EFI Technology standalone?

[choi0706]

Originally Posted by mark.r

That is correct Mike. As 2-Y noted above DRS has been good to work with and it is still a work in progress. I worked with Kris remotely to get a fairly stable tune. One that allows me to enjoy the car as best as I can until Kris finishes his R/D on one last component that will allow us to control the throttle as oppose to the Lotus ECU controlling it. So for now the car drives great, it idles much better but not as good as stock, but the most annoying issue that we have not been able to tune out is a bit of throttle lag from a dead standstill. That is more to do with us not dyno tuning since I never physically flew Kris here. I did the tuning myself with him talking me through it remotely. Once the last component is complete I am looking to have him fly out to install it and do a final dyno tune.

care to explain this new mod? I've installed the EFI ecu on a 06 exige, I was told a tiny hole may help but I was unaware of a new mod from DRS..

[mark.r]

Originally Posted by choi0706

care to explain this new mod? I've installed the EFI ecu on a 06 exige, I was told a tiny hole may help but I was unaware of a new mod from DRS..

external Idle Air Controller, essentially does the same as the small hole in the throttle plate. Will (should, they way it's been explained to me) give the EFI full control over the throttle therefore allow us to uplug the DBW from the Lotus ECU.

What has been your thought/results with the '06 as far as idle/stalling/throttle response from a standsill with the EFI installed?

[Kris from DRS]

I'm late to read this, but might well chime in...

Hopefully this helps clarify a few things, and not instigate any debates.

The truth is there have been some customers (and all of these are DBW cars) that have complained about surging idle and occasional stalling. I want to stress that these are ALL cars that are NOT tuned by either DRS or Forcedfed. We (DRS) has created base maps to cover NA cars, SC, and Turbo cars and all for both Non-DBW and DBW cars.

The maps that are pre-installed in the ECUs here at DRS are simply versions of evolved maps from previously tuned cars. We are selling the system as ready to tune system by the end user, not a chip that alters the stock ECUs calibrations and therefore uses the stock ECUs methods of controlling all the parameters (not editable by the end user). We did not design or intend this system to be 100% ready to run at maximum potential as installed. We ALWAYS suggest dyno tuning and preferably by an experienced tuner.

Our system offers the end user a large amount of control, such as Closed-Loop boost control, Boost curves per gear, Closed-Loop Lambda control, VVT control for both timing and lift, and of course fuel and spark maps with very high resolution (800 load sites). And all of these features are adjustable by the end user, meaning that limits, conditions, set points, etc can all be determined by the end user for thier specific needs. However, we cannot reasonably account for all of these variables and create a "one size fits all" map that will be perfect for every single car in the world in every part of the world... for example the cars we tune here are in CA with mild climate. Some parts of the maps might need to be adjusted for someone in the North-Midwest this time of year...and the beauty is you can do that yourself with your laptop and software we already have pre-configured and all the base calibrations figured out for you too. No one customer is ever starting from scratch. And this leads to my next point.

When you buy a stand-alone, in the traditional sense, you are buying just that...a stand-alone system, not a stock replacement system. Hopefully someone reading this can relate. When I first started tuning cars with aftermarket engine management over 7 years ago I was starting from scratch...no base maps, no sensor calibrations, no info other than a pinout for the main connector, no pre-made wire harness, no forums with other guys that had the same parts on the same car, and no help over the phone from anyone. It can be a daunting task to tune an engine with such limited recources, and guess what that's pretty much how it still is today. Compare our Lotus ECU to a MoTec M400 and you'll find that the MoTec will cost more by 2-3 times by the time it is actually running in your car and it will be a start from scratch process. Why do I choose MoTec to compare our ECU to...well frankly b/c that is the closest thing on the market to fairly compare it to. Hydra, and others of the same level are not a fair comparison. They are not units assembled with Military spec componentry and do not offer professional level software.

Hopefully some of you current users of our system are appropriately satisfied with the current results, those of you who are not please be patient and contact DRS, Forcedfed or Blackwatch for tech support. What you will find more often than not is that it is usually a very simple stroke of a key or minor mistake made during the install (just happened recently) and your car will meet your expectations, as it should with a product like this. And to those of you who are sceptics...well have an open mind and eventually you'll appreciate our effort.

Also, to clarify the comment about EFI being an "off-shoot" of the other EFI. Not accuratly true. I want to explain, but I am not in the position to disclose the details. I will say that not one of them is an "off-shoot" of the other. There are those who know the history. And really, who cares?

Lastly, to the person who commented on his friend who had valves crashing. I have spoke to Sandy Wilkins several times and even met him in person at PRI. He knows that the ECU was not the cause of his valves crashing and statements like yours can unnecessarily make our product look bad with false acusations like this. I'll further explain, and I do not mean any disrespect with my description...Our ECU activates a solenoid with an electrical signal, the solenoid then allows for the oil to flow through the valve body, the result of the moving part is mechanical. The ECU is not magic that has the ability to defy the laws of physics and move a cam beyond its mechanical range. There was a mechanical timing issue and a result of a mechanical failure that caused those valves to crash...the owner of the car will agree.

What's new? What is going to help the current DBW customers and future customers? There are 4 options at the moment. 1. Casey or myself can tune your car and you will have a smooth idle, the car will run great, and you will be happy. 2. You can be patient and learn how to use your software and tune it yourself or have an experienced tuner help (and I'm not talking about some guy who will tell you what you want to hear, charge you a bunch of money and then blame his inability to really tune on the ECU or the software...I've already experienced that I am pretty good at weeding those people out) 3. You can purchase the IAC valve when it is ready for release or 4. You can purchase the DBW module to control the throttle 100%. This device is an external amplifier that uses an input to create an output that equates to full control of the throttle with the existing software. I want to stress that while the DBW module is a great feature and while the external IAC valve will be a good lower cost alternative these devices will offer different advantages and the IAC valve is really intended to work as a buffer...to increase the margin of error. It is the same premise that all OEM ECUs have. The factory cannot account for tuning fuel and spark maps perfectly for all conditions, winter, summer, high elevation, low elevation, etc... so they have devices in place to work as corrections. And that is what we are offering. This is whey the Non-DBW cars idle better, we have the stock IAC valve working in our favor.

If you had the patience and interest to read this, great. If not, I understand. If there are spelling errors, I typed it very fast. If you want to call me or email please don't hesitate.

Kris Valdez
Owner of DRS

[Casey]

Thanks Kris....well said as usual.

[mark.r]

Originally Posted by Kris from DRS

The truth is there have been some customers (and all of these are DBW cars) that have complained about surging idle and occasional stalling. I want to stress that these are ALL cars that are NOT tuned by either DRS or Forcedfed. We (DRS) has created base maps to cover NA cars, SC, and Turbo cars and all for both Non-DBW and DBW cars.

What's new? What is going to help the current DBW customers and future customers? There are 4 options at the moment. 1. Casey or myself can tune your car and you will have a smooth idle, the car will run great, and you will be happy. 2. You can be patient and learn how to use your software and tune it yourself or have an experienced tuner help (and I'm not talking about some guy who will tell you what you want to hear, charge you a bunch of money and then blame his inability to really tune on the ECU or the software...I've already experienced that I am pretty good at weeding those people out) 3. You can purchase the IAC valve when it is ready for release or 4. You can purchase the DBW module to control the throttle 100%. This device is an external amplifier that uses an input to create an output that equates to full control of the throttle with the existing software. I want to stress that while the DBW module is a great feature and while the external IAC valve will be a good lower cost alternative these devices will offer different advantages and the IAC valve is really intended to work as a buffer...to increase the margin of error. It is the same premise that all OEM ECUs have. The factory cannot account for tuning fuel and spark maps perfectly for all conditions, winter, summer, high elevation, low elevation, etc... so they have devices in place to work as corrections. And that is what we are offering. This is whey the Non-DBW cars idle better, we have the stock IAC valve working in our favor.


Kris Valdez
Owner of DRS

To back up what Kris said, my install was done locally and was more or less undriveable. It took lots of calls and emails to Casey and Kris to get it back on the road so I could even drive it. Furthermore, as he said FF/DRS can get your idle right. I am pretty happy with idle from warm up to sitting in traffic. That is a direct result of two other points Kris raised, 1. him working with me to get the baseline tune as best as we could remotely without physically putting it on the dyno and 2. me learning as much as I could about the software (although not that much) with his help. You have also heard me say that I sill have some stalling issues as well as some turbo lag but all that seems to throttle related . . . all of which Kris and I have spoken many times about. As a result I am waiting for the IAC and DBW as he explained above. I know he has been working hard and for quite sometime on those units. It will be worth the wait.

I think the key is to make sure you keep DRS/FF in the loop of any issues you maybe having so they can address those and make mention to other owners. Thanks to guys like Casey and Kris who put in the time and effort on these niche efforts.

[fzust]

Just to pile on the "Yay Kris!" bandwagon. The EFI TRANSFORMED my XP car. Understand what we are dealing with: Stock Motor except valvesprings and headstuds. 108Octane LEADED RACE GAS. 370CHP! Idles like a kitten. The power and complexity of the ECU is unreal. I expected to replace this motor after 1 season. It continues to run great. We have a custom anti-lag map that helps keep the turbo spooled while on the auto-x. It has multiple dependent variables running based on thottle position, load, timing, and the rate of change(derivative) of these variables. Kris manages this in his head!
The ECU gives you the ability to make changes, which is good, the idle can be sorted out pretty quickly. For more complex stuff, call up DRS or FF. You get what you pay for in both tuning and equipment.

[mark.r]

Quick little update . . . Kris sent me a new map last week and I hadn't had a chance to load it until Monday evening. I loaded the map with the car running which I like to do especially since we are trouble shooting idle related issues specifically as you can typically hear any noticeable change once the map completes the load process. I loaded this new map and much to my surprise the car went into what was the smoothest idle I've heard since prior to the install. It was very noticeable between the two maps. The next step was to go for a quick spin as it was late and I didn't have much time. The new map was very stable. I was trying to trick it into stalling or hunting by short stopping at intersections or stop signs since the transition from rolling to seting still is the toughest thing for the EFI to deal with in terms of the stock Lotus ECU. I could get it to hunt a couple of times for maybe a few seconds but then it would settle right back down to a pretty smooth idle at about 1000rpms. I notice that it now never drops below 1000rpms regardless while it used to dip down to 6 or 700 rpms sometimes. I did get it to stall a couple times the next day in bumper to bumper traffic on my way to work but that was as much my fault try to juggle low revs and the clutch. I am pretty happy with this new map as this has been by far the most compliant. I need more seat time with it now but it looks to be the one.

We are now in the process of doing the DBW module upgrade. I hope to have that completed in the next two weeks. That should really make things nice. I'll keep you updated on how that goes. Once again big Kudos to Kris and DRS for all the help and expertise on getting the Exige sorted.

[perryeyges]

I must say that I am a completley satisfied customer with the EFI unit and Casey's(forcedfed) apparent abilities to tune the car. I have experienced some surginging at idle, enought to kill the engine once in a while(seems to be more prevalent when not fully warmed up).


I have a question for Kris or Casey: Can I just plug in an EFI dash module to the existing EFI unit?

[Kris from DRS]

Originally Posted by perryeyges

I must say that I am a completley satisfied customer with the EFI unit and Casey's(forcedfed) apparent abilities to tune the car. I have experienced some surginging at idle, enought to kill the engine once in a while(seems to be more prevalent when not fully warmed up).
There can be slight adjustments to the warm up settings to help this too.


I have a question for Kris or Casey: Can I just plug in an EFI dash module to the existing EFI unit?

Yes, we have a data stream output in the "Option" harness. You just need to ask and you shall receive.
thanks,
Kris

[Kris from DRS]

Regarding other options: A lot of people might forget that the EFI system is not just an engine control solution, but can also serve the purpose of collecting engine data that is easy to interpret with the very powerful Analysis program. We can set these systems up to log lap times, create track maps, as well as all the engine sensor inputs.

You can also run a 3rd party dash display or expand the system to a chassis logger to gather even more data: Such as steering angle, brake pressure, G load, damper travel (and velocity), fuel strategy, wheel speed at all four corners, accel rate, and much more.

BTW - We will have the new improved, not to mention reduced price, EFI Dash displays available very soon. Advanced warning systems /w color change screen, programmable shift lights, multi-page data selectable by the driver, and a rugged CNC aluminum housing with black anodizing are standard features.

[perryeyges]

Kris,
I'm all ears. Unfortunatley my stock dash lights gave it up somewhere in the build process so I am keen on replacing it with one of the units you are talking about(the black anodize case would work in my car). I also would consider going with the alcantara MOMO wheel w-integral dash display.
What do the retail prices look like on either of these options? I have put a call in to John Modica but haven't heard back from him. I would be getting the unit through him as I did with the EFI stand alone.
I just got off the phone with John, he says he will cut me a screamin deal on one of the blue housing units with mil spec harness so I may just go that way..

[Kris from DRS]

If John is able to help you out on the old unit with the blue housing I would go for it. Those displays are very nice...the pics don't do them justice. FF has us build the system parts for them anyway, so either way you'll get taken care of. Once you get the dash from John just let us know so we can build your extension harness to plug into your existing EFI system. It's a simple install, simply run the thin wire harness under the plastic frame cover on the driver side and it plugs in on both ends.

I also recommend you send us your "OPTION" adpater harness, it is a modular part, so that we can add in the Oil psi, Oil temp, and Fuel psi connectors. The following channels are already in the system, speed, revs, boost, air temp, water temp, lambda, throttle, and many other channels the EFI has internally.

For more detailed info regarding the SW display and the loggers please call or email us here at DRS.

thanks.

[perryeyges]

Kris my interior is all removed so the install should be pretty easy..
Where does the thin wire plug into, the EFI box or into the stock inst cluster harness?

[Randy Chase]

I wish I had installed that dash (in hindsight). I believe Perry it connects to the EFI.

Question will be, what is the stock ECU still connected to once you have that done? Immobilizer still?

[perryeyges]

Originally Posted by Randy Chase

I wish I had installed that dash (in hindsight). I believe Perry it connects to the EFI.

Question will be, what is the stock ECU still connected to once you have that done? Immobilizer still?

Kris, Can the stock ECU be removed? I am still trying to remove the immobiliser. I have the instructions at home but have yet to try

[Kris from DRS]

Originally Posted by perryeyges

Kris my interior is all removed so the install should be pretty easy..
Where does the thin wire plug into, the EFI box or into the stock inst cluster harness?

you unplug the stock cluster and dont do anyting with those connectors, just tuck them out of the way.

Our harness has a mil-spec connector on it that mates to the dash sub-loom (also has the alarm reset and page change buttons on it). On the other side (firewall side) the connector plugs into a connector we add to your existing OPTION sub-loom. This is all plug-in, no cutting or splicing. Call me if you need help locating your OPTION sub-loom.

[Randy Chase]

Kris, to be clear please.... and it probably is, I just have to read it twice. ..... you can unplug the stock ECU? Both connectors??? And then... other than ballast, it performs zero function in the car and can be removed? Yes?

[Kris from DRS]

Originally Posted by Randy Chase

I wish I had installed that dash (in hindsight). I believe Perry it connects to the EFI.

Question will be, what is the stock ECU still connected to once you have that done? Immobilizer still?

Randy, it's never too late

the stock ECU remains to turn the fuel pump on and provide grounds for the stock relay module (Fred's favorite).

[Kris from DRS]

Perry,
If this car is turning into a race car i highly recommend pulling out the heavy, bulky and overall limited stock engine harness and replacing it with our complete mil-spec engine harness that has all the capabilities of the system ready in place. Our harnesses are much lighter, cleaner, and more durable. If you do this you can eliminate the stock ECU altogether. And if you ever needed to go back to stock you just reinstall the stock engine harness and ECU, nothing gets damaged in the process.

[Kris from DRS]

Originally Posted by Randy Chase

Kris, to be clear please.... and it probably is, I just have to read it twice. ..... you can unplug the stock ECU? Both connectors??? And then... other than ballast, it performs zero function in the car and can be removed? Yes?

the stock ECU still triggers the fuel pump and provides grounds for the relay module, unless you replace the stock engine harness with one of our mil-spec harnesses. our harnesses have thier own method of triggering the fuel pump, measuring fuel level, and providing inputs for other things like oil psi...etc...