Question for CharlieX about TRD High compressin piston

[dleogml]

I found NA tuning parts for 2ZZ-GE engine from Japan.

TRD(Toyota Racing Development) supplies engine modification parts for 2ZZ.

ENGINE -2ZZ-GE-

About link shows forged piston and other parts.


I have a question for CharlieX who are known to the King of Lotus ECU.

Does TRD High compression piston need ECU modification?
If necessary, can you mod ECU for this?


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High output in a compact package. TRD has fine-tuned the 2ZZ-GE, Toyota's flagship engine, to be used for lightweight sports cars. TRD has a lineup of high compression pistons and other engine parts to achieve a sense of breathtaking acceleration like that of sports car engines.
High compression pistons
●Changed to aluminum forged pistons, which are stronger than standard aluminum cast pistons.
●The skirts of the compression pistons are treated with molybdenum, as opposed to the steel plating on the surfaces of standard pistons.
●Doing this ensures excellent slideability and lubrication in matching with the aluminum cylinder, which improves the initial break-in period. ●Lightening of all areas including the piston pin has resulted in achieving a single piston weight of about 70 grams, improving the cam-follow in the high-rev region.
●By changing the shape of the piston head, the high compression ratio (11.5) of the 2ZZ-GE engine has been improved even further to 13.0. This high compression ratio improves torque and response throughout the entire range.

High Compression Piston& Piston Ring Set

* Both torque and output is improved across the entire range.
* Maximum power is improved by about 15 kW (20 ps), and maximum torque is improved by about 20 N*m (2 kgf*m). (Measurements are TRD bench test values. Actual improvement differs depending on vehicle.)
Note: Above specifications are our development values with all parts listed below installed.

High Compression Piston/Piston head appearance(TRD logo grooved on top)

(LH)Original piston/ Steel plating finish
(RH)TRD piston/ Molybdenum processed finish



ENGINE -2ZZ-GE-
This list is based on Japanese model and shown in Japanese domestic price.
Description Part No. Code Qty required
/engine List Price(JPY)
/pce. Remarks
Piston, w/pin 13101-TF200 C 4 40, 000 High compression piston(Compression ratio:Approx. 13.0),
Forged type, 70g lighter than OE. Must use in set
Ring set, piston 13011-TF200 C 4 5, 000 For 13101-TF200
Sports air filter MS155-00009 (17801-ZE200) D 1 9, 000 COROLLA FIELDER(ZZE123G),
COROLLA RUNX/ALLEX(ZZE123), WiLL VS(ZZE128)
17801-ZT300 D 1 9, 000 CELICA(ZZT231)
Exhaust manifold ※1 17100-ZE200 C 1 100, 000 00.8-03.3 ※2 4-2-1 type
High response muffler Ver.S 17400-ZE211 W 1 Discontinued COROLLA FIELDER(ZZE123G 00.8-04.4)
17400-ZE230 W 1 59, 000 COROLLA FIELDER(ZZE123G 04.4-)
17400-ZE220 C 1 52, 000 COROLLA RUNX, ALLEX(ZZE123 01.1-04.4)
17400-ZE240 C 1 59, 000 COROLLA RUNX, ALLEX(ZZE123 04.4-)
17400-ZT301 C 1 85, 000 CELICA(ZZT231)
Flywheel S/A 13405-TF200 C 1 58, 000 Weight 4, 400g
※※Max. output increased 15kW and max. torque increased 20Nm when installing piston, piston ring, sports air filter, exhaust manifold and high response muffler Ver. S all together at the same time.
(Measurements are TRD bench test values. Actual improvement differs depending on vehicle.)
Attention 1: Exhaust manifold is suiatble to vehicle with 2ZZ-GE engine installed such like Celica, Corolla Fielder, Corolla Runx/Alex and Will VS.
Attention 2: Original cylinder head form was changed on 03.3. Vehicle on 03.3 are devided into two different types, one before the change and one after the change. Please make sure the application with below instruction.
■How to make sure the applicable type
1:Engine No.
MT model: Applicable to engine before "00118565"
AT model: Applicable to engine before "00118569"
※Engine No. is curved on cylinder back right upper side of clutch housing

2:Heat insulator shape
Applicable to engine that heat insulator has no cuts around cylinder head.
※Please use mirror to make sure if there is cuts or not, as it's impossible to see it directly.

[Ade]

You might get more joy from MM

[GTsRasta]

The crazy guys from Puerto Rico are supposedly running them fine on the stock Celica GTS ECU:

Deercelica's Magic 200WHP+ 2zz-ge Project - NewCelica.org Forum

Originally Posted by Redliner9k

Incorrect, the stock ECU will run fine with 12.3:1 pistons... hell it works on TRD 13.1:0.

Lots of bench racing going on in this thread...

Not sure what would happen on the Lotus ECU though...but in any event, a custom tune for these pistons > stock ECU as far as gains go. From what I hear, it will take a decent amount of work to drop in these "drop in" pistons. You might as well get a piggyback or standalone to make the most of the gains.

[cpforyou]

I doubt you can run 91 or 93 pump gas on 13.0:1 compression pistons. It will be a pain to tune.

At least for the Honda world, working with H22As (Prelude), and B18Cs in the day, it was a pain in the @$$ to even tune engines that had over 12.0:1 compression.

One of my Honda engines had 11.5:1 compression pistons on it, but with the right headwork, we got it to just under 12.0:1 compression. The tuner had to dump quite a bit of gas into it to keep it from pinging on 91 pump has. With 93 pump has, the car ran beautifully, but unfortunately, no 93 in California.

Very few people in the Honda world are running close to 13.0:1 in a street car, and if they are, they are stuck having to fill up all the time at 100 octane gas stations.

[mp3moose]

Wow, 13:1 is quite high. You're adding a lot of extra heat, though I bet the stock ecu would still work. But you wouldn't see any real gains.

[akandok]

13.1? Isn't that detonation area?

[GTsRasta]

Sorry to say, but this topic has been discussed before on websites with more 2zz experience. You guys have to do a search on non-Lotus websites, and expand your level of knowledge:

Trd 13.1 Pistons - Forums Index

yes I talked to redliner and he said they did it and it was fine, he told me that I should do it w/out a problem
I was in Japan 2 weeks ago and asked Brashboy.net mechanic cause I went a visited thier shop
they told me I'll be fine, but I forgot to ask him what octane gas they have in Tokyo.

They only have 2 grades of gas there at ther gas stations

regular and hi-octane thats it, well also diesel.
but it didnt say on the pump what octane level they have.

Also redliner told me that they were using 93 ocatne w/TRD pistons in Pureto Rico.
how could they run them w/stock ecu and have no detonation, knock etc...
I dont believe they're lying?

I am not sayng that you guys are all wrong I just want to hear what people have to say about it.

here is the info from trdjapan about thier TRD pistions:

●Changed to aluminum forged pistons, which are stronger than standard aluminum cast pistons.
●The skirts of the compression pistons are treated with molybdenum, as opposed to the steel plating on the surfaces of standard pistons.
●Doing this ensures excellent slideability and lubrication in matching with the aluminum cylinder, which improves the initial break-in period. ●Lightening of all areas including the piston pin has resulted in achieving a single piston weight of about 70 grams, improving the cam-follow in the high-rev region.
●By changing the shape of the piston head, the high compression ratio (11.5) of the 2ZZ-GE engine has been improved even further to 13.0. This high compression ratio improves torque and response throughout the entire range.

This is what I am going to do. I am going to ask my wife to call TRD since she is Japanese and ask them about what gas octane # in Japan they recomend

[Kris from DRS]

Remember that 13:1 CR is only the static number, not the dynamic number. Cam timing also has a large affect on cylinder pressure. Usually we increase the static CR to make up for the typical losses as a result of larger duration cams. There are also many other variables to consider, but I won't get into that right now. The results can be rewarding if you get the balance right, and that comes down to simply what you are setting the car up for. Please contact us if you're interested in learning more about what we can offer. Our experience is beyond the scope of only ECU tuning.

[kortik]

its possible but w/a good really good tune
like 50hr or so of tunning probably

[Kris from DRS]

Slightly off topic, but related to pistons nonetheless. We (DRS) have drop in forged pistons for the 2ZZ available. We are working on a variety of CR options for a number of engine configurations. Please call or email sales@racesolutions.com for more info.

[vyuen]

No, no ECU mods are required to run the TRD high comp pistons in our cars. The reason I know is this mod was done by Lotus themselves before and the relearning feature of the ECU knows how to adjust for the compression/timing differences.

[GTsRasta]

Got any links? I'm curious to know if this is true.

[Casey]

wow....everyone here makes tuning high compression NA motors for 91 octane seem like the impossible task.
With proper tuning I have made many 12.5-13.0 compression motors run quite well on 91 octane gas....and it doesn't require "50 hours" of tuning.