EFI Tunning Tips Here

[turbophil]

The "official" measurment is from the peak of the ribs the belt rides on.... not to be confused with outside lip of the pulley...

-P

[Kris from DRS]

Originally Posted by robains

How is my post not relevant? It is perhaps a VERY important tip for all those interested in EFI tuning. Information is gained from both success and failures. My car was retuned by Casey and with assistance from you only 10 days ago. Is there any relationship between the tune and the failure, maybe or maybe not - but this information IS relevant.

I would have thought that someone at FF would have notice the excessive black/brown smoke coming from the exhaust. I don't see how the very recent retuned can be ignored. I do NOT appreciate you post telling me this is not relevant - and then to proceed and sell your "better" parts in the same post.

I would recommend you post a more consumer friendly post considering the money already spent. Your current post is pretty insulting.

Rob, I think you're emotions are causing you to misinterpret my post.

I have never met you, tuned your car, talked to you (other than thru these forums) or done anything to you otherwise to cause you to get upset with me. I certainly did not mean to insult you.

I understand you are upset that your car wasn't running right and has some sort of mechanical failure shortly after FF worked on your car, and I hope you work it out with them.

Rob, I was merely trying to help by informing you of what we offer so that you are aware of other options. There is a growing aftermarket for these cars, and ultimately that is to everyone's benefit. And yes, the parts I was mentioning are "better" for race use (regardless of who's ECU or pulley you are using).

Again, I sincerely meant to try to help, not provoke you to become more upset. With that said, if you discover what caused your mechanical issue is tuning related let me know if you would like my input (please also consider that I have never even seen your map).

Kris

[elise/europa]

Hello Turbophil and Kris,

I spent time to read the tips and also the link provided by Kris, interesting. At the moment, I am waiting for the EFI, should be shipped this week. I spend time also to play with the software supplied on EFI website.

In regards of the VANOS control, it is not clear for me. OK, the software I am using to learn is probably not the same than provided in the kit, and the VANOS constant are not the same, it is not VVL control available, but VVT control. As per your tips and information, the program provided for the Lotus is able to adjust the VVL, but not the VVT. On KRIS note, it is said that the table is on progress. On Turbophil, it is said that whatever you have the impression to adjust something, nothing have effect (something like that).

Now the question, if the software is not able to adjust the VVT, how it is managed?
Is it an internal code on the program, not managed by the software, but accessible for EFI programmer?
Since I am not a programmer, is it possible to imagine to play with that? When the software will be available to manage that, any date available? next winter, next summer, next year???

Regards

[turbophil]

I'll answer your question in Lay and then Kris can follow up with some more tech jargon

First and foremost, you're not likely missing out on much with the lack of full phase adjustment. My torque curve are smooth and consistant throughout, so don't sweat the update too much.

You have control over *when*, but not *how much* regarding the phase control (recall that phase is only on the intake cam). So if you swap cams, you can use the "when" component to better help tune your idle, etc. On forced induction cars in particular, the phasing mechanism appears to be much more fine tuning than big tuning. Again, all my dyno tuning shows that I'm not leaving much, if anything, on the table due to phase tuning...

The big power in the cam technology of our engines is found in the Lift (VVL) component. The audible notation we hear when the car is "on the cams" is the lift change (not phase or VVT). You have complete control over lift. It's both load and RPM based. Both cams change lift together.

All cam adjustments are made in the VANOS section of the software. I gather that EFI chose the term VANOS to describe the cam section of the software since BMW is their primary audience. Think of the VANOS tab as being the VVTL-i tab for all intents and purposes...

I think you're going to really "dig" the system.

A note about mods you should also do. Dump your stock intake system during the install!

There's good power and torque to be found with an aftermarket intake. Dave is running the Reverie intake I believe and makes great power. Jim made a nice homemade unit, as did I. If you need help with one, let me know. You should use a bigger inlet since there's no MAF to worry about anymore.

I have maps coming out my ears that you're welcome to use, as do the other guys.

Finally, you're going to have to drill and tap a hole in your intake manifold for the IAT. Dave and I did this with the greasey drill bit and tap method and it worked great. I sugges you do the same to save some work. Just go very slow and use plenty of grease. Took about 15 minutes to drill and tap the hole which beat the heck out of pulling the intake off...

Best,

Phil

Originally Posted by elise/europa

Hello Turbophil and Kris,

I spent time to read the tips and also the link provided by Kris, interesting. At the moment, I am waiting for the EFI, should be shipped this week. I spend time also to play with the software supplied on EFI website.

In regards of the VANOS control, it is not clear for me. OK, the software I am using to learn is probably not the same than provided in the kit, and the VANOS constant are not the same, it is not VVL control available, but VVT control. As per your tips and information, the program provided for the Lotus is able to adjust the VVL, but not the VVT. On KRIS note, it is said that the table is on progress. On Turbophil, it is said that whatever you have the impression to adjust something, nothing have effect (something like that).

Now the question, if the software is not able to adjust the VVT, how it is managed?
Is it an internal code on the program, not managed by the software, but accessible for EFI programmer?
Since I am not a programmer, is it possible to imagine to play with that? When the software will be available to manage that, any date available? next winter, next summer, next year???

Regards

[elise/europa]

Thanks Phil,

I understand right the fact of when for the VVL, and how the engine is built with only the intake cam adjustable timing available, and the cam change generating the power.

I agree with you that the timing does not change big thing.

My question was more theorical, if the software don't allow to play with it, where is the code. I am a curiuos guy... On the machine we are building at my job, many time the customer don't have access to few parameter since they are on the code, and not available on the interface.

In regards of the drilled hole on the intake, tha's mean that the kit is provided with a temperature sensor? I already have 1/8 pipe thread hole available, what is the hole required? It is good time to add hole now, my car is dismantle to change the broken clutch.

Regards

[turbophil]

Kris can better answer the code question...

Regarding the hole-- Yes, it comes with temp sensor. This way you can retard timing as your intake temps climb and importantly, post blower. Since you want to be able to pull timing as you see those blower temps climb so you have the most power you can get at all times and still be safe as the temps fly through the roof on the highway and at the track...

Best,

Phil

[turbophil]

Thought I'd post some pics of the plugs I just pulled this evening.

Setup Notes: Most recent tune I developed with the EFI standalone ECU, several hundred miles on these plugs, including 2 track sessions, 3.2" pulley, BOE air intake (there's not much to it really, tube and KN filter), Weapon R headers, Vonhep muffler, about 245whp and a very flat torque curve (the dyno is from earlier this summer), 91 octane gas, track safe tune with 24.5degrees total timing at 8.5psi boost...

I'm happy to share the map with anyone that wants it... There's surely some more left in this tune, but it will get somebody to a close starting point...

Things to notice:

-The set of 4 is burning near identical, as they should with this type of manifold. There is some valve shrouding which browns the plugs a bit, but that's not relevant...

-The 2nd plug is positioned in a way that you can see the advance mark in the electrode. It's the distinct color change on the plug. That is an approximate indicator that the timing is about right on this engine. Not a whole lot of room to advance the timing further without making a change to the VE (volumetric efficiency)....

-On the cut away plug you can see the mixture ring. This is a slightly fat tune- which is great for a track car. I would consider this plug perfect...We want 1-2mm of black at the base of the insulator and then taper off to white or very light brown throughout the middle to the tip of the insulator. This indicates a little safety up top but a lean enough cruise that we're still getting a good *efficient* cruise. In other words, the further down the insulator we observe, the more RPM and load is on the motor. The tip of the insulator indicates the cruise and part throttle mixtures, while the base indicates top end mixtures...

These plugs are just a bit hot, as indicated by the several burnt threads. We should really only have 3-4 burnt threads. That said, they're not grossly hot, as they read very well. This was a NGK 6 series heat range. I'll be replacing with a 7 and going back to iridium tipped plugs. I use the cheapy v-power plugs as you see here while developing the tune since I go through them quickly...

Thought some might find this interesting...

Best,

Phil

[Kris from DRS]

Nice work...keep sharing the knowledge

[mark.r]

Another EXCELLENT thread that I have just found since really diving back into the forum for the first time in months. Wish this was around a year ago when I was having all my issues. Although I still think some of my issues still need DRS' hands on "touch". Kudos to Phil, Kris, and everyone that has contributed. Keep it up guys.

[elise/europa]

Hi Turbophil,

I have some difficulty to find on the help menu where I can set the read out of the information of the engine like TPS, RPM, coolant temp when the car is running. I was able to configure the display, but not be able to see the read out. You will be please to tell me where I can find the info into the help.

Stupid tips:
- if you don't have a RS232 port on your computer, you should buy an adapter cable USB to RS232. You should see the port number given by your computer, and set the EFI according to the computer port number like COM4. Also, the stop bit and parity should match.
- The EFI needs to be power on to be accessible.

[turbophil]

In the engine display section on the right side of the screen... Right click one of your displays and change the "channel" YOu should be able to change those controls to any channel that you're interested in...

Also, shoot me your email via PM and I'll email you my map so that you have a good starting point... It may not be perfect but should be close...

Are you running wideband 02? If so, which one?

If not, let me know so that I can make the changes needed to the map for your 02... Or better yet, email me your map and I can get the 02 information I need off of your map and build a starter map for you...

Also, what pulley are you running?

Finally, you can call me at 913....................................244........ ....................................6999

and email is

phil at boefabrication dot com


Best,

Phil

Originally Posted by elise/europa

Hi Turbophil,

I have some difficulty to find on the help menu where I can set the read out of the information of the engine like TPS, RPM, coolant temp when the car is running. I was able to configure the display, but not be able to see the read out. You will be please to tell me where I can find the info into the help.

Stupid tips:
- if you don't have a RS232 port on your computer, you should buy an adapter cable USB to RS232. You should see the port number given by your computer, and set the EFI according to the computer port number like COM4. Also, the stop bit and parity should match.
- The EFI needs to be power on to be accessible.

[elise/europa]

Quick to answer.

I already have your program, and I just receive my EFI. I will start with the Kris set-up at the beginning. As I can see, you have lot more Spark advance.

In regards on my question, yes I am able to choise the channel I want, but they don't show the engine data on-line. Everything are not moving... I just don't know how to activate all channel shows on the screen. I did spend a lot of time to find, but more than 30 minutes... The question remain, how???

I still have the original pulley 3.4 inches. I purchased a 3.2, but it was designed for BWR, and the pulley offset is not OK. Do you know where I can buy a 3.2 for a Katana?

My O2 sensor is the AEM wideband, and the EFI is taking the output signal. I choice this set-up to have a gage in my dash, and I don't have the big set-up like you with a additional screen.

I am going step by step, and now it is a big step, my car is a 2006, just modified with a throttle body 2005 (by cable) and the EFI. A big change taking time to modify the harness.

Thank you for your phone, I took note of. I tried to reach DRS without success today, Friday...

[turbophil]

Ah, cool...

Try nonstoptuning.com for the pulley...

On the data controls, there's something wrong, as there's no turning them on. If the channel is set to something that it should see (like RPM, throttle, etc), it should just show up. If that's not the case, you may have tapped the wrong wire???

Best,

Phil

Originally Posted by elise/europa

Quick to answer.

I already have your program, and I just receive my EFI. I will start with the Kris set-up at the beginning. As I can see, you have lot more Spark advance.

In regards on my question, yes I am able to choise the channel I want, but they don't show the engine data on-line. Everything are not moving... I just don't know how to activate all channel shows on the screen. I did spend a lot of time to find, but more than 30 minutes... The question remain, how???

I still have the original pulley 3.4 inches. I purchased a 3.2, but it was designed for BWR, and the pulley offset is not OK. Do you know where I can buy a 3.2 for a Katana?

My O2 sensor is the AEM wideband, and the EFI is taking the output signal. I choice this set-up to have a gage in my dash, and I don't have the big set-up like you with a additional screen.

I am going step by step, and now it is a big step, my car is a 2006, just modified with a throttle body 2005 (by cable) and the EFI. A big change taking time to modify the harness.

Thank you for your phone, I took note of. I tried to reach DRS without success today, Friday...

[Dave]

I'm jumping in the middle here and I might have missed something, but maybe he doesn't have his upper and lower threshold limits set to an adequate scale for the particular data control? I think the default is 0-100 which gives no deflection on many sensors.

[elise/europa]

Strange...

I am able to see the data when I am on the chart, RPM as well as MAP, but on the screen with the gage... I will try something else tomorow.

Thanks for your help.

[turbophil]

Originally Posted by Dave

I'm jumping in the middle here and I might have missed something, but maybe he doesn't have his upper and lower threshold limits set to an adequate scale for the particular data control? I think the default is 0-100 which gives no deflection on many sensors.

Ah, good point!!!

[Kris from DRS]

Marc

I was in a couple long meetings yesterday and missed your call.

Looks like you got the car running fine. When usign Data Controls there are a few things you will need to set up initially, and once this is done you won't need to change it again.

If you prefer Temps in Deg C you will need to open the ECU channel menu found on the top tool bar (it's the icon that looks like a grey box w/ a pencil across it). Click on it and you will see a Channel Calibrations window appear.
Select Water temp and set the Sacale to 1.0 and the offset to -50 and this will set the temp to Deg C (same applies to all other temp sensors, except EGTs).

For Airbox pressure (used as MAP for forced induction cars) set the Scale to .375 and offset to 0 for the 3 Bar MAP sensor used with your kit. This way the value in the Data Controls will match the Acitve cursor in the Fuel and Spark Maps.

For Strip Charts you need to set the upper and lower limits that applicable to what you are trying to measure. You can adjust these paramters, as well as the time segment, to hone in on a specific sensor.

Kris

[elise/europa]

Kris, Phil,

The status at the moment: The car run pretty good, and it pull quite well, and by playing with the program, I can affect the idle, the spark timing, etc. The second cam engagement is smouth at 5000 rpm. But I still have few issues:

1- Hard starting, with tendance of reverse turning, like too much advance, I play with it, and move down to 12 degrees, better, but still hard, and needs many turns, and typically, I need to try 2-3 times to start.

2- Idle, the engine is turning sometimes at the right rpm (sometimes when I am connected), but mostly quite fast like 2500 rpm, I need to play more. I have play mechanically with the butterfly stop screw without big success. The idle is constant, without fluctuation.

3- I still not able to see the engine control, and at the moment, I guess that maybe it still on my computer a setting from the EFI software DEMO, and maybe I should re-install the software saying yes to change all existing files, but I am stressed to create a bug on my computer for all other application. Without that, it is quite bad to see if something wrong with TPS, MAP or anything else. Maybe I should buy a used old laptop just to play with the EFI, and not use my business computer...

I will try to go on a tuner this week, having experience with the EFI, and I will see.

I am not fully satisfy with the job I made, I purchased ECU 2005 plug from Repsolross, but I did not receive the engine side plug, and after, he never reply back, very cool.... and I could say that my set-up is temporary, but working.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by elise/europa

1- Hard starting, with tendance of reverse turning, like too much advance, I play with it, and move down to 12 degrees, better, but still hard, and needs many turns, and typically, I need to try 2-3 times to start.

2- Idle, the engine is turning sometimes at the right rpm (sometimes when I am connected), but mostly quite fast like 2500 rpm, I need to play more. I have play mechanically with the butterfly stop screw without big success. The idle is constant, without fluctuation.

3- I still not able to see the engine control, and at the moment, I guess that maybe it still on my computer a setting from the EFI software DEMO, and maybe I should re-install the software saying yes to change all existing files, but I am stressed to create a bug on my computer for all other application.

#1, go in under Fuel Injection/Fuel Constants and try increasing your cranking pulse. You might try 6000 or 7000.

#2, since the idle only does this on occasion, there's still a good chance your butterfly is sticking. The next time this happens, hook up your notebook and see what the TPS is indicating before shutting down. Then manually close the throttle with your hand and see if it differs much...shouldn't be more than .5 or so. Also shut the motor off, work the throttle, then check TPS still with the motor still off.

#3, I'm not sure what you mean by not seeing 'engine control.'

[elise/europa]

Dave,

1- The pulse was already at 7000. But it is not clear now what is doing what, and the help is not fully clear.

2- 3- I am not able to see all active parameter at the moment, and I can not see TPS.