EFI Tunning Tips Here - Page 3 - LotusTalk

slaughtr · 08-20-2008, 09:44 AM

Well I have to say thanks for all the help to Phil and Kris. With a combination of new maps and hints from you both, I've got a great base tune now for the car, a steady idle that doesn't stall with the a/c on, an extremely smooth second cam switch (with my car and map we chose 4800 RPM), no oscillations at idle and so far no problems with reverting back to the less aggressive cam when I don't want it too. The next step, if I want, would be a dyno run with more precise adjustments.

I'm a very happy man right now.

Thanks again.

robains · 08-20-2008, 10:03 AM

It is great that Phil and Kris are helping us out. My car is running smoother in terms of throttle transition -- will know exactly how smooth after this weekends event at Thunderhill. Unfortunately I still have idle oscillation and stalling on the street map -- haven't tried the track map yet so I may need another visit to FF.

However, progress is being made and that's what this is all about. I feel confident that Kris/Casey can get everything fully sorted.

Dave · 08-20-2008, 10:10 AM

And as for my EFI tune, still running fantastic. Ran 2 hard hours out in the country last night, what a blast and ZERO issues. Currently putting out 250WHP/160TQ, with loads of advance still in the bag. All this without any formal power tuning yet. Not going for the all-out here, and still should push a conservative 260+ with the 3.2" when done. I have a tuning session scheduled late September on a load bearing dyno to dial the maps in tight. Kris has been a huge help to me as well, and with the logging option installed, he can get complete data on my car in minutes via the internet...it's just too cool. If you want a solid self-tunable solution for the Elise, this is it.

turbophil · 08-20-2008, 01:55 PM

GReat news on all the above...

I mean it truly is fun to tinker with these tunes and continue to find way to safely tune our cars to perfection. Everytime you change a part on the car, whether it be a TB, airfilter, muffler, headers, boost, etc, you're changing the volumetric efficiency of the engine which means that you should/could change the tune to further perfect the pwer band of the car. While that fine tuning doesn't have to be done, you now have the option to do it. For me, it really helped to justify spending the money bolt-ons since I can now tune for them at my convenience

All this talk makes me want to go out and drive the car with the new intake a built for it 2 nights ago.... oh ya, and it doesn't have a MAF sensor to clutter things up so I was completely unrestricted in the type of intake I built (Not as fancy as Jim C's though- very nice Jim)... Why, becuase I can with the EFI!

Best,

Phil

Randy Chase · 08-20-2008, 01:59 PM

Good to read the positive stuff and not just some clown mindlessly slamming someone that dared to take a different path. The EFI and Kris @ DRS worked well for our purposes.

robains · 08-20-2008, 02:07 PM

Now you folks are making want to get this for my IQ3 ($359.00 - ouch) and start tuning

Problem is, I don't know jack about quality tunes, but hope to learn.

Casey · 08-20-2008, 02:57 PM

$359 is actually pretty fair for a wideband....and then you can integrate it into the EFI and utilize the Closed loop Lambda control to it's fullest potential.

robains · 08-20-2008, 03:11 PM

Casey, I'll get one if you teach me how to use/tune it.

turbophil · 08-20-2008, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robains

Now you folks are making want to get this for my IQ3 ($359.00 - ouch) and start tuning

Problem is, I don't know jack about quality tunes, but hope to learn.

I'd like to suggest the NGK AFX. Great little unit. Darksol and I both use it... HAs a display if you want to use it and it is it's own controller. Works great with EFI and that same output can be used for your new dash project to display AFRs...

Best,

Phil

slaughtr · 08-20-2008, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbophil

I'd like to suggest the NGK AFX. Great little unit. Darksol and I both use it... HAs a display if you want to use it and it is it's own controller. Works great with EFI and that same output can be used for your new dash project to display AFRs...

Best,

Phil

Where did you get it and how much, Phil?

robains · 08-20-2008, 04:06 PM

NGK AFX MSRP is $700+, but you should be able to buy one for about $340.

turbophil · 08-20-2008, 04:16 PM

ngk afx - Google Product Search

Looks like they can be had for sub 300 or so... I just used google or ebay to buy mine...can't remember which one, as I've slept many moons since then

Very reliable, robust, and easy to use...

Best,

Phil

jim-clayton · 08-20-2008, 04:36 PM

I have the NGK hooked up to my RacePak G2x. I had to purchase an extra
cable (200.00) from RacePak.

Kris from DRS · 08-23-2008, 02:10 PM

Hello all,
I've recently updated the support article. Please check it out at DRS Engine Control Support

Kris

dmh · 08-23-2008, 02:50 PM

From what I can ascertain from this thread it seems that some people might have this EFI ecu installed on their street car.

However, ecus like EFI and Motec are for off-road/track use only. Do terms such as legal, OBDII, CARB, and drivablity ring a bell?

EFITechnology

I'm all for race application standalones as they circumvent all the OBDII limp mode nonsense. And that is why no one has taken Grand Am up on their 200 pound weight savings for running the stock ecu.

But to promote this towards street applications is not wise nor ethical.

turbophil · 08-23-2008, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmh

From what I can ascertain from this thread it seems that some people might have this EFI ecu installed on their street car.

However, ecus like EFI and Motec are clearly for off-road/track use only. Do terms such as OBDII, CARB, and drivablity ring a bell?

EFITechnology

I'm all for race application standalones as they circumvent all the OBDII limp mode nonsense. And that is why no one has taken Grand Am up on their 200 pound weight savings for running the stock ecu.

But to promote this towards street applications is not wise.

OBDII and CARB are not an issue in KS... Plus, the folks that I know that have piggy backs or Standalone in conjunction with the stock ECU for instance, simply unhook them and limp them to smog stations. All they do (around here anyway) is check for codes and let you on your way. I know of both turbo cars and SC'ed cars that do this. The EFI allows you to go back to the stock ECU is a matter of minutes...

BTW- Got new dyno figures today. Did just smidge of fuel tuning after installing intake... stay tuned...

Best,

Phil

turbophil · 08-23-2008, 04:02 PM

Ok- I had about 45 minutes to buz up to the dyno today. I built a simple intake which is simply a KN cone on the end of a 3" pipe with a bracket. No provision for MAF, since we don't need it... I wanted to see if the new intake made for any add'l power and/or leaned the car out... Wow, it makes a nice difference! It should be noted that my last dyno with the stock box also had a pretty dirty green filter, so this may not be a super fair comparison...

Of the 4 plots to follow, The first one shows the pulls before and after I tuned for the intake. Notice the AFRs. I added about 5% fuel to the tune which brought the AFRs back to where I like them...

I also posted up another few graphs comapring the EFI tune to a Darksol's car which has bolt on mods similar to mine, but has the Katana tune. I focus my tuning or torque, so I posted a graph up comparing the TQ.

Check out the vertical cursor on the graphs indicating the hp/tq/AFRs throughout the run. 15ft/lbs more torque through much of the rev band after cam switch

Also Notice that I only rev 2 8300. When I'm at 8300 (my redline), I'm at 241whp while the Dave's Katana is at 224whp... He continues to rev till 8500 and runs to about 230whp... 200 more revs on my car may have taken it to about 250whp all the time while running a "safer" AFR...

Tuning isn't for everyone, but if you're interested in learning more about your car and taking complete advantage of the add'l volumetric efficiency of your bolt on mods (headers, exhaust, intake, etc), tuning can be quite rewarding...Thought ya'll may find this interesting...

Best,

Phil

turbophil · 08-23-2008, 04:18 PM

I forgot to post this graph. This shows the gains from before and after the intake after I tuned for the new intake... THis is really neat

Best,

Phil

dmh · 08-23-2008, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbophil

OBDII and CARB are not an issue in KS... Plus, the folks that I know that have piggy backs or Standalone in conjunction with the stock ECU for instance, simply unhook them and limp them to smog stations. All they do (around here anyway) is check for codes and let you on your way. I know of both turbo cars and SC'ed cars that do this. The EFI allows you to go back to the stock ECU is a matter of minutes...

BTW- Got new dyno figures today. Did just smidge of fuel tuning after installing intake... stay tuned...

Best,

Phil

Kansas EFI users number...you're kidding, right?

turbophil · 08-23-2008, 06:02 PM

I guess the point is that there's plenty of ways to get around smog regs, as people do it all the time... Every car community I've been part of contends with it...

The above dyno's are enough of a reason for me to deal with it when it comes to KS

, as it's on the horizon

...

Cheers,

Phil

08-20-2008, 09:44 AM	#41 (permalink)
slaughtr Big head man Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Boise, Idaho Posts: 5,953 Images: 3	Well I have to say thanks for all the help to Phil and Kris. With a combination of new maps and hints from you both, I've got a great base tune now for the car, a steady idle that doesn't stall with the a/c on, an extremely smooth second cam switch (with my car and map we chose 4800 RPM), no oscillations at idle and so far no problems with reverting back to the less aggressive cam when I don't want it too. The next step, if I want, would be a dyno run with more precise adjustments. I'm a very happy man right now. Thanks again. __________________ My car both sucks and blows. Now with added all natural smoky goodness!

08-20-2008, 10:03 AM	#42 (permalink)
robains 2007 Exige S Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: CA, Bay Area Posts: 1,815	It is great that Phil and Kris are helping us out. My car is running smoother in terms of throttle transition -- will know exactly how smooth after this weekends event at Thunderhill. Unfortunately I still have idle oscillation and stalling on the street map -- haven't tried the track map yet so I may need another visit to FF. However, progress is being made and that's what this is all about. I feel confident that Kris/Casey can get everything fully sorted. __________________ '07 Exige S (Track Pack & LSD) + EFi 550ci injectors + Mahle 9:1 + DRS Port + SuperTech Valves + Weapon R Header + 2.9" pully + TODA Clutch + FF Engine Damper + RLS IC + Greddy catch cans + opened roof slot + RTD brace + Milled steering arms + Larini 8" + FF air intake + Moroso oil pan + Ultradisc 2 piece front/rear + Reverie 1650mm wing + ReVerie front splitter + IQ3 Dash + 4pt ASM + Pioneer AVIC-N2 nav + rear camera + RAC monolites 888s 195/225 + Lotus LSS Hoosier R6 205/225 @ 1921 lbs

08-20-2008, 10:10 AM	#43 (permalink)
Dave Mods are good for you Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,945	And as for my EFI tune, still running fantastic. Ran 2 hard hours out in the country last night, what a blast and ZERO issues. Currently putting out 250WHP/160TQ, with loads of advance still in the bag. All this without any formal power tuning yet. Not going for the all-out here, and still should push a conservative 260+ with the 3.2" when done. I have a tuning session scheduled late September on a load bearing dyno to dial the maps in tight. Kris has been a huge help to me as well, and with the logging option installed, he can get complete data on my car in minutes via the internet...it's just too cool. If you want a solid self-tunable solution for the Elise, this is it. __________________ 2008 Solar S240 Exige 2005 Saffron Elise - BOE TVS Supercharger 291WHP w/ EFI Engine Mgmt

08-20-2008, 01:55 PM	#44 (permalink)
turbophil Plug Whisperer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kansas City/ Overland Park Posts: 2,544 Images: 6	GReat news on all the above... I mean it truly is fun to tinker with these tunes and continue to find way to safely tune our cars to perfection. Everytime you change a part on the car, whether it be a TB, airfilter, muffler, headers, boost, etc, you're changing the volumetric efficiency of the engine which means that you should/could change the tune to further perfect the pwer band of the car. While that fine tuning doesn't have to be done, you now have the option to do it. For me, it really helped to justify spending the money bolt-ons since I can now tune for them at my convenience All this talk makes me want to go out and drive the car with the new intake a built for it 2 nights ago.... oh ya, and it doesn't have a MAF sensor to clutter things up so I was completely unrestricted in the type of intake I built (Not as fancy as Jim C's though- very nice Jim)... Why, becuase I can with the EFI! Best, Phil __________________ \| '05 GG LSS Elise \| A Track Chariot \| BOE ClamHinge \| BOE TVS SuperCharger 280whp/180wtq \| EFI Standalone Engine Management \| BOE Fuel Surge System \| BOE Lotus Tow Package See my car at BOE Fabrication: www.boefabrication.com *----->Last Updated: 9/25/2009* If something ain't worth doing right, it ain't worth doing... *Whoever thought working on a Lotus is hard, clearly hasn't tried it. Pick up a wrench and get some grease under your nails*

08-20-2008, 01:59 PM	#45 (permalink)
Randy Chase Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: San Diego and where ever the roads lead Posts: 28,172 Images: 761	Good to read the positive stuff and not just some clown mindlessly slamming someone that dared to take a different path. The EFI and Kris @ DRS worked well for our purposes. __________________ [b]* V E R I T A S * A E Q U I T A S [/b] We have been feeling the buzz since 2002 2006 Noble M400. Getrag tranny, Quaiffe LSD, Hinged clams. Duratec dual turbo V6. Hoosier 315-18 tires. 2350 pounds. Over 500hp. Track weapon. 2009 Rossion Q1. [color=orange]Monaco Orange. [/color]Wing. Black leather/Alcantara with orange stitching. The street car. In build: 2009 Toniq R (300whp? 1100 pounds?). [color=orange]Chrome Orange. [/color] Lexus GX-470 tow vehicle. [color=blue]“Busy at times off the forum and scary* actually off the Internets. So I may not see your pm or emails for a while"[/color]

08-20-2008, 02:07 PM	#46 (permalink)
robains 2007 Exige S Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: CA, Bay Area Posts: 1,815	Now you folks are making want to get this for my IQ3 ($359.00 - ouch) and start tuning Problem is, I don't know jack about quality tunes, but hope to learn. __________________ '07 Exige S (Track Pack & LSD) + EFi 550ci injectors + Mahle 9:1 + DRS Port + SuperTech Valves + Weapon R Header + 2.9" pully + TODA Clutch + FF Engine Damper + RLS IC + Greddy catch cans + opened roof slot + RTD brace + Milled steering arms + Larini 8" + FF air intake + Moroso oil pan + Ultradisc 2 piece front/rear + Reverie 1650mm wing + ReVerie front splitter + IQ3 Dash + 4pt ASM + Pioneer AVIC-N2 nav + rear camera + RAC monolites 888s 195/225 + Lotus LSS Hoosier R6 205/225 @ 1921 lbs

08-20-2008, 02:57 PM	#47 (permalink)
Casey Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 554	$359 is actually pretty fair for a wideband....and then you can integrate it into the EFI and utilize the Closed loop Lambda control to it's fullest potential.

08-20-2008, 03:11 PM	#48 (permalink)
robains 2007 Exige S Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: CA, Bay Area Posts: 1,815	Casey, I'll get one if you teach me how to use/tune it. __________________ '07 Exige S (Track Pack & LSD) + EFi 550ci injectors + Mahle 9:1 + DRS Port + SuperTech Valves + Weapon R Header + 2.9" pully + TODA Clutch + FF Engine Damper + RLS IC + Greddy catch cans + opened roof slot + RTD brace + Milled steering arms + Larini 8" + FF air intake + Moroso oil pan + Ultradisc 2 piece front/rear + Reverie 1650mm wing + ReVerie front splitter + IQ3 Dash + 4pt ASM + Pioneer AVIC-N2 nav + rear camera + RAC monolites 888s 195/225 + Lotus LSS Hoosier R6 205/225 @ 1921 lbs

08-20-2008, 04:06 PM	#51 (permalink)
robains 2007 Exige S Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: CA, Bay Area Posts: 1,815	NGK AFX MSRP is $700+, but you should be able to buy one for about $340. __________________ '07 Exige S (Track Pack & LSD) + EFi 550ci injectors + Mahle 9:1 + DRS Port + SuperTech Valves + Weapon R Header + 2.9" pully + TODA Clutch + FF Engine Damper + RLS IC + Greddy catch cans + opened roof slot + RTD brace + Milled steering arms + Larini 8" + FF air intake + Moroso oil pan + Ultradisc 2 piece front/rear + Reverie 1650mm wing + ReVerie front splitter + IQ3 Dash + 4pt ASM + Pioneer AVIC-N2 nav + rear camera + RAC monolites 888s 195/225 + Lotus LSS Hoosier R6 205/225 @ 1921 lbs

08-20-2008, 04:16 PM	#52 (permalink)
turbophil Plug Whisperer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kansas City/ Overland Park Posts: 2,544 Images: 6	ngk afx - Google Product Search Looks like they can be had for sub 300 or so... I just used google or ebay to buy mine...can't remember which one, as I've slept many moons since then Very reliable, robust, and easy to use... Best, Phil __________________ \| '05 GG LSS Elise \| A Track Chariot \| BOE ClamHinge \| BOE TVS SuperCharger 280whp/180wtq \| EFI Standalone Engine Management \| BOE Fuel Surge System \| BOE Lotus Tow Package See my car at BOE Fabrication: www.boefabrication.com *----->Last Updated: 9/25/2009* If something ain't worth doing right, it ain't worth doing... *Whoever thought working on a Lotus is hard, clearly hasn't tried it. Pick up a wrench and get some grease under your nails*

08-20-2008, 04:36 PM	#53 (permalink)
jim-clayton Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Fort Lauderdale Florida Posts: 1,625	I have the NGK hooked up to my RacePak G2x. I had to purchase an extra cable (200.00) from RacePak. __________________ 2005 Elise Storm Titanium

08-23-2008, 02:10 PM	#54 (permalink)
Kris from DRS Dynamic Racing Solutions Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: La Habra CA Posts: 339	Hello all, I've recently updated the support article. Please check it out at DRS Engine Control Support Kris

08-23-2008, 02:50 PM	#55 (permalink)
dmh Republic to Thugocracy Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 707	From what I can ascertain from this thread it seems that some people might have this EFI ecu installed on their street car. However, ecus like EFI and Motec are for off-road/track use only. Do terms such as legal, OBDII, CARB, and drivablity ring a bell? EFITechnology I'm all for race application standalones as they circumvent all the OBDII limp mode nonsense. And that is why no one has taken Grand Am up on their 200 pound weight savings for running the stock ecu. But to promote this towards street applications is not wise nor ethical. __________________ "This is the moment when we must come together to save this planet. Let us resolve that we will not leave our children a world where the oceans rise and famine spreads and terrible storms devastate our lands." Community Organizer and Chief Obama...now intervening with natural occurrences! Last edited by dmh : 08-23-2008 at 05:54 PM.

08-23-2008, 04:02 PM	#57 (permalink)
turbophil Plug Whisperer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kansas City/ Overland Park Posts: 2,544 Images: 6	Dyno Plots Ok- I had about 45 minutes to buz up to the dyno today. I built a simple intake which is simply a KN cone on the end of a 3" pipe with a bracket. No provision for MAF, since we don't need it... I wanted to see if the new intake made for any add'l power and/or leaned the car out... Wow, it makes a nice difference! It should be noted that my last dyno with the stock box also had a pretty dirty green filter, so this may not be a super fair comparison... Of the 4 plots to follow, The first one shows the pulls before and after I tuned for the intake. Notice the AFRs. I added about 5% fuel to the tune which brought the AFRs back to where I like them... I also posted up another few graphs comapring the EFI tune to a Darksol's car which has bolt on mods similar to mine, but has the Katana tune. I focus my tuning or torque, so I posted a graph up comparing the TQ. Check out the vertical cursor on the graphs indicating the hp/tq/AFRs throughout the run. 15ft/lbs more torque through much of the rev band after cam switchAlso Notice that I only rev 2 8300. When I'm at 8300 (my redline), I'm at 241whp while the Dave's Katana is at 224whp... He continues to rev till 8500 and runs to about 230whp... 200 more revs on my car may have taken it to about 250whp all the time while running a "safer" AFR... Tuning isn't for everyone, but if you're interested in learning more about your car and taking complete advantage of the add'l volumetric efficiency of your bolt on mods (headers, exhaust, intake, etc), tuning can be quite rewarding...Thought ya'll may find this interesting... Best, Phil Attached Images __________________ \| '05 GG LSS Elise \| A Track Chariot \| BOE ClamHinge \| BOE TVS SuperCharger 280whp/180wtq \| EFI Standalone Engine Management \| BOE Fuel Surge System \| BOE Lotus Tow Package See my car at BOE Fabrication: www.boefabrication.com *----->Last Updated: 9/25/2009* If something ain't worth doing right, it ain't worth doing... *Whoever thought working on a Lotus is hard, clearly hasn't tried it. Pick up a wrench and get some grease under your nails*

08-23-2008, 04:18 PM	#58 (permalink)
turbophil Plug Whisperer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kansas City/ Overland Park Posts: 2,544 Images: 6	Oh ya--- I forgot to post this graph. This shows the gains from before and after the intake after I tuned for the new intake... THis is really neat Best, Phil Attached Images __________________ \| '05 GG LSS Elise \| A Track Chariot \| BOE ClamHinge \| BOE TVS SuperCharger 280whp/180wtq \| EFI Standalone Engine Management \| BOE Fuel Surge System \| BOE Lotus Tow Package See my car at BOE Fabrication: www.boefabrication.com *----->Last Updated: 9/25/2009* If something ain't worth doing right, it ain't worth doing... *Whoever thought working on a Lotus is hard, clearly hasn't tried it. Pick up a wrench and get some grease under your nails*

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08-23-2008, 06:02 PM	#60 (permalink)
turbophil Plug Whisperer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kansas City/ Overland Park Posts: 2,544 Images: 6	I guess the point is that there's plenty of ways to get around smog regs, as people do it all the time... Every car community I've been part of contends with it... The above dyno's are enough of a reason for me to deal with it when it comes to KS, as it's on the horizon... Cheers, Phil __________________ \| '05 GG LSS Elise \| A Track Chariot \| BOE ClamHinge \| BOE TVS SuperCharger 280whp/180wtq \| EFI Standalone Engine Management \| BOE Fuel Surge System \| BOE Lotus Tow Package See my car at BOE Fabrication: www.boefabrication.com *----->Last Updated: 9/25/2009* If something ain't worth doing right, it ain't worth doing... *Whoever thought working on a Lotus is hard, clearly hasn't tried it. Pick up a wrench and get some grease under your nails*