STAND ALONE ENGINE MANAGEMENT - LotusTalk

docmanslaughter · 08-27-2009, 11:34 PM

Anyone know anything about Stand alone Engine Management? Are they reliable/durable? Do they screw up the engine? Do they suck up a lot of gas? Thanks.

Bender Rodríguez · 08-28-2009, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docmanslaughter

Anyone know anything about Stand alone Engine Management? Are they reliable/durable? Do they screw up the engine? Do they suck up a lot of gas? Thanks.

I've got about 3-4k miles on my Hydra with no issues. In my opinion there can be quite a bit of tuning involved but if done correctly there really is no real worry about harming the engine. It depends on the exact one but allot of them even have features to cut off the ignition in an over boost scenario or under excessive knock. Again it's all your work to set this up properly and if you paying someone that can get pricy but again done correctly I don't see an issue.

elise/europa · 08-28-2009, 06:28 AM

on the lotus engine, it is a big tendency to use EFI from DRS. With this system, the seller will be probably able to supply right from the box an adequate program for your set-up, and supply a program for your future tune.

going with something where you are alone could be a bad decision.

screw-up the engine? since you are able to do anything, YOU can screw up. The ECU is just doing what you are asking.

Fuel? Depends of your set-up, but they will never as good as OEM, my guess.

turbophil · 08-28-2009, 07:40 AM

There's two pretty comprehensive threads about the EFI system for the Lotus. Works just fine. Most would only conider an aftermarket EMS if they're adding FI or build something radical NA...

As Elise/Europa said, they'll just do what you tell them to do...

Regards,

Phil

choi0706 · 08-29-2009, 08:55 PM

any standalone works as long as it can control VVTi.. motec is probably the most comprehensive, for track use..

Kris from DRS · 09-13-2009, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choi0706

any standalone works as long as it can control VVTi.. motec is probably the most comprehensive, for track use..

on the high-end (EFI, Pectel, Motec, etc...) they all work similarly. From my experience using these systems one manufacture might have a feature over the next one and vice versa.

Kris from DRS · 09-13-2009, 04:57 PM

as already mentioned here, and on other threads, the main advantage you will gain by using the EFI system is convenience.

we package the systems w/ base maps for your engine, sensors calibrated, and the firmware is pre-configured as well. no modifications to existing sensors or triggers on your engine, and very easy to revert to stock if needed.

it's about as easy as it can possibly get (relative to what it is). with other systems you are basically starting from scratch.

there is also a growing support network where ideas and maps can all be shared for the EFI powered cars on these forums.

use this link to read more about the system features and contact our dealers Dynamic Racing Solutions - Complete ECU Control for the Lotus Elise and Exige S

charliex · 09-13-2009, 05:40 PM

They all vary in features and abilities, the best advice i could give is use the one that the person doing the tuning or work understands the best (so long as it has the base feature set).

beyond a few features here and there, they are all basically the same, its the software that makes the biggest differences, so long as the base hardware can actually run the engine.

Personally I'd avoid piggybacks though, though some ecu's
are crossovers between standalone and piggyback in that they can perform both functions.

The motecs have the best software and support i think, and since i write tuning and engine management software for standalone, piggybacks and OEM ecu's, i think i've got a good handle on it. Of course motec spent millions developing their stuff, so i don't feel too bad about it.

vvtli control, decent sized maps, lots of configurable maps, basically getting as close to the oem ecu as possible.

25psi_Elise_Killer · 09-13-2009, 05:59 PM

standalone won't pass emissions in Kalifornia.

charliex · 09-13-2009, 06:04 PM

No standalone I'm aware of will legally pass anywhere in the USA (unless its on a car thats exempt from emissions/clean air act/obdii ) Most of them don't have the software to run the OBDII or properly pass the emissions standards (not the 'sniffer' test)

Its a federal law, not a state one.

Of course just as in CA you can fanagle your way around it , but its not legal.

holmz · 09-13-2009, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliex

No standalone I'm aware of will legally pass anywhere in the USA (unless its on a car thats exempt from emissions/clean air act/obdii ) Most of them don't have the software to run the OBDII or properly pass the emissions standards (not the 'sniffer' test)

Its a federal law, not a state one.

Of course just as in CA you can fanagle your way around it , but its not legal.

I am confused...
They do not pass...:
1) Just because hey are stand-alone?
2) Because they produce more emissions?

Demonized · 09-13-2009, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by holmz

I am confused...
They do not pass...:
1) Just because hey are stand-alone?
2) Because they produce more emissions?

Because they are not OBD-II compliant.

holmz · 09-13-2009, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demonized

Because they are not OBD-II compliant.

So would they them be legal on cars that do not use OBD-II...
(Admittedly I don't know if there are any such cars, but surely some have to be just CAN bus without OBD-II???)

choi0706 · 09-14-2009, 05:41 AM

obd2 is the standard..

08-27-2009, 11:34 PM	#1 (permalink)
docmanslaughter Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 10	STAND ALONE ENGINE MANAGEMENT Anyone know anything about Stand alone Engine Management? Are they reliable/durable? Do they screw up the engine? Do they suck up a lot of gas? Thanks.

08-28-2009, 06:28 AM	#3 (permalink)
elise/europa Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: montreal Posts: 348	on the lotus engine, it is a big tendency to use EFI from DRS. With this system, the seller will be probably able to supply right from the box an adequate program for your set-up, and supply a program for your future tune. going with something where you are alone could be a bad decision. screw-up the engine? since you are able to do anything, YOU can screw up. The ECU is just doing what you are asking. Fuel? Depends of your set-up, but they will never as good as OEM, my guess. __________________ ____________________________________ Elise 2006, white, Katana Europa 1969, green, H22A, 194 whp, 1550# CONFIGTECH.ca / Solidworks

08-28-2009, 07:40 AM	#4 (permalink)
turbophil Plug Whisperer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kansas City/ Overland Park Posts: 2,544 Images: 6	There's two pretty comprehensive threads about the EFI system for the Lotus. Works just fine. Most would only conider an aftermarket EMS if they're adding FI or build something radical NA... As Elise/Europa said, they'll just do what you tell them to do... Regards, Phil __________________ \| '05 GG LSS Elise \| A Track Chariot \| BOE ClamHinge \| BOE TVS SuperCharger 280whp/180wtq \| EFI Standalone Engine Management \| BOE Fuel Surge System \| BOE Lotus Tow Package See my car at BOE Fabrication: www.boefabrication.com *----->Last Updated: 9/25/2009* If something ain't worth doing right, it ain't worth doing... *Whoever thought working on a Lotus is hard, clearly hasn't tried it. Pick up a wrench and get some grease under your nails*

08-29-2009, 08:55 PM	#5 (permalink)
choi0706 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Houston/Austin Posts: 4,228	any standalone works as long as it can control VVTi.. motec is probably the most comprehensive, for track use.. __________________ Jay-05' ST, HT, Touring Red Rally Ready

09-13-2009, 04:57 PM	#7 (permalink)
Kris from DRS Dynamic Racing Solutions Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: La Habra CA Posts: 343	as already mentioned here, and on other threads, the main advantage you will gain by using the EFI system is convenience. we package the systems w/ base maps for your engine, sensors calibrated, and the firmware is pre-configured as well. no modifications to existing sensors or triggers on your engine, and very easy to revert to stock if needed. it's about as easy as it can possibly get (relative to what it is). with other systems you are basically starting from scratch. there is also a growing support network where ideas and maps can all be shared for the EFI powered cars on these forums. use this link to read more about the system features and contact our dealers Dynamic Racing Solutions - Complete ECU Control for the Lotus Elise and Exige S __________________ Motorsport Components and Expert Service. Complete Lotus maintenance, installations, track preparation and specialty services.

09-13-2009, 05:40 PM	#8 (permalink)
charliex OSX Black hat Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Las Vegas , NV Posts: 9,935	They all vary in features and abilities, the best advice i could give is use the one that the person doing the tuning or work understands the best (so long as it has the base feature set). beyond a few features here and there, they are all basically the same, its the software that makes the biggest differences, so long as the base hardware can actually run the engine. Personally I'd avoid piggybacks though, though some ecu's are crossovers between standalone and piggyback in that they can perform both functions. The motecs have the best software and support i think, and since i write tuning and engine management software for standalone, piggybacks and OEM ecu's, i think i've got a good handle on it. Of course motec spent millions developing their stuff, so i don't feel too bad about it. vvtli control, decent sized maps, lots of configurable maps, basically getting as close to the oem ecu as possible. __________________ Black Exige S - http://goth.am 265 Mule / Elan M100.ECU Tuning, http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39660 West Coast Lotus Meet - Las Vegas - November 6-9 2009 http://www.westcoastlotus.com/

09-13-2009, 05:59 PM	#9 (permalink)
25psi_Elise_Killer Drunk on alcohol Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 3,130	standalone won't pass emissions in Kalifornia. __________________ '06 Evo IX Stage 1E Tuned by Road Race Engineering(Stock:turbo,intake,internals,ECU) Walbro 255lph fuel pump,RC Engineering1000cc Injectors, AVO exhaust,RRE dyno tune flash, Dejon Tool boost controller (325whp @ 22PSI Costco 91 octane, 353whp @ 25psi on 100 octane, 383whp @30psi on E85) , Zeitronix wideband,Zeitronix Ethanol Content Analyzer, Defi BF gauges, Stoptech rotors, SS brakelines,Graphic/Interior Design,Brand Identities,Invitations www.nomadic-nomads.com

09-13-2009, 06:04 PM	#10 (permalink)
charliex OSX Black hat Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Las Vegas , NV Posts: 9,935	No standalone I'm aware of will legally pass anywhere in the USA (unless its on a car thats exempt from emissions/clean air act/obdii ) Most of them don't have the software to run the OBDII or properly pass the emissions standards (not the 'sniffer' test) Its a federal law, not a state one. Of course just as in CA you can fanagle your way around it , but its not legal. __________________ Black Exige S - http://goth.am 265 Mule / Elan M100.ECU Tuning, http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39660 West Coast Lotus Meet - Las Vegas - November 6-9 2009 http://www.westcoastlotus.com/

09-14-2009, 05:41 AM	#14 (permalink)
choi0706 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Houston/Austin Posts: 4,228	obd2 is the standard.. __________________ Jay-05' ST, HT, Touring Red Rally Ready

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