It's Here! Radium Plug-n-Play EMS for Elise/Exige - Page 4 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 
LotusTalk.com is the premier Lotus Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-22-2012, 09:27 AM   #61 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Noxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Sherbrooke, Canada
Posts: 354
Anyone update please ?

First impressions ??
Noxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-22-2012, 02:01 PM   #62 (permalink)
Registered User
 
wek120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 513
Just got it all wired and started up. Having a few issues getting it all set up and checking everything though, as it is running really rich.

Great overall quality, though I would suggest Radium have the interior AEM laser cut mounting plate as a separate option, as it seems like a lot of wasted effort and money for something that won't even be seen. Would also be nice if there was a little more instruction on getting the initial maps loaded and tweaked a bit (for those of use trying to drive it to a tuner for final tuning )

Last edited by wek120; 11-25-2012 at 03:43 PM.
wek120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 09:49 PM   #63 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Lotus F1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Fantasy Island New York
Posts: 4,966
The startup maps are really horribly rich. Could not get the car to really run at all with either maps. Kit itself looks very high quality.. The initial maps Ugh!
Lotus F1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 09:59 PM   #64 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Variance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Burlington, KY
Posts: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus F1 View Post
The startup maps are really horribly rich. Could not get the car to really run at all with either maps. Kit itself looks very high quality.. The initial maps Ugh!
Aren't the default maps in any standalone EMS supposed to be rich? They're only there to keep the engine from eating itself before/while tuning...
__________________
-Ken
2005 Elise, LRG on Ruby, Sport & Touring, Car #60 in the US
Variance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 10:49 PM   #65 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Lotus F1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Fantasy Island New York
Posts: 4,966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Variance View Post
Aren't the default maps in any standalone EMS supposed to be rich? They're only there to keep the engine from eating itself before/while tuning...
The main issue for me is the two base map types are stock or turbo with all the optional sensors ie. MAP Speed Density and Wideband O2. There is no turbo with stock sensors map. So I really had no start-up map that works correctly. Even with using the injector corrections I still had to spend lots of time changing each fuel cell just to get it to idle.
Lotus F1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 12:51 AM   #66 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Variance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Burlington, KY
Posts: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus F1 View Post
The main issue for me is the two base map types are stock or turbo with all the optional sensors ie. MAP Speed Density and Wideband O2. There is no turbo with stock sensors map. So I really had no start-up map that works correctly. Even with using the injector corrections I still had to spend lots of time changing each fuel cell just to get it to idle.
Ah, I see; I didn't realize that there weren't multiple maps to account for the different types of air metering.
__________________
-Ken
2005 Elise, LRG on Ruby, Sport & Touring, Car #60 in the US
Variance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 03:07 AM   #67 (permalink)
Registered User
 
wek120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus F1 View Post
The startup maps are really horribly rich.
Can anyone else confirm this? I too am having the same problem, and even after going through the setup wizard and changing as many sensors as I could find, it is still running at 10.4 a/f.

I would think the initial maps would use stock sensors, and based on the upgrades, users can go back in and change them based on what they have done.

Now I'm in the same boat, unless someone out there has a map with all the corrections? Maybe Radium would be nice enough to provide one?
wek120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 08:48 AM   #68 (permalink)
Elise Driver
 
Radium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 366
The hardest part of programming ECUs is getting the setup complete; wiring, crank/cam sensor synchronized, sensor calibrations, etc. This is already provided in our startup maps. Different injectors, fuel pressure, load sensor, cams, compression ratio, turbo, supercharger, fuel type, etc. will all greatly effect the tune. Unfortunately we cannot provide a startup calibration for every situation. We are not in the business of providing final maps as there is a large liability associated with remote tuning.

Also, keep in mind that cold startup will be inherently rich to resist poor fuel atomization and prevent stalling. As the engine warms up you will start seeing stoich AFRs reading at idle (see warmup enrichment table). However, it is a slippery slope. An engine will idle all day long at 12:1 but will start idle surging at ~16:1.

Your tuner should only have minimal effort, ie: fuel tuning, spark advance, cam timing, boost control, and whatever custom ancillary functions that you would like to add into the system.
Radium is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 09:59 AM   #69 (permalink)
Registered User
 
wek120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 513
Wouldn't that be the point of starting with a map based off all the stock sensors? At least then, people know the exact changes they made from a stock setup. Providing a custom map is one thing, but the startup map should be close enough to run the motor near a tolerable a/f after a few sensor setups.
wek120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 10:55 AM   #70 (permalink)
Elise Driver
 
Radium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by wek120 View Post
Wouldn't that be the point of starting with a map based off all the stock sensors?
The base naturally aspirated 2ZZ-GE map uses:
-factory MAF sensor
-factory O2 sensor
-factory ignition coils
-factory 330cc/min injectors
-factory cam sensor
-factory crank sensor
-factory ABS sensor
-factory coolant temp sensor
-factory VVT solenoid
-factory VVL solenoid
-factory knock sensor
-factory air box solenoid valve
-factory low speed fan relay
-factory high speed fan relay

The base supercharged 2ZZ-GE map uses:
-factory TMAP sensor
-factory O2 sensor
-factory ignition coils
-factory 440cc/min injectors
-factory cam sensor
-factory crank sensor
-factory ABS sensor
-factory coolant temp sensor
-factory VVT solenoid
-factory VVL solenoid
-factory knock sensor
-factory air box solenoid valve
-factory low speed fan relay
-factory high speed fan relay

The base turbocharged 2ZZ-GE map uses:
-AEM 3.5Bar MAP sensor
-AEM wideband O2 sensor
-GM intake air temperature sensor
-Radium 630cc/min injectors
-factory ignition coils
-factory cam sensor
-factory crank sensor
-factory ABS sensor
-factory coolant temp sensor
-factory VVT solenoid
-factory VVL solenoid
-factory knock sensor
-factory air box solenoid valve
-factory low speed fan relay
-factory high speed fan relay

In all of the above cases, the factory ECU takes care of everything else including: IACV, A/C request, A/C compressor, fuel tank sender, tire pressure, vapor pressure, fuel pump, CAN bus, DBW throttle, oil pressure, etc.

The Radium turbo startup map does not use the factory MAF sensor or the factory injectors because they will easily get maxxed out with the flow of a turbocharger. The aftermarket wideband because it is most commonly used with a custom turbo setup.

Last edited by Radium; 11-27-2012 at 03:13 PM.
Radium is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 12:41 PM   #71 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Lotus F1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Fantasy Island New York
Posts: 4,966
Radium many people will be upgrading to this ecu will have a turbo already using factory sensors. I think it would be helpful to have had a 3rd option which is turbo map ie fuel/ignition with factory o2 and MAF. Injectors size differences are easily corrected with the wizard so variances are easily corrected for that. However wide band O2 and MAP can not be converted to factory O2, MAF easily.

There should be...

N/A Stock Map
Turbo Map
Turbo Map w/wide band, IAT, MAP

This would get just about everyone at least up and running.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using AutoGuide.Com Free App
Lotus F1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 02:45 PM   #72 (permalink)
Registered User
 
wek120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 513
Anyone else having the same rich map problem as well, on MAF or MAP setup? Ive got mine set up on MAP with all the same sensors as the turbo map short of the AEM iat (BOE iat here) and 630cc injectors (550cc RC here), yet it's still incredibly rich.
Just want to confirm its the map and not a sensor issue...

Last edited by wek120; 11-28-2012 at 02:54 AM.
wek120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 11:55 PM   #73 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Lotus F1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Fantasy Island New York
Posts: 4,966
Quote:
Originally Posted by wek120 View Post
Anyone else having the same rich map problem as well, on MAF or MAP setup? Ive got mine set up on MAP with all the same sensors as the turbo map short of the AEM iat and 630cc injectors (550cc RC here), yet it's still incredibly rich.
Just want to confirm its the map and not a sensor issue...
Mmm I would think you would need to have the IAT also hooked up if using MAP because your disconnecting your MAF

I don't think you can use MAP and MAF sensors at the same time. It's either MAP and IAT and disconnect you MAF or use all MAF.

Last edited by Lotus F1; 11-28-2012 at 12:29 AM.
Lotus F1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2012, 04:44 PM   #74 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Westrock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 2,879
You, the community, should make your maps available and describe the various mods/conditions of the map. That way others that come along can use your maps as templates. As Radium said its a risk, but isn't that part of the purpose of a user modifiable map?

I would never expect those that are the business of making money to release their maps, but I would hope that the community would be willing to help each other.
Westrock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2012, 11:27 PM   #75 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Lotus F1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Fantasy Island New York
Posts: 4,966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westrock View Post
You, the community, should make your maps available and describe the various mods/conditions of the map. That way others that come along can use your maps as templates. As Radium said its a risk, but isn't that part of the purpose of a user modifiable map?

I would never expect those that are the business of making money to release their maps, but I would hope that the community would be willing to help each other.
Dude we are talking about start up maps and moving the car a little not a final tune. No one is asking for what you imply
Lotus F1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 01:17 PM   #76 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Westrock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 2,879
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus F1 View Post
Dude we are talking about start up maps and moving the car a little not a final tune. No one is asking for what you imply
You are asking for a map that makes a good starting point, which you said you could not get from the manufacturer. And now both of you have had to seperatly make a useable map. If someone were to make a better starting map and make it available to public domain then the next people would have a better baseline.

How is that not what I expressed?
Westrock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 03:00 PM   #77 (permalink)
Registered User
 
wek120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 513
What is the harm in throwing up a good map? Since everyone's setup is going to be slightly different (anywhere from completely different setups to even a slight difference in individual sensor readings), a map that works flawlessly on one persons car is not going to work absolutely flawlessly on another car. BUT it would run enough to get it moving (to a tuner where you get what you pay for).

So sharing maps wouldn't be a terrible idea just to get the cars running, since you are still going to have to go pay a tuner to get it to that same level of quality as the person's car who paid for it in the first place. Make sense?


As for my progress, for some reason the engine is detonating as soon as it blips in with even a little boost (1psi) yet from the data log, A/F is reading ~12:1 right up till detonation.
wek120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 03:32 PM   #78 (permalink)
Elise Driver
 
Radium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by wek120 View Post
for some reason the engine is detonating as soon as it blips in with even a little boost (1psi) yet from the data log, A/F is reading ~12:1 right up till detonation.
Wes,

Since you wired in your own switch, make sure you do not have your Power Select accidentally activated . It could either be accidentally flipped "ON" or you could of mistakenly purchased a N.C. (normally closed) switch.

If you open the Tuner software, go to the Setup tab and find the "Options - Power Select Switch" dialog box. This function is preset for race gas by pulling 5.1% fuel out (Alt Fuel Trim) and adding 2.1 degrees of ignition timing advance (Alt Spark Trim). However, this feature is ONLY active if your switch is grounded. View the "PWR Select (ALT)" channel dialog box to see its current status. Note: in the start up calibration file, it activates above -1 psi (engine load).

RADIUM Engineering
Radium is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 03:50 PM   #79 (permalink)
Registered User
 
wek120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 513
It detonates with power select both on and off I didn't want to mess with the timing myself, but it sounds like that would be the only cause, as the a/f is fine the entire time.

Edit: looks like a/f suddenly drops right before the detonation, as if there is a fuel cut or something the instant it goes into boost? Grrr! If the base map was fine, then at least I would know it's a problem specific to my setup. Killin me here!

Last edited by wek120; 12-02-2012 at 04:51 PM.
wek120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 04:02 PM   #80 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Lotus F1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Fantasy Island New York
Posts: 4,966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westrock View Post
I would never expect those that are the business of making money to release their maps, but I would hope that the community would be willing to help each other.
I was referring to this in particular.

I wasn't suggesting they need to release final tune maps they may have. Just a few variations that cover a few configurations so that most can start and drive it mildly to the tuner. There really should be a "all factory sensor" Turbo map to get people started and to a tuner. I think that's pretty basic.
Lotus F1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community > Lotus Discussions > Powertrain (Engine, Transmission, etc) > Engine Control (ECU)



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.