with the final point, and I think that has been part of why Lotus had struggled to move cars for awhile until prices were able to come down to where they could offer to a slightly different market. I think the IPS cars have opened up a new market, and they move at a reasonable pace, while others get hung up. I think there are just two different types of buyers, those that come in wanting the 10 or 11 for a reasonable price, or those who come in wanting a very specific 12 or 13 regardless of cost, because for them the cost isn't so much of a factor. In my ideal world, if I had the means, I would swap my 10 for a 13 manual car, despite the fact that I love my car, because of the many minor improvements.

It will be interesting to see hwo the cars continue to sell-if you look at boxsters/caymans for example, a loaded one bumps 90k or higher, but 2 years later they're selling in the high 30s for high mileage examples or more typically mid to low 40s. Obviously Pcars sell at a much different rate, but unfortunately for Lotus this economy isn't helping them much, nor is their internal turmoil.

Another interesting note is just how many Evora owners don't even get on the Forums, but are happy with their cars. 800ish sold, but we clearly have maybe 80-100 active members on this forum that own Evoras, and that is being generous. So getting a snapshot of what they paid would definitely fluff up the info.

[Allan Gibbs]

Originally Posted by FrankM

why is the price of the used Evoras going down so fast , there not holding the value like the Elise and exige do .

5-6 years ago we were talking about how little value the Elise and Exige held and how most people got out of it after less than a year. Once they hit around $30k, they started holding their value. The same thing will happen with the Evora.