EFI Tunning Tips Here

[robains]

Not sure if this is the correct thread to add onto ... but ... I will anyway.

Was doing some more EFI tuning tonight after I made some VANOS changes:

Exhaust Cam RPM Limit - 4700 now 5000
Exhaust Cam TPS Limit - 30 now 33

I did some data logging see graph here. The highlighted bubble covers the new exhaust cam switchover. As you can see at the 5000 rpm switchover point the AFR takes a nose dive into the 10.8 range then recovers back to 12.3 and works down to 11.1 (3rd gear followed by shift into 4th gear).

Boost drops as expected. EGT is good. But I'm thinking I need to adjust the Fuel Injection map over AFR's dip - or do I? Maybe this is normal for VVT? Any hints or suggestions are welcome.

On final note, since I'll be at the track this weekend I figure I need a race map (running 100 octane). I set RPM Cutoff limit to 10,100 and the Throttle Cutoff Limit to 100 -- assuming this allows fuel to flow and cool the pistons during deceleration. It did provide some massively impressive flames -- I thought the car was on fire at first the flame glow at night was that big. It does indeed drop EGT temps very rapidly.

Rob.

[turbophil]

Hey Rob,

The fuel flux is pretty normal at cam shift. Every flash I've seen and just about all my tunes have an AFR spike/valley at the cam switch. With a bit of tinkering you could get that transition ironed out. At that amplitude, the cam shift should be very smooth and seamless. Long and short of it, is that a small spike in the AFR like the one you have there is OK and to fine tune it more is just for sport, IMO... I attached a pic of a few AFRs. You can see the spike/dips in the two Katana tunes, which are very well ironed out and then you can see a dip from one of my maps with the old MP62 boat anchor blower... You can see how my dip/spike was bigger than Charlie's, but it was still a seamless transition despite the AFR amplitude...
Believe me, when creating the initial map, the dip/spike was massive and the cam transition was garbled until I got the map built. Once O got the dip down to a point or so, the cam change cleans up and then I move on to other things. Anymore I switch stuff on the car frequently enough that I'll have to redo the thing (map) before long so I don't get too caught up on that last 5% of the tune...

The comment I'm struggling slightly with is the bit about RPM cut-off? Which one are you referring to? If you're talking about the rev limiter cut off, it's good practice to make your spark limiter somewhere between 8,000 and 8,500 and fuel cut 100rpms above that. You'll end up "bouncing" off your spark limiter that way unless you just rev the tar out of it in first or mis-shift, you may hit the fuel cut as well... Since you're putting down some good power now, and running a stockish head, I'd recommend dropping your spark limiter down to 8-8100 or so. The M62 tends to hit peak torque around 7200 anyway, so you may as well start shifting sooner or you could end up eating your valves like I and several others have done from being way to rev happy...

Best,

Phil

[robains]

Thanks for the info Phil, great stuff, I'm having a blast just in case anyone was wondering.

No, no, no on the RPM Cut-off -- this is under Accel / Decel - Constants. In Kris's doc he made some notes about setting these values very high which would basically permit more fuel into the chamber during deceleration, which in turns cools the pistons and in turns lowers my EGT. Nothing to do with Spark. Oh, and it also produces one hell of a flame show -- serious, at night it's enough to make folks try and stop me and let me know my car is on fire Not exactly sure how the pOlice would feel about it, or a fire truck for that matter. Anyway, I'm sure you've seen this from race cars at the track, long lazy flame when they decel and downshift.

I don't feel any issues with the car, only shows on the data logging. Might try to reduce the dip a little - will just have to see how it goes. Love this stuff!

Rob.

[turbophil]

Ah, Ok... that's makes more sense... I also just realized that I forgot to attach the pic I referred to... THat's what happens when I post late at night... Will try to remember to post the pick when I'm back in the shop...

Cheers,

Phil

[RCHAD]

Originally Posted by Kris from DRS

The AC turn-on and fan control will both be resolved in the new firmware currently being worked on. It is almost done...very close.

This was an unknown issue at the time of R&D b/c the early DWB controller systems were only fitted to cars that did not have AC and had manually controlled cooling fans (track only cars).

thanks,
Kris

is this firmware almost done yet?? would like to have it installed before summer

[RCHAD]

next question
i went to mmp for the first time yesterday, i found the cam switchover to be a little angry. is there a way to switch softer at first then phase it in??
thanks
chad

[robains]

If you change the cam switchover, you might also need to adjust fuel map.

I'm running 5000/35 for both street and track and that seems pretty good so far.

I'm about to experiment with it's "learning" ability now that I have data logging in the EFI unit.

I think Phil is taking ALL of Kris's time right now hehe

[RCHAD]

thanks, ill try that...im running 4600/60 for street mostly...my car is turbo though not s/c.
Kris if u are following...please post any progress info on ac/fans issue.
thanks

[robains]

RCHAD,

Ok, I spent a few hours today working with the EFI Data logging and I must say that I'm seriously IMPRESSED!! For those of us without Phil or Kris's level of tuning skill and/or regular access to a dyno, the EFI Data logging module is worth it!!! A must have IMHO.

I'll post more charts from my data results from my logging sessions showing before and after "learned" adjustments including RPM climb duration from 3K to 8K. This will be crossed referenced with both EFI data logging and my RacePak data logging.

I believe Kris provides a pretty good Lambda Setpoints (I didn't change them as they seemed to be what a FI car would want AFRs to be at) -- Turbo might be different from SC as load/rpm variances. But, assuming you have good Lambda Setpoints the learning process seems to be pretty darn bang on correct after corrections are applied to the fuel map (this is a VERY easy process).

If you plan to change your cam switchover rpms/degrees then the Data Logging/learning capabilities are a must have tool as it can adjust your fuel map to optimize your cam switchover.

I'm still giddy about EFI's data logging -- makes it so VERY easy to realize gains from just about any modifications and/or weather difference. I plan to run the same learning process on the track next month to see if track conditions require adjustments beyond agressive street conditions (I'm sure there will be some minor changes here and there in the fuel map).

I'm so happy with this EFI setup -- the "coming soon" firmware will just be more icing on the cake.

Rob.

P.S. will post the AFR/RPM/Load/IAT charts later this week

[RCHAD]

sounds great!
how much was the datalogger module???

[robains]

around $500

[turbophil]

Gents!

Must be Christmas again, as the new Firmware just came to town.... And it's really cool

I hope to be doing testing it this weekend and will report back

Have a great day,

Phil

[robains]

F'in A!! Wooohoooo!

[turbophil]

+1

[Dave]

Originally Posted by robains

F'in A!! Wooohoooo!

I second that motion

[Kris from DRS]

That's right, the most recent tests results are very satisfying.

The new firmware enables use of the 3D map / table for VVTi (cam timing). Uses load vs. RPM. Breakpoints will match the fuel and spark maps by default, but resolution can be modified on-the-fly if needed.

You simply set the Setpoint (target cam postion) in the given loadsites and the VVTi responds accordingly.

Initial impressions on this particular engine are smoother overall response throughout the rev range in all conditions (boost or not), better control of the torque curve, and improved transition through the Switch-Over function.

On the SC test car it was able to provide a method of boost control to some extent (more on this later). More importantly we were able to fine tune the Race Piper Cams as we saw fit.

Also, in the new firmware is enabled Fan Control with voltage and temp limits. The output can be assigned to be triggered via Water Temp (for radiator), Oil Temp (for oil cooler radiator fans), or Air Temp (for intercooler fans).

The first cars eligible to receive the new firmware are NA and SC applications. Turbo systems will get it soon.

All current customers running EFI stand-alones, DBW and Non-DBW (except turbo applications at this time) can upgrade to this new firmware without any hardware changes. The process is basically loading the update (it takes about 30 sec). However, the maps do require a minor conversion. We will come up w/an easy method for converting the maps soon.

Phil is going to do some back up testing and when I get a chance to compare his data to mine we'll make the release official.

More to come soon.

Kris

[robains]

See you next Friday Kris

[cstetter]

Originally Posted by Kris from DRS

That's right, the most recent tests results are very satisfying.

The new firmware enables use of the 3D map / table for VVTi (cam timing). Uses load vs. RPM. Breakpoints will match the fuel and spark maps by default, but resolution can be modified on-the-fly if needed.

You simply set the Setpoint (target cam postion) in the given loadsites and the VVTi responds accordingly.

Initial impressions on this particular engine are smoother overall response throughout the rev range in all conditions (boost or not), better control of the torque curve, and improved transition through the Switch-Over function.

On the SC test car it was able to provide a method of boost control to some extent (more on this later). More importantly we were able to fine tune the Race Piper Cams as we saw fit.

Also, in the new firmware is enabled Fan Control with voltage and temp limits. The output can be assigned to be triggered via Water Temp (for radiator), Oil Temp (for oil cooler radiator fans), or Air Temp (for intercooler fans).

The first cars eligible to receive the new firmware are NA and SC applications. Turbo systems will get it soon.

All current customers running EFI stand-alones, DBW and Non-DBW (except turbo applications at this time) can upgrade to this new firmware without any hardware changes. The process is basically loading the update (it takes about 30 sec). However, the maps do require a minor conversion. We will come up w/an easy method for converting the maps soon.

Phil is going to do some back up testing and when I get a chance to compare his data to mine we'll make the release official.

More to come soon.

Kris

I really want this on my FF275 with EFI - I had it on the track today for the first time and the responsiveness and throttle linearity left something to be desired. Any ETA for the turbo version and would Forcedfed (Casey) be the right person to install it for me?

Thanks!

[Kris from DRS]

Originally Posted by cstetter

I really want this on my FF275 with EFI - I had it on the track today for the first time and the responsiveness and throttle linearity left something to be desired. Any ETA for the turbo version and would Forcedfed (Casey) be the right person to install it for me?

Thanks!

The turbo applications are using certain internal control strategies of the ECU differently then the current version of the new firmware is set up for on the SC or NA maps. It will be available very soon for your car. I have already been in contact with Casey and he will be able to update your system.

thanks,
Kris

[RCHAD]

eta for turbo???
also is the a/c issue solved??
and does this require any re-pinning of the ecu??
thanks Kris