Attempting to fix heatsoak, re-flash needed?

[jah29]

Like many I've been frustrated with the heat soak of the intercooler on my Exige S after a few laps on the track. I've decided I need to figure out how to "fix" this. Looking at all possible options: Fans, RLS, proAlloy, vision function intercooler, switching to the TVS and no intercooler, ... (I'm leaning toward a custom intercooler in the passenger air scoop, but haven't priced it yet.)

I'd like to get the Gotham re-flash. At what point will cooling improvements require additional tuning. I'm not really looking for any extra power beyond what the gotham provides, I just want what it provides on lap one to still be there on lap 20.

Feel free to weigh in on the best way to stop the heat soak, but my main question is at what point will reduced temperatures coming out of the intercooler make standard tunes (gotham and stock) inadequate.

what do you guys think?

thanks,
justin

[charliex]

there are a couple of problems, if you reflash the gotham in and are a track guy with the stock a2a intercooler, it'll heaksoak pretty quickly.

but if you change the intercooler alone, you're likely to end up running lean, which will be too hot as well, i saw this on some cars at the weekend running just upgraded intercoolers, they were showing severe detonation.

so you'd need to go to a solution thats designed to go together.

[spectre]

What is that solution?

ProAlloy with Gotham?
Cup Intercooler?

I have been wondering about this also. I have seen a lot of people purchase the RLS but have not really heard of the results in use. Nor the ProAlloy I guess either. If you have those post some info. or maybe I need to dig further to find it...

[charliex]

the sc kits with ic's, vf, komotec etc are designed together.

i'd like a solution for it too, since i have an S 275.

[Thomasio]

Charlie - you yourself dyno'd cars with the RLS Intercooler that show a *richer* mixture than stock:

Originally Posted by shay2nak

This car doesn't only have header/sport cat/exhaust.

It also has the RLS intercooler and cup air box with K&N filter. To a lesser degree - catch cans. So my tune is not universal. I was running richer with the addition of the RLS intercooler in comparison to the stock intercooler.

I can't speak for the A2W alternatives, but our intercoolers do not lean the mixture.

[jah29]

thanks charliex. I was hoping you'd see my question.

Does your gotham tune assume the intercooler is going to get heat soaked on the track?

Is there some math that tells us the minimum temperature that your gotham tune would still be safe at? Then is the project to find a modification that only improves cooling that much?

Everyone who claims to be able to reduce heat soak claims they can add horsepower at the same time. I don't want anymore hp than the gotham provides, and I'd even stay at stock HP if that was the ONLY way to get consistent numbers. More horsepower is great, but I don't want to upgrade my fuel pump, clutch, injectors, (not to mention superchargers and chargecoolers) because my exige is dropping from 220 to 200 HP on lap two. 220-240 consistent hp is all I need until I can drive better.

thanks

[ZJChaser]

Originally Posted by spectre

What is that solution?

ProAlloy with Gotham?
Cup Intercooler?

I have been wondering about this also. I have seen a lot of people purchase the RLS but have not really heard of the results in use. Nor the ProAlloy I guess either. If you have those post some info. or maybe I need to dig further to find it...

pretty much every a2a will heatsoak. not because of poor IC design but simply due to lack of airflow to the IC. There are some setups out there with extra hoses feeding the IC some more air and there are some other ideas to significantly increase the amount of airflow to the radiator on the drawing boards. Another thing to look at would be the reverie mohawk, I only know of one car that installed it right but it was never tested to see if there was a noticable improvement.

The proalloy did have overheating issues but I think the most recent changes with the dual puller fans and the tiplle pass radiator have helped.

My setup PWR IC with custom PWR heatexchangers and radiator, has not been tested at full tilt on a hot day yet but on the street my IAT sits at ambient and actually acouple degree cooler than what the ECU sees at the TB! Once I get it retuned I'll give it some good track testing.

[LBC111]

Originally Posted by charliex

there are a couple of problems, if you reflash the gotham in and are a track guy with the stock a2a intercooler, it'll heaksoak pretty quickly.

but if you change the intercooler alone, you're likely to end up running lean, which will be too hot as well, i saw this on some cars at the weekend running just upgraded intercoolers, they were showing severe detonation.

so you'd need to go to a solution thats designed to go together.

Charlie,

What about something like a phenolic gasket (Hondata?) between the engine block and manifold, in combination with a pair of puller fans on the back of the intercooler?

[qball]

I have found that the two fans really help in pulling the air through and keeping temps down...

[mrcarcrazy]

alcohol injection is fantastic, but not sure how big of a tank you'd need for track use....

[EliseAtLeast]

It sucks to be an Exige S owner . You are better off with an Elise and then just go with the VF or TVS solution.

Whoever comes up with a simple solution that solves our heatsoak issue will be making a lot of money hint hint. There are so many great minds on this forum. Please give us a solution oh great one .

[EliseAtLeast]

Is it possible to have the intercooler offered by VF to replace our factory intercooler? The roof scoop will then just bring in air to cool the engine compartment I guess.

[LBC111]

Originally Posted by qball

I have found that the two fans really help in pulling the air through and keeping temps down...

What kind are you using?? Any pics also??

[EliseAtLeast]

Originally Posted by qball

I have found that the two fans really help in pulling the air through and keeping temps down...

They no longer have these fans for sale. At least not clearance price. SPAL USA Webstore - Clearance Items

[jah29]

Originally Posted by EliseAtLeast

Is it possible to have the intercooler offered by VF to replace our factory intercooler? The roof scoop will then just bring in air to cool the engine compartment I guess.

I was thinking along these lines. But mounting the intercooler on the passenger side, since the intake is on the drivers side. I'm assuming we could reverse the outlet on the supercharger and run a fairly straight shot towards the area behind the passenger scoop. The intake manifold faces this way so the return path should be fairly easy too. I don't know if it's better to get a new intercooler fabricated or use the VF one. Piping will still have to be done.

Anyway, so I started this thread to see what needed to be done tuning wise if we make such a substantial change to the intercooling system.

[charliex]

Originally Posted by Thomasio

Charlie - you yourself dyno'd cars with the RLS Intercooler that show a *richer* mixture than stock:



I can't speak for the A2W alternatives, but our intercoolers do not lean the mixture.

I think you might have misunderstood something somewhere, i have not dyno'd a stock car with your IC, however thats also part of the problem, the ecu expects them to be at a certain AFR so if the AFR's go rich, the corrections over compensates and eventually lean it out.

You can't just strap something on in a feedback loop and expect it to correct it properly.

A couple of people are building various bits n pieces, but so far i've yet to see a complete solution for the S.

[azmurciev12]

can't you just install a simple water injection system? i'm experiencing the same thing here in the philippines where temps are always very hot especially at the track. that's what i 'm planning to do but haven't discussed whether it is possible and beneficial. what do you guys think?

[spectre]

At what temp does it heat soak?

In winter/spring my temp is 181-185, summer it rises to 195-198, running temp on a hot day. Now if I'm waiting to go out on the track it can go into the 205-210 range but then goes back to the mid to high 190s. On those hot summer days I do feel a power difference at lower speeds.

[alexscotti]

Originally Posted by charliex

I think you might have misunderstood something somewhere, i have not dyno'd a stock car with your IC, however thats also part of the problem, the ecu expects them to be at a certain AFR so if the AFR's go rich, the corrections over compensates and eventually lean it out.

You can't just strap something on in a feedback loop and expect it to correct it properly.

A couple of people are building various bits n pieces, but so far i've yet to see a complete solution for the S.

charlie - you're the guy doing the tunes, so wouldnt a complete solution pretty much involve you?

seriously, is what you are saying, that messing with the ic in any way without a tune is not a good idea? i thought i heard of people happily running gotham + proalloy. not good?

[EliseAtLeast]

Originally Posted by alexscotti

charlie - you're the guy doing the tunes, so wouldnt a complete solution pretty much involve you?

seriously, is what you are saying, that messing with the ic in any way without a tune is not a good idea? i thought i heard of people happily running gotham + proalloy. not good?

I would like to know this also.

Charlie, what would your recommendation be in solving the heatsoak issue with our S? Ideally, the solution should be good enough so that we can even use a smaller pulley. Would replacing the stock intercooler with something like the RLS intercooler + your tune be enough or would we need a replacement intercooler in a different location (like VF) or maybe even an additional smaller intercooler to supplement our stock intercooler?