06+ DBW Hydra Standalone ECU Coming Soon!!!

[GTsRasta]

For sh*ts and giggles, I sent this email out to Hydra. It took them FOREVER to come out with the 03-05 DBW Celica GTS harness, so I thought I'd ask what was the holdup with the Lotus version. Here was my email reply:

We are working on the PNP harness as we speak. As soon as we get that sorted out, we will release one for the 06 Lotus.

Best Regards,
Andrew Nam
Quantum Performance Development LLC
Hydra EMS America
Tel: 510-870-5237
Fax:510-740-0911
www.hydraems.com

Their 05 unit, as used by PERRIN, costs less than $2,000. This DBW unit should only be a couple hundred more tops, which would still end up being way cheaper than going with the EFI.



Whether you boost or not, this would be a great way to improve power, like PERRIN has proved, so as long as you have a good Hydra tuner on standby. It can also detect knock, and be switched out back to your stock ECU or piggyback tuned ECU if you need to pass inspections as well.
What do you guys think?

[PERRIN]

Good stuff! Make sure you bug them every couple of weeks! Also make sure you explain the EFI solution, and how much it costs! That will motivate them!

[Lotus F1]

Why does it seem so hard to find really good tuners with this ECU... Is it because its not known as well as others?

[PERRIN]

Its well known in other car worlds, but not the Toyota or Elise relm. Tim bailey of Surgeline tuning is as familiar as i am with them and he flies all over the place to tune cars. You might contact him.
Tim@surgelinetuning.com

[GTsRasta]

Originally Posted by PERRIN

Good stuff! Make sure you bug them every couple of weeks! Also make sure you explain the EFI solution, and how much it costs! That will motivate them!

Haha, naw. I posted this up for the Lotus community to do that for themselves .

I already got my two standalone ECU options now (custom Apexi Power FC harness or Hydra), so I'm good.

[kortik]

so who is this Tim at surgeline?
does he have a website. any dyns showing his tunes w/Hydra and 2zz etc...
Perrin do you know?

[Darth G-F]

GtsRasta, I think it's time for you to go buy an Elise. When you're buggin vendor about EMS for a car you don't own and obviously, haven't started to mod yet, you know you need professional advice. In this case I think only a Lotus dealer will put you out of your misery.

I know many people gave you a hard time in the past for hanging around cheering us up from your Celica world and I never said anything. But man, I don't know if I should thank you for the info, or pity you for wanting an Elise so badly...

Why don't you just go out and buy the damn car?

[GTsRasta]

Err...I'm a pre-med college student. Hence, the college friendly 2zz powered Celica GTS. This will be my test bed until I can get a Lotus later on in life .

And if you think the differences are to great, I beg to differ. The Lotus ECU isn't as much of a mystical box as many have drawn it out to be. Granted, it is more complicated than the Celica GTS ECU through charlie's posts, but I made a MYTH/TRUTH thread that fleshed out what exactly happens if you put bolt ons to the stock Lotus ECU. Header gains WILL make power and MAINTAIN power over time towards the particular RPM range it decides to focus on (4-2-1 Header = Low-Midrange Gains, 4-1 Header = Mid-Top End Gains) JUST LIKE THE CELICA GTS ECU. Also, exhaust gains WILL make power and MAINTAIN that power just like the Celica GTS ECU. Lastly, although intake gains are on a toss up for your ECU's, I've yet to see a dyno where intake gains were lost throughout the whole 2nd cam that needs more VE for more power. So just like the Celica GTS ECU, intakes generally lose power in the low-midrange, but gain power in the top end. And as charlie stated, it IS be possible for an intake to make gains if it's designed properly.

All in all, a tuned 2zz in a Lotus will make the similar numbers in a similar Celica GTS setup, especially if there's a standalone ECU tune. The Emanage Ultimate (kverges), Apexi Power FC (sleepless), and the Hydra (PERRIN) ALL have been successfully mated to great Lotus vehicles. Where are the Celica/Lotus differences now? Am I missing something?

The only difference between the Celica guys and you guys are that you guys want to sit on reflashes and call it a day for that extra factory'esque safety margin. As much as I respect reflashes and all of their glory for these exact reasons, I'd still rather go on the datalogg and street/dyno tune route for optimal power on my Celica GTS, and bring that 2zz tuning experience over to a Lotus when I'm financially ready. Some people feel that reflashes make your car run better in the long run, others say custom tunes from engine management units is the way to go for when you add on new mods. I'd rather have full control with the later, but that's my preference. Thus, my suggestion for a EMS to you guys.

[charliex]

I'd say it has little to do with the hardware/ecu you use, it all comes down to the ability of whomever tuned the reflash/standalone etc, and availability of tuners/information.

Standalones are better for tweakers who like to change and have gadgets, reflashes are good for people who just want something that works with minimal fuss, they might gain a few HP with a custom tuned solution (without hardware changes), but thats only really going to matter on a dyno sheet anyway.

Its not just the ecu that people talk about as black art, its tuning itself, which in turn leads to the mythical status of these things, few people say they don't know something so any oddness is attributed to the ecu, most ecu's are pretty much all the same underneath, the differences are in the knowledge and software available, some may have a better build quality or different inputs.

Most people just focus on their needs and think others want that too, so thats what they'll evangelise, in reality thats just not how it works, everyone has different goals, having lots of choices is whats important.

[Darth G-F]

+1

[GTsRasta]

I agree 100%. If I was to get a high end sports car, like the new GT-R, a BMW, or an Audi, I'd go with a safe reflash all the way.

It sure must have been hard for you to put together your tuning software. Reading up the complexity of PROMS, early chip modding, fuel tables, TPS functions, etc...gave me a headache!!!

[kortik]

so who is this Tim at surgline?

[PERRIN]

www.surgelinetuning.com
Tim has been tuning cars for a long time. A long long time!

[kortik]

I emailed him but no response. does he know anything about 2zz and Hydra? especially N/A 2zz tunning?

[GTsRasta]

Lookey at what's "under development" on the Hydra EMS redesigned site:

Hydra EMS :Applications:

06 Mazda Miata

06 Lotus Exige

08 Mitsubishi EVO X

It's coming...