EFI Tunning Tips Here

[iana]

Would like to see a spec and pricing for the EFI standalone and options, maps for FI Elise/Exige application.

[turbophil]

FWIW: I recently added more info on the EFI stuff on my website in the download center.
Here's a link for new users (careful, it's a PDF file): http://www.boefabrication.com/downloads/EFI%20Notes.pdf

and bits 'n pieces here:

BOEFabrication.com | Beyond Original Equipment

Best,

Phil

[elise/europa]

Phil, Kris, Other,

At the moment my car is running great, except...

I have hesitation on gas pedal during quick transition, seam accel decay constant. My basic set-up from Kris is different than the one from Phil, but the result is close the same, with slightly better result for the Kris one. At high rpm during downshift, it is working great. The trouble is more at low to mid rpm. As I can see, all factor to suit with RPM is set at maximum which is around 2. Same thing for temp factor. I feel that I need to put more fuel at low rpm, but don't have access to other factor to increase the fuel at low and mid rpm. Do I miss something. As is, it is probably something weird since all factor are set at maximum, ideally, it should be somewhere at middle? I run a Fujita air filter.

Any input will be welcome in order to be able to adjust accel differently for differents rpm.

Thanks

Marc

[Dave]

Originally Posted by elise/europa

Phil, Kris, Other,

At the moment my car is running great, except...

I have hesitation on gas pedal during quick transition, seam accel decay constant.

Marc,

Do you know if you have the latest firmware update from earlier this year? If not, this will likely eliminate any accel issue you're having. PM me your email address and I'll send it your way.

[robains]

Ahh, the Accel/Decel -- I got good info from Phil on this -- if you can monitor your TPS rate you'll notice it really doesn't change much even when you hit the throttle very quickly .. mine only goes from 0-5 (5 in extreme case, typically 0-3).

Since you have an 06, I'm assuming DBW. Your english is a little hard to understand so bare with me for any errors in translation.

Hesitation can be any number of issues, but usually it's related to a "hole" in your fuel map -- look in your Injection Map for any cells that have a large changes over the cells adjacent/close to them. I had a similar hesitation at lower rpm, but it turned out that a couple of cells were at 9.0+ where others around them were 5.0+ (should never be a need to increase fuel by that much across any adjacent cell) -- I was lead to the problem fuel map load site but looking at my data log and seeing where the hesitation happened -- used the load/rpm reference to locate the cell(s).

Another item to check for DBW is the Integral Timer setting under DC Motor section. If this value goes too low (below 2) it can cause oscillations in throttle and/or strange rapid transistion affects. If it is already at 2, you might want to try 3 (I believe Kris use 8 as his default).

Lambda Setpoints could cause this problem also, but sounds like you have touched those. Also check you Lambda calibration - are you wideband or narrowband? If wideband, who makes the sensor? Are you running the EFI DBW module?

Rob.


And as has been state, get the new Firmware if you don't already have it.

[elise/europa]

Oups, my car is a 06, but modified to be a DBC as a 05. And yes, I have the new firmware, thanks to Phil.

I saw that the TPS rate is very low, as you Robains.

At the moment, I am running in close loop with a AEM wideband, except for idle where I am running in open loop. The idle is better in open loop with my set-up.

I have the hesitation below 4000 rpm, not very bad, but not perfect.

At the moment, I'm just starting, as soon as I will have enought time, I will extract the lambda factor to adjust the fuel map. I will look closely the map.

But still, I am finding strange that all accel factor are just at maximum!

Thanks

[robains]

I'm open loop below 2200 also and yes idle is better.

As far as Accel -- Kris might want to chime in on this -- my understanding is that Accel is pretty limited and hence why Phil maxed everything out -- just not enough TPS Rate range to really do much with it.

Having said that, I'd look in your fuel map for hesitation issue and/or check your Lambda setpoints. It's not likely Accel/Decel would cause the hesitation. I don't know if AEM calibrations are different from NGK wideband, pretty sure they are (I believe Phil uses NGK). Kris can probably provide AEM calibrations.

Rob.

[turbophil]

Hey Marc,

One thing that may help you is to retard the cam timing a touch where your stutter is. In otherwords, make the VVT slope more gradual on those lower load and RPM cells. That would obviously be increasing the numbers on the VVT map (the range is between 15 and 55). Watch your fueling and timing after making that change. It may want to ping or lean out a bit in doing this so be prepared to make changes. You will likely need to make a movement of atleast 5ish across the trouble area to feel a difference...

Best,

Phil

Edit: Hey Rob, you just happen to be here at the same time!

[robains]

I just discovered last night that my Accel/Decel does indeed work. This might be specific to just DBW cars, not sure maybe Kris could clarify.

[Kris from DRS]

There has been a lot of discussion regarding accel settings between Phil and I. Here are my observations: Cars running the DBW controller have "snappier" response, I think most of this is due to the ability to change the pedal to throttle ratio. If you log the TPS rate at 100 Hz I have found as much as 16 Bits in a rapid throttle movement, and corresponding fuel injection ms as expected. I have NOT yet been able to determine consistent Bits generated by non-DBW throttle cars. I know Phil favors maxing out the rpm and temp corrections, but I have not found this to really work in the DBW cars. The only conclusion I can come up w/ at the moment is that non-DBW throttle sensors do not produce as high of a bit value as DBW throttle sensors.

The injector volume is also a variable. The ECU does not know the size of the injector, so is you take the same multiplier for a smaller injector the end result will be a leaner mixture.

One last comment, using Lambda sensors to diagnose accel is not entirely accurate. These sensors have an inherent delay, using the PID controls can help fine tune how the fuel map is affected by the closed-loop control.

Use the internal logger (if you have one) to monitor the fuel injection ms relative to throttle change. Also consider the airbox pressure while analyzing this data. If you do not have an internal logger you can use a scope to measure / graph injector pulse while manually opening the throttle rapidly.

[Kris from DRS]

Phil's suggestion to use the cam timing to control the smoothness of the transient throttle is absolutely correct. I have found only minor differences from car to car, depending on if its a TVS map, Exige S map, non-intercooled MP62, etc... But the concept still applies.

A retarded cam position that gradually decreases as load and rpm increase is the general idea.

A slight retard around the cam switch-over will help reduce the difference in cylinder pressure that occurs inherently and will result in a smoother pass thru the switch-over.

The end result of the new firmware has been smoother driveablity, better low end torque and increased power overall.

Kris

[robains]

Kris,

Thanks for the tips, I'm gonna go over my fuel injection ms and TPS rate with a 100 Hz logging.

Rob.

[E.D.]

solved, post deleted

[turbophil]

Well, I slaved over these screen shots, so I'll post 'em anyway

Click the little gauge icon and the select seven segments as the type of gauge and then right click it and change the channel of the gauge...

[turbophil]

To anyone with EFI or someone who may be getting it for some unearthly reason, I've been working on some general notes to help folks get started.

The first link on my DL page has the getting started PDF. Have a look... It's rough and a work in progress, so please bear with me

BOEFabrication.com | Beyond Original Equipment

Hope it helps,

Phil

Edit: attached PDF...

[Solo2Elise]

I am having high idling problem, 2800 or 1800 rpm, for many months. Casey @ FF helped me check several places but it never went away. The odd thing is he only experienced the problem once. To me, almost everytime I drive the car I see the problem.

Last Sat I picked up my car from FF, on the way home idle again stucked at 2k rpm. I then decided to head back to FF. After driving 12 miles back, it stayed @ 2k without any sign to drop back to normal as used to be which was good so Casey was able to see the problem and used his laptop to check EFI. Right after Power to Win synchronizing with EFI, the idle immediately dropped back to normal. Casey now realizes why he only saw the problem once and that one time he didn't have his laptop hooked up with EFI. To me, I never hooked up a laptop with EFI so it happens all the time.

PM'd Kris and he is going to ask EFI about this strange problem. I am hoping this mystery can be resolved soon so I can entirely enjoy the FF turbo kit.

[robains]

Do you have data logging at the time of this event?

Since you are non-DBW, assume your idle screw has not come loose? Have you also checked that nothing is physically blocking the return motion of the throttle? I'm DBW, but I assume you non-DBW folk have a throttle cable, so it might be getting caught up somewhere (kink, melted, excessive bend). Does stabbing the throttle make any difference?

Rob

[GetBoost]

I've seen that happened one time on my car before. Idle normally around 1.2K and I allowed the engine to warm up before driving off. Within 1 block, idle jumped and got stuck around 2-3K rpm. Jabbing the throttle did not bring it down. I turned around and head back. Just as I got to my driveway, it dropped back to 1.2K and everything was fine. I thought it was my supercharger bypass valve being stuck. I was going to suggest you checking that, but I see you have a turbo. I guess you have ruled out a vacuum leak. Phil or Kris would know more, but there's probably a way to determine if there was a vacuum leak by the seeing if EFI is compensating for excessive air such as the short term fuel trim (Lambda Corr).

[Solo2Elise]

Originally Posted by robains

Do you have data logging at the time of this event?

Since you are non-DBW, assume your idle screw has not come loose? Have you also checked that nothing is physically blocking the return motion of the throttle? I'm DBW, but I assume you non-DBW folk have a throttle cable, so it might be getting caught up somewhere (kink, melted, excessive bend). Does stabbing the throttle make any difference?

Rob

When the problem occurs, I didn't hook up laptop with EFI. Once Power to Win synched with EFI, idle immediately dropped. The idle screw is in perfectly. Throttle cable, IAC, throttle body has been checked/cleaned/replaced. No, stabbing throttle does not help.

I also think it might have a leak somewhere. Maybe fuel injector leak?

[robains]

Fuel leak? Do you smell fuel? Vacuum leak maybe - those can be a PITA to isolate.

Symptoms for fuel injectors seals not seated right or going bad is usually a on throttle hickup/buck, doesn't usually affect idle unless the FI seals are really bad.

So Casey hooked up his laptop?? Confused -- who loaded PtoW and did the synch with EFi? In "default" case, EFi ECU's current configuration will overwrite whatever is on the laptop when you connect to the ECU -- it should prompt you with a selection of overwrite options if the laptop file is not the same as what is loaded in the EFi ECU.

What version PtoW is being used and what version firmware do you have? You can get the laste PtoW from Phil's site. PtoW should be 7.1.11 -- but I believe you Turbo folks use a different EFi firmware. What is the checksum value for your firmware?

Also, how long have you had this problem?

Rob.